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Author Topic: I <3 Smoke Grenades  (Read 15015 times)

Offline Anarch Cassius

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I <3 Smoke Grenades
« on: October 30, 2012, 10:17:18 pm »
There are certain maps where even attempting them felt like slaughter. Troops get off the dropship and get gunned down from five angles immediately. You know what I'm talking about. You wonder why they pilot couldn't find another place to land.

For these situations Smoke Grenades are amazing at giving you the cover you need to establish a good position. My initial attempts to use them involved trying to block enemy LOS by putting them in the cloud but it's actually often better to cloak your troops directly if the terrain is very open.

Offline H-Hour

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Re: I <3 Smoke Grenades
« Reply #1 on: October 30, 2012, 10:46:03 pm »
+1

Smoke grenades are a bit of a paradigm shifter and I'm surprised I haven't heard more talk about them since they were implemented.

Offline Triaxx2

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Re: I <3 Smoke Grenades
« Reply #2 on: October 30, 2012, 11:16:07 pm »
I forget to use them early on because the first generation of weapons take so many TU to fire so there's nothing to spare between movement and firing and reaction fire. And later I don't because Lasers don't fire through them. Haven't finished researching plasma weapons yet, so it might be more useful then.

Frankly? I find Flashbangs to be more useful. Lob that in front of the alien and they aren't shooting at all. They seem inaccurate enough already to make it pointless to lower it further.

Of course this is all based on 2.4 so...

Offline Anarch Cassius

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Re: I <3 Smoke Grenades
« Reply #3 on: October 30, 2012, 11:23:28 pm »
Flashbangs are great but you need to be able to hit an alien. They are perfect for live capture. But on the Tower and cold Industrial Zones you are often facing aliens in a good position with a long way to go for you to get to good cover.

You simply can't get a flashbang to the enemy at that distance, moveover they are often coming from many angles so flashbanging or cloud covering one firing group isn't enough. So you take some pot shots then lay down a cloud and move your troops in to the center. The aliens will vent their frustration on civilians but they may advance to less defended positions to try and get at you. Next round you can keep going to real cover and begin the fight in earnest.

This is in 2.5 so the firing costs are a bit different. It's 1 to pull the grenade from holster and 8 to toss a smoke grenade. This lines up with quick attacks so you can spend 1/3 TU picking off lightly covered aliens and 2/3 getting to the cloud center. Also I don't bother with reaction fire when employing this tactic. You won't be able to see them or vice versa anyway if it goes right. Troops just shoot, one tosses down the cloud and they all run like madmen to the center with their guard down.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2012, 11:27:50 pm by Anarch Cassius »

Offline Histidine

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Re: I <3 Smoke Grenades
« Reply #4 on: November 01, 2012, 05:13:19 am »
I'd have used them more if they didn't murder my poor, poor FPS every time I popped one.

But yes, they are singularly awesome. I no longer have to put my troops' lives in the hands of the RNG and its one-hit-kill particle beam rifles!

On that tangential note, do flashbangs work in 2.5-dev? I couldn't tell what they do the few times I tried them.

Offline H-Hour

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Re: I <3 Smoke Grenades
« Reply #5 on: November 01, 2012, 11:10:02 am »
On that tangential note, do flashbangs work in 2.5-dev? I couldn't tell what they do the few times I tried them.

Flashbangs reduce TU instead of HP. When used successfully they can prevent reaction fire.

Offline Triaxx2

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Re: I <3 Smoke Grenades
« Reply #6 on: November 01, 2012, 08:49:05 pm »
I admit that the only maps I use flashbangs on are those small maps where they're very effective. For the industrial and industrial cold, I've never had the problem with not dying because the quarters are so cramped in the first place, that the aliens can't really hurt me anyway, or they're so far away they can't actually hit me even with open lines of sight in the second.

Offline Anarch Cassius

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Re: I <3 Smoke Grenades
« Reply #7 on: November 02, 2012, 12:24:53 am »
Industrial Cold is cramped? The fact that it's not cramped, but very expansive and open with larger buildings seems to be what makes it different from the cramped temperate industrial zone.

Of course you're playing 2.4 aren't you? When I switched one of the biggest differences in 2.5 was that the aliens are now spawning all over the map in well-entrenched groups. Before they would usually appear in one cluster without cover.

Flashbangs don't seem to do friendly fire. I've accidently hit my people several times with no loss in TU.

Offline H-Hour

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Re: I <3 Smoke Grenades
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2012, 01:09:46 am »
Are your soldiers wearing Power Armour by any chance? Power Armour protects against this damage type. I think I wrote about it in the research text, but honestly can't remember I've edited so many of those things.

Offline Anarch Cassius

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Re: I <3 Smoke Grenades
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2012, 01:33:31 am »
Nah, that would make sense. As is our first set of nanocarbon armor is a few hours from being finished.

I'm thinking it may be the fact they are still active is meaning they aren't affected but I haven't looked at any code. They may be

Offline DarkRain

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Re: I <3 Smoke Grenades
« Reply #10 on: November 02, 2012, 01:51:23 am »
In fact, the code specifically prevents flashbangs from affecting teammates.

Offline Triaxx2

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Re: I <3 Smoke Grenades
« Reply #11 on: November 02, 2012, 02:04:13 am »
Yes, 2.4, because it seems silly to have to redownload the game every night. I'm going to give it a go tonight though.

No, I was referring to Industrial Cold as having the aliens pop up so far away they can't actually shoot me. Oh, they fire. But I have to close way in before they can actually hit me, and since I move cover to cover, it turns out that they still have a hard time hitting me.

It's also a little cramped because I only ever see it with a Harvester on it, so there's a big chunk of space taken up essentially by a building.

Speaking of, is it possible to have a landed model of a fighter? Or does it only exist as a crashed ship?

Offline ShipIt

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Re: I <3 Smoke Grenades
« Reply #12 on: November 02, 2012, 07:27:31 am »
In 2.5-dev all maps use 'randomspawn' by default, which isnĀ“t the case in 2.4.

Speaking of, is it possible to have a landed model of a fighter? Or does it only exist as a crashed ship?

You can see a list of maps where this would be possible here.

Offline Triaxx2

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Re: I <3 Smoke Grenades
« Reply #13 on: November 02, 2012, 07:48:57 pm »
Ah, thanks.

Okay, so I'm still seeing no benefit to smoke grenades. I tried to put one near one of my troops so she wouldn't get shot long enough to get up close to stop her bleeding out, and it rolled past once and bounced past the second time. And it didn't matter either time, the alien just walked through the cloud and blasted her, and then she bled out because of the new garbage damage mechanic.

Offline H-Hour

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Re: I <3 Smoke Grenades
« Reply #14 on: November 02, 2012, 10:01:24 pm »
And it didn't matter either time, the alien just walked through the cloud and blasted her, and then she bled out because of the new garbage damage mechanic.

Aliens can walk through smoke clouds. Humans can too. The smoke clouds are made of smoke.