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Author Topic: A facelift for footsteps/terrain  (Read 12197 times)

Offline DexCisco

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A facelift for footsteps/terrain
« on: November 21, 2012, 01:06:14 am »
While some of the footstep sounds are OK, many of them sound like someone whacking the ground with a stick.  There is also no variation in the step sounds, so they are all "clunk, clunk, clunk, clunk".  It would also be nice if the sounds could be standardized a bit more in terms of length and the general footfall sound so they blend together better.  I have been looking at the terrain.ufo file, as well as the team_*.ufos.  The team ufos have lists of sound files for wounding and dying sounds for the various units.  I think the same thing could be done to the terrain.ufo, allowing each terrain to have multiple footstep sounds, perhaps with alternate sounds for crouched walking, heavy steps (like Ortnoks, Power Armor), spiders, tracked,  wheeled (UGVs) etc. as needed as well as grenade bounce sounds.  The code should be very similar to how the team defs are parsed and used.  Terrain.ufo also needs new entries for the added textures, as well as bouncefractions set in each.

I don't know that much C++, but I think I may be able to figure out well enough how to reuse the existing code to create the new structure.  It will still be a lot of work though.  Is anyone else working on something like this?

Offline Crystan

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Re: A facelift for footsteps/terrain
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2012, 12:36:03 pm »
While some of the footstep sounds are OK, many of them sound like someone whacking the ground with a stick.  There is also no variation in the step sounds, so they are all "clunk, clunk, clunk, clunk".  It would also be nice if the sounds could be standardized a bit more in terms of length and the general footfall sound so they blend together better.  I have been looking at the terrain.ufo file, as well as the team_*.ufos.  The team ufos have lists of sound files for wounding and dying sounds for the various units.  I think the same thing could be done to the terrain.ufo, allowing each terrain to have multiple footstep sounds, perhaps with alternate sounds for crouched walking, heavy steps (like Ortnoks, Power Armor), spiders, tracked,  wheeled (UGVs) etc. as needed as well as grenade bounce sounds.  The code should be very similar to how the team defs are parsed and used.  Terrain.ufo also needs new entries for the added textures, as well as bouncefractions set in each.

I don't know that much C++, but I think I may be able to figure out well enough how to reuse the existing code to create the new structure.  It will still be a lot of work though.  Is anyone else working on something like this?

Mattn is already working on something like this (i hope), based on my idea: http://ufoai.org/wiki/Proposals/Sound/Footstep_Sounds
Its also noted in my Get rid of the Silence thread. Team based footsteps are also already in the code. Ill create new footsteps as soon as everything of the stuff is ingame and working.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2012, 12:40:58 pm by Crystan »

Offline DexCisco

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Re: A facelift for footsteps/terrain
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2012, 10:33:42 pm »
I thought about categorizing the textures too.  It would make it more maintainable, but it is a bigger change and involves changes in more places in the code.  But I suppose if you are going to do it, do it right.  I was thinking something more like this:

terraintype grass
{
   bouncefraction 1.0
   sounds {
      footsteps {
         normal (
            "footsteps/grass"
            "footsteps/grass1"
            "footsteps/grass2"
         )
         crouched (
            ...
         )
         heavy (
            ...
         )
         spider (
            ...
         )
         wheeled (
         )
         ...
         
      }
      bounce (
         "weapons/grenade-bounce-grass"
      )
      
   }
   textures(
      "tex_nature/grass001"
      "tex_nature/grass"
      ...
   )
}

Offline H-Hour

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Re: A facelift for footsteps/terrain
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2012, 10:50:45 pm »
The best place to put stuff like this is in the Discussion page for the Proposal in the wiki. The forums drift into obscurity after a while.

Offline DexCisco

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Re: A facelift for footsteps/terrain
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2012, 12:39:34 am »
OK.  Moved it there (didn't know I could edit the wiki), but there doesn't seem to be any link to the discussion page unless you are in edit mode.

Offline H-Hour

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Re: A facelift for footsteps/terrain
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2012, 12:59:59 am »
You must be logged in to get a link to the Discussion page.

Offline Crystan

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Re: A facelift for footsteps/terrain
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2012, 04:13:08 pm »
It would make it more maintainable...
Thats the reason why i even haven't thought about touching the current footstep sounds "assignment". As long as i haven't add the footstep sound to every single textures, iam fine.

Offline DexCisco

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Re: A facelift for footsteps/terrain
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2012, 11:17:57 pm »
I am going to start playing with this as best as I can.  If there is anything you can think of to add to the terrain.ufo structure, let me know.

Offline DexCisco

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Re: A facelift for footsteps/terrain
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2012, 05:28:26 am »
I just committed some changes I made.  It is my first time so I hope I didn't screw anything up.

I parsed every texture out of the .map files and stored them in a local database, then went through and visually categorized every one of them (>1000) according to the sound they should make.  I then assigned one footstep sound as well as a bouncefraction to each category, then used that info to dump a complete terrain.ufo (now 10x larger).  I can use the same data to create a new, more compact terrain.ufo that will allow for multiple footstep sounds, etc. as I have proposed, but that is a ways off yet.

I also created some new footstep sounds for wood, carpet, metal grates (new category) and grass.  I also modified the hard-coded footstep volume up a bit.  It was at 20%, so the sounds would have to be recorded quite loud to be heard.  I upped it to 40%.
I also added movement sounds for bloodspiders and hovernets, as the team defs allow for an overridden constant footstep sound for them.

It is not a finished product, but hopefully better than silence.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 05:31:39 am by DexCisco »

Offline H-Hour

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Re: A facelift for footsteps/terrain
« Reply #9 on: November 29, 2012, 10:40:38 am »
DexCisco: can you make a patch and upload it to our patch tracker? Then someone can look at it, let you know what needs to be changed (if anything) and then apply it to master when it's approved?

Also, can you share the code you used to parse the textures? These little bits of code are useful for future revisions should we need to make them.

Offline Crystan

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Re: A facelift for footsteps/terrain
« Reply #10 on: November 29, 2012, 01:46:28 pm »
I just committed some changes I made.  It is my first time so I hope I didn't screw anything up.

I parsed every texture out of the .map files and stored them in a local database, then went through and visually categorized every one of them (>1000) according to the sound they should make.  I then assigned one footstep sound as well as a bouncefraction to each category, then used that info to dump a complete terrain.ufo (now 10x larger).  I can use the same data to create a new, more compact terrain.ufo that will allow for multiple footstep sounds, etc. as I have proposed, but that is a ways off yet.
Inform me as soon as the stuff is available in the nightly builds.

I also created some new footstep sounds for wood, carpet, metal grates (new category) and grass.
Please upload your sounds here first, so i can make a quality check. And actually i wanted to make new footstep sounds, as i already mention in my last post. ;)
« Last Edit: November 29, 2012, 05:18:29 pm by Crystan »

Offline DexCisco

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Re: A facelift for footsteps/terrain
« Reply #11 on: November 30, 2012, 12:54:40 am »
It is pointless to upload a diff if the sound files are not in place, and I don't know how to handle that.  Crystan, you wanted to see the sound files first anyway, so here they are.  Feel free to add them or replace them as you see fit.

Terrain.ufo is completely new
move.ogg is the Hovernet move sound I put in sounds\aliens\hovernet\
move2.ogg is the bloodspider move sound from sounds\aliens\bloodspider\
The team_aliens.ufo adds these sounds
The rest of the sounds are from sounds\footsteps
« Last Edit: November 30, 2012, 01:02:04 am by DexCisco »

Offline DexCisco

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Re: A facelift for footsteps/terrain
« Reply #12 on: November 30, 2012, 01:10:08 am »
OK, here is the diff.  I can't get my SourceForge password until tomorrow.

Offline Crystan

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Re: A facelift for footsteps/terrain
« Reply #13 on: November 30, 2012, 11:34:31 am »
Oh you just assigned the missing footstep sounds to textures which haven't had a footstep sound using the current footstep system? Well i thought you added a system we were talking about earlier, because adding footstep sounds using the current system is actually a waste of time. ;) (it was also my leverage to adding a new footstep sound system :P) Anyway we cant use the sounds you uploaded for the following reasons:

move.ogg is the Hovernet move sound I put in sounds\aliens\hovernet\ - the hovernet got already a new (better) "footstep sound", just havent uploaded it yet because mattns code havent worked at that time.

move2.ogg is the bloodspider move sound from sounds\aliens\bloodspider\ - if i understood you right, you found that sound in the bloodspider folder? That cannot be the case. This is the original bloodspider move sound i made and is still the only footstep sound found in the bloodspider folder: http://ufoai.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=ufoai/ufoai;a=blob;f=base/sound/aliens/bloodspider/move.ogg

grate1.ogg - doesnt match the quality standards
grass5.ogg - doesnt match the quality standards

wood5.ogg - is fine in quality but it wont fit to the other wood footsteps (ill make completly new ones, dont worry, until the original concept i had i mentioned is ingame)

I can remove and exchange the stuff with the other sounds, so we can still make use of your work - if you want.

« Last Edit: November 30, 2012, 11:44:27 am by Crystan »

Offline DexCisco

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Re: A facelift for footsteps/terrain
« Reply #14 on: December 01, 2012, 05:12:53 am »
Quote
Oh you just assigned the missing footstep sounds to textures which haven't had a footstep sound using the current footstep system?  Well i thought you added a system we were talking about earlier,

I am a long ways off from attempting to implement that.

Quote
because adding footstep sounds using the current system is actually a waste of time

Well, there are sounds for every texture now.   :)  I did it programmatically, so now that the textures are categorized, I can generate the terrain.ufo in seconds.

Quote
the hovernet got already a new (better) "footstep sound", just havent uploaded it yet because mattns code havent worked at that time.

So upload that sucker.  I would like to hear it.

Quote
if i understood you right, you found that sound in the bloodspider folder?

No, I created it.  I didn't find the one you made until I was looking for a place to put mine.  I haven't tested out yours in game yet, but mine is better than spiders with two feet, which is what it was.

Quote
grate1.ogg - doesnt match the quality standards
grass5.ogg - doesnt match the quality standards

By quality standards do you mean frequency and kbps or you just don't like it?  I had to back and forth between programs a bit because I only have one program that will save .ogg files, but I like some of the editing tools in the other better.

Quote
I can remove and exchange the stuff with the other sounds, so we can still make use of your work - if you want.

Do what you feel best.  I like it the way it is, personally, at least better than missing sounds and some of the clicky footsteps.  This part of the game is your baby, so it is your choice how you use it.