project-navigation
Personal tools

Author Topic: Grenade launcher, its ammo and article  (Read 6253 times)

Offline Charlie

  • Rookie
  • ***
  • Posts: 45
    • View Profile
Grenade launcher, its ammo and article
« on: January 01, 2013, 07:10:19 pm »
The grenade launcher comes with the following ammo according to the equip-soldier screen:
9x25mm HIT Grenades
16x25mm IC Grenades
20x25mm Flechette Grenades


I have no idea what HIT, IC or Flechette mean, so I visit the UFOpaedia.


The article on 25mm Flechette Grenades says they should be loaded into an HPGL Grenade Launcher. What's HPGL? No explanation in the UFOpaedia or on Google.


Next up, the 25mm HIT Grenade article. "High Impulse Thermobaric" explained, good.


Next article, the 25mm IC Grenade. For consistency with the HIT article, I would rephrase the first sentence to:
"This is a box of 6 25mm IC (incendiary) grenades."


Last, the Grenade Launcher article. No explanation of HPGL. I assume it means High Power Grenade Launcher, but then why write High Power Grenade Launcher Grenade Launcher. The 3D model of the ammo in this article shows three ammo units, but they are all HIT Grenades. Would be nice if it showed models of IC and Flechette Grenades too, and without clipping them (they dont fit in the box) [size=78%]http://i.imgur.com/hnA4k.png[/size]


I click on Statistics and cycle through the "With:" thing, and see "25mm PB Grenades". What's a PB Grenade?

Offline DarkRain

  • Project Coder
  • Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 746
    • View Profile
Re: Grenade launcher, its ammo and article
« Reply #1 on: January 09, 2013, 06:12:15 pm »
I click on Statistics and cycle through the "With:" thing, and see "25mm PB Grenades". What's a PB Grenade?
You might have already found what is this about, but that means the game is leaking info, if the stats for the Plasma Burst grenades are listed before they are researched.

Offline Anarch Cassius

  • Squad Leader
  • ****
  • Posts: 176
    • View Profile
Re: Grenade launcher, its ammo and article
« Reply #2 on: January 09, 2013, 10:00:31 pm »
I think right now weapons just tell you about all their ammos reseaerched or not.

Offline homunculus

  • Sergeant
  • *****
  • Posts: 380
    • View Profile
Re: Grenade launcher, its ammo and article
« Reply #3 on: January 09, 2013, 10:20:41 pm »
reminds me of this children's joke:
1) say 'particle beam' ten times.
2) what are PB grenades?

edit: i think i understood why people got confused in the subsequent posts, therfore some explanation might be needed here (and please consider that this edit was not here at the time the responses were posted, so no need to judge these posters by that).
the original children's joke goes like this:
1) say 'new york' ten times.
2) what is the capital of usa?
and even if people know what the capital really is, after saying 'new york' ten times there is a chance they will answer 'new york'.
which would produce the response:
3) really?
meaning that when particle beam is the main weapon, PB is easier to associate with particle beam rather than plasma burst.
the alternative and considerably more wicked adults joke could certainly be:
1) say 'washington' ten times.
2) what is the capital of usa?
wicked because the other person would have no chance not to look stupid.
adults joke because children would rather have the other person answer wrong.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2013, 06:36:58 pm by homunculus »

Offline Sarin

  • Sergeant
  • *****
  • Posts: 339
    • View Profile
Re: Grenade launcher, its ammo and article
« Reply #4 on: January 10, 2013, 02:37:19 am »
particle beam grenades don't make sense.

But UFOpaedia is a mess. Inconsistent naming is one, but there are some factual errors, even with supposed material development, the calibers for example don't make sense. 20mm for a mobile sniper rifle does not make sense, and even of the recoil compensators were so advanced to allow it, the effect would be much greater, and there would be a choice of using explosive munitions...even smaller .50 BMG caliber has today effective HEIAP ammunition available. 25mm for standalone grenade launcher is on the other hand too small caliber, 40mm is most common caliber used nowadays, 25mm is used mostly for long range or automatic grenade launchers.

Offline DarkRain

  • Project Coder
  • Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 746
    • View Profile
Re: Grenade launcher, its ammo and article
« Reply #5 on: January 10, 2013, 02:49:42 am »

Offline Sarin

  • Sergeant
  • *****
  • Posts: 339
    • View Profile
Re: Grenade launcher, its ammo and article
« Reply #6 on: January 10, 2013, 04:20:02 am »
I know, I was reacting to homunculus' post.

Offline homunculus

  • Sergeant
  • *****
  • Posts: 380
    • View Profile
Re: Grenade launcher, its ammo and article
« Reply #7 on: January 10, 2013, 08:52:32 am »
particle beam grenades don't make sense.
doesn't matter if it makes sense or not, the association is still quite strong once particle beam becomes the main weapon.

i see it as a case of naming the plasma grenades before particle beam was discovered, and the name PB being used for historical reasons.

Offline geever

  • Project Coder
  • PHALANX Commander
  • ***
  • Posts: 2555
    • View Profile
Re: Grenade launcher, its ammo and article
« Reply #8 on: January 10, 2013, 09:46:14 am »
...40mm is most common caliber used nowadays...

But the game takes place in 2084....

-geever

Offline Charlie

  • Rookie
  • ***
  • Posts: 45
    • View Profile
Re: Grenade launcher, its ammo and article
« Reply #9 on: January 10, 2013, 03:45:17 pm »

reminds me of this children's joke:
1) say 'particle beam' ten times.
2) what are PB grenades?
Reminds me of this adult's joke where instead of being respectful and polite, a contemptuous guy quotes something that hasn't been said and still gets it wrong.

Offline Sarin

  • Sergeant
  • *****
  • Posts: 339
    • View Profile
Re: Grenade launcher, its ammo and article
« Reply #10 on: January 10, 2013, 09:31:42 pm »
But the game takes place in 2084....

-geever

That's not the problem, several calibers still in use today like 7.62x54R, 9x19mm parabellum, .45 ACP, .30-06, .303 (last two are only in civilian use AFAIK) are over hundred years old. 70 years from now, most of today's modern calibers will be in general use, jsut upgraded for better powder formula.

Design and performance in game suggest a heavy GL, so 40mm or similar would be in order. After all, in grenades especially, greater volume is really important.

Offline Sandro

  • Squad Leader
  • ****
  • Posts: 240
  • Maintenance guy for UFO:AI 3D engine
    • View Profile
Re: Grenade launcher, its ammo and article
« Reply #11 on: January 11, 2013, 01:04:18 pm »
I do agree; solid (or liquid) chemical explosives are not going to be much more powerful in future, so if you want an explosive effect of modern 40mm grenade in 2084, you will have to stick with that caliber.

Offline homunculus

  • Sergeant
  • *****
  • Posts: 380
    • View Profile
Re: Grenade launcher, its ammo and article
« Reply #12 on: January 12, 2013, 10:42:20 pm »
if they have better explosives then are the hand grenades also smaller and lighter in ufo:ai?
Reminds me of this adult's joke where instead of being respectful and polite, a contemptuous guy quotes something that hasn't been said and still gets it wrong.
btw, where exactly did i get it wrong? would not have posted if i hadn't known it is plasma burst, to begin with.

Offline Sarin

  • Sergeant
  • *****
  • Posts: 339
    • View Profile
Re: Grenade launcher, its ammo and article
« Reply #13 on: January 13, 2013, 04:32:40 am »
if they have better explosives then are the hand grenades also smaller and lighter in ufo:ai?

And fun fact, they aren't. UFO:AI grenades weigh 0.4 kg, same as M67 grenade, currently in general use in US military.

Offline Charlie

  • Rookie
  • ***
  • Posts: 45
    • View Profile
Re: Grenade launcher, its ammo and article
« Reply #14 on: January 13, 2013, 03:28:11 pm »
While discussing and working on the more difficult to fix items, the easier ones (explanation of HPHG, etc) could be fixed in the meanwhile...