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Author Topic: New encumbrance/TU system  (Read 12934 times)

Offline kurja

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New encumbrance/TU system
« on: December 25, 2012, 01:17:29 pm »
It's awesome that now there is a working encumbrance system! However, now it works by reducing the number of TUs, which brings a couple problems. One is that it doesn't seem realistic how certain actions become entirely prohibited, for an example firing a machinegun in full auto mode. Other one is how encumbrance is checked at the change of turn in battlescape; if at the change of turn a soldier is encumbered he thus can not use the medkit in his hand, but if he drops the medkit and in the next turn picks it up, he is not encumbered and now can use the medkit although carrying exactly the same amount of weight .

I don't think it would be a priority to make encumbrance-checking continuous, but I do think that the system needs to be changed so that being encumbered does not reduce the number of TUs but instead increases the TU cost  of any action (or only movement? like being wounded on the legs does). Carrying a heavy load does in reality infer with one's ability to perform any action, but I don't think encumbrance should *prevent* any action, like firing certain weapons.

Thoughts?

Offline Quizer

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Re: New encumbrance/TU system
« Reply #1 on: December 26, 2012, 01:12:41 am »
The encumbrance system is pretty unbalanced as it is. Personally, I think it's too abrupt - instead of having three states "light", "normal" and "encumbered", there should be more of a sliding scale. Either have it be more finely grained, with more states such as "lightly encumbered", "heavily encumbered", etc.; or just have it calculate your available TUs from the fraction of "current load" divided by "carrying capacity".

I think the latter solution in particular would be great. It would force the player to really weigh the TU cost of each item they want to bring along in a combat mission - should you bring that one extra reload, or have +1 TU instead?

Offline Wolls

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Re: New encumbrance/TU system
« Reply #2 on: December 26, 2012, 10:05:36 pm »
Quote:
Where ENCUMBRANCE_MODIFIER is 1 for 'bonus' stage, 0.7 for 'normal' stage and 0.4 for 'penalty' stage.

So, well there are three encumbrance stages there are really only two relevant classes.  Bonus and normal.

Bonus <--- Normal ---> Penalty

Accepting normal stage as starting point the encumbrance system actually increases the number of TUs.


The weights of weapons and armours were all recently balanced with the normal stage in mind.  That is, your average soldier can equip the heaviest armours and weapons, when and as you get access to them (presuming stat growth as game progresses).  So game-wise, there is no reason to enter the third stage.  Sure, there's allowance for three classes and hopefully beyond 2.5 dev, there will be 3 classes but ATM the first two are the only functional ones.

I think the latter solution in particular would be great.
Does this particular include any particulars?  ;D

Offline GPS51

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Re: New encumbrance/TU system
« Reply #3 on: January 01, 2013, 10:32:06 pm »
Anyone know how this relates to trying to heal units? I was amused to find that equiping armor and any weapon on units makes them unable to use a medkit off the start. I was thinking maybe a pistol or plasma blade, but nope, everything is heavy enough (in my testing) to cause them to be unable to heal anyone. I loaded up an old mid-late game save and...yup my buffed troops are about 50/50 on being able to use healing kits (most are sporting lvl 2 armor). I don't like my troops dying on me and I'm willing to heal them up etc but I'm not even getting that chance. So I'm looking for help on how to equip troops light enough to enable to heal each other. On a side note was the dmg output by alien weaponry buffed a lot? I took 1 hit from a hovernet to a unit in lvl 1 armor and took 95dmg. I haven't played much in the last 3 months but I don't recall ALL the alien weaponry being so deadly to my troops or that all the aliens reaction fire hits me before I take my turn but they walk up to my squad set to reaction fire and start doing melee dmg while my troops with TU's saved sit there >.>
« Last Edit: January 01, 2013, 10:41:22 pm by GPS51 »

Offline Quizer

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Re: New encumbrance/TU system
« Reply #4 on: January 01, 2013, 10:42:08 pm »
When the encumbrance system came out, the starting strength of units got buffed. All soldiers created prior to that date are going to have horrifically subpar strength values. New hires' strength stats at the start of the game range from 30~39 or thereabouts. That's enough to wear armor, a heavy weapon, a medikit and maybe a reload or two, if you're on the high end of the scale, and stay inside the 50% needed to get your normal complement of TUs. If you're willing to settle for a non-heavy weapon, you get to load up on grenades and all that other good stuff. If you go without armor and don't take a heavy weapon, you can manage to stay inside 20% of your weight allowance and get bonus TUs. It's worth seriously considering whether it's worth sacrificing protection for mobility or vice versa.

You might want to start a new playthrough, hire new soldiers in your existing one, or hack your soldier's strength stats to reflect what they should be like - the way to do the latter is in one of these threads.

Offline GPS51

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Re: New encumbrance/TU system
« Reply #5 on: January 01, 2013, 10:55:35 pm »
Ahha, I knew there was something I must have been missing, I'll just restart :)

Offline Quizer

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Re: New encumbrance/TU system
« Reply #6 on: January 01, 2013, 11:13:12 pm »
And yeah, aliens hit harder than they did in 2.4. Expect to lose more units / have a harder time playing a zero casualties game. Your armored soldiers might survive two plasma pistol shots, but will take ~2/3rds HP damage from plasma rifle shots, and within a few months of game time most aliens will be packing a plasma blaster that is capable of one-shotting your units with 8 TU reaction shots. Seriously, consider leaving that bulky armor at home. When I got the estate map (which is a small, tower-like house with multiple stories infested with aliens, with balconies and windows providing vantage points), the first time I had an armored team and it took like eight tries to get through it without losing someone. In my more recent playthrough, I sent in a team of unarmored soldiers taking advantage of bonus TUs and made it through in one try.

Offline GPS51

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Re: New encumbrance/TU system
« Reply #7 on: January 03, 2013, 08:07:33 pm »
Since this thread has been so helpful (sorry for turning it into a q/a), is there a way to get accurate %'s on shots fired. I've watched my sniper rifles at 50-60% blazing away and hitting at 1/10 shots. This simply a guestimation of odds to hit or old code?

Offline H-Hour

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Re: New encumbrance/TU system
« Reply #8 on: January 03, 2013, 08:25:46 pm »
Just a guestimation.

Offline Quizer

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Re: New encumbrance/TU system
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2013, 12:12:46 am »
Is it intended to be just a guesstimation, or is there a reason it can't accurately reflect the actual hit chance?

Offline H-Hour

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Re: New encumbrance/TU system
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2013, 12:38:50 am »
I'm not familiar with the code, but I would guess that getting the "true" hit chance (or very close to it) would be computationally intensive (ie - slow).

Offline Sandro

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Re: New encumbrance/TU system
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2013, 12:54:40 am »
Not computationally intensive, but very complex to code. And there are so many parts of engine requiring maintenance ...

Offline GPS51

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Re: New encumbrance/TU system
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2013, 05:30:29 pm »
Hehe instead of new code can I just send my snipers back to shooting school? ;)

Offline Sarin

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Re: New encumbrance/TU system
« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2013, 04:56:22 pm »
I'll necro this a bit to continue discussion about the system.

I've reached a point in my campaign where I got access to power armor, and balancing loads has become a nightmare. I did a lot of savescumming to get decent soldiers and kept them alive throughout the campaign, so my team is probably the best you can have at this stage, and even the best soldiers are struggling with decent load with power armor. Throughout my team I have soldiers with 40-49 strength, gained over course of almost 50 missions, and even my best assault soldier can carry at most his assault rifle, single reload, couple of grenades, plasma blade and medikit. I know the armor is supposed to be a choice only for some soldiers, but it's virtually unusable except for elite troops with assault rifle. Any heavier weapon is impossible to carry. Heavy weapon soldiers can't even carry a good loadout with nanocomposite armor at this stage. Fielding a second squad seems impossible for me as the new soldiers won't be able to carry a loadout that would give them a chance in combat against enemies with particle weapons and heavy needlers.

So what's your opinion, should the system be refined, or is this okay?

Offline H-Hour

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Re: New encumbrance/TU system
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2013, 05:30:48 pm »
Throughout my team I have soldiers with 40-49 strength, gained over course of almost 50 missions

Do you mean that you've reached power armour and you've only fought 50 missions total? Or that your top soldiers have fought on about 50 missions (out of a larger total) at this stage?