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Author Topic: Thanks for making this game  (Read 4912 times)

Offline lefty

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Thanks for making this game
« on: October 23, 2012, 03:09:11 pm »
I've being playing 2.5 dev and would like to say it's absolutely brilliant. What makes it partically good is the huge amount of scenes and the variaty of weapons with different weakness and strengths.
The one thing that spoiled it is the "reaction fire".
The way that I would expect rection fire to work is, when you walk out behind a wall where the enemy is waiting they shoot you.
But what happens is the reaction fire only triggers after you try to shoot (right after you've selected the fire mode). You can walk into a room full of enemy and nothing will happen as long as you don't try to shoot.
Anyways, this is a dev version I suppose there are expected to be bugs. It's looking like this game will be even better than the origonal once it's finished.

Offline geever

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Re: Thanks for making this game
« Reply #1 on: October 23, 2012, 03:12:30 pm »
You should be able to select reaction firemode without actually shooting.

-geever

Offline ShipIt

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Re: Thanks for making this game
« Reply #2 on: October 23, 2012, 04:10:45 pm »
The base for reaction fire is the number of TUs spent in sight of the enemy. So, if the alien holds a weapon that needs 8 TUs to fire it, in order to trigger reaction fire your soldier needs to spend >8 TUs (no matter which action) while in the Line of Sight of this particular alien. If your soldiers tries to fire his weapon and the firemode uses more than 8 TUs, the alien shoots first.

Best way to avoid this is just shooting them in the back, like a wimp.  ;)

Also, you can choose the firemode your soldier should use in the checkbox of the firemode menu. This is not done automagically.

And, a secondary weapon in the left hand cannot be used for reaction fire.

Offline lefty

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Re: Thanks for making this game
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2012, 05:01:52 pm »
Yeah, I know how reaction fire works. I'm just saying that the way it's implemented makes no sense. It should be triggered when you walk out from behind cover, not just after you try to fire.

Offline geever

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Re: Thanks for making this game
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2012, 05:35:32 pm »
I think it makes sense. You notice the alien, start firing "immediately" but shooting takes like 8 TUs, alien can fire in 5 TUs, then it wil fire first.

-geever

Offline Deloused

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Re: Thanks for making this game
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2012, 06:22:28 pm »
If the alien shot before your reaction fire, it would kind of make the reaction fire obsolete, I mean, it is supposed to be a defensive move, not a retaliation.

Offline lefty

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Re: Thanks for making this game
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2012, 06:37:49 pm »
If the alien shot before your reaction fire, it would kind of make the reaction fire obsolete, I mean, it is supposed to be a defensive move, not a retaliation.
No, I'm talking about the aliens reaction fire, not my reation fire.
I can enter a room full of aliens and walk out again without recieving any reaction fire from the aliens, because it's only triggered when I fire.

Offline Histidine

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Re: Thanks for making this game
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2012, 07:14:34 pm »
IMO instant reaction fire on turning a corner would, without any other modifications, massively bog down close combat (or even open combat, if the enemy has any accurate weapons). Turn a corner or open a door? Get shot dead!
A couple of things would help it work much better:

- A way to "peek" around corners without completely exposing yourself. Goggles already do this, but they may be on the short list for nerfing, and they shouldn't be mandatory items anyway.
- Being able to suppress defenders around a corner/from cover (one way would be the "blind fire" mechanic some shooters have coupled with a suppression system), and/or throw grenades/flashbangs from around corners effectively.

Optimally the aliens (with their 'orrible, 'orrible AI) would need to be able to do the same as well.

The current system isn't particularly realistic or even believable (dealing with aliens in close quarters consists of running up beside them and shooting/stabbing them in the side)... but it kind of works.

Offline lefty

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Re: Thanks for making this game
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2012, 07:23:27 pm »
IMO instant reaction fire on turning a corner would, without any other modifications, massively bog down close combat (or even open combat, if the enemy has any accurate weapons). Turn a corner or open a door? Get shot dead!
I don't know if you've ever played Jagged Allience, but the way that it works there is that the enemy doesn't have any reaction fire if they have just moved, so if you hear them moving about then you know that you can turn the corner without being hit.
Also, the enemy's reaction is not 100% guaranteed. The first time you pop around a corner there is less chance of being hit, but if you try it a second time, you probably are going to get whacked.

Offline Triaxx2

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Re: Thanks for making this game
« Reply #9 on: October 24, 2012, 12:49:23 am »
The only reason goggles are mandatory at the moment is because there's nothing else to go into the slot.

Offline Anarch Cassius

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Re: Thanks for making this game
« Reply #10 on: October 24, 2012, 12:52:21 am »
I would also like to say thank you. I've been wanting a game like this for ages. I love old tactical games and am glad to have a good one with multiplayer that's totally customizable.

As for reaction fire. I just got 2.5 after 2.4 randomly closed on me after I hadn't saved my campaign for a bit so I don't know what's changed fully yet. But in 2.4 reaction fire definettely not just triggered after firing. What ShipIt said makes perfect sense.

Every movement point you spend once they spot you adds on to their reaction shot. Once you've spent more movement then their gun takes they fire. I've often been shot at approaching an alien and the aliens have done the most damage and gotten their only kills against me via reaction shots. I actually think this is a great system since it's not an instant shot once they see you and the faster their weapon and further you have to close the more shots they take.

Blind fire suppressing vs taking aim at targets that enter LOS seems the difference between setting the reaction shot for quick shot vs aimed shot. Same goes on offense, the quicker the attack you make, the less reaction the enemy gets. This is also nice since it gives a use for quicker weapons like pistols and knives, and a reasonable use at that.

So all in all I think the current system handles it about perfectly. A way to toss flashbangs around corners would be awesome though.