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Author Topic: Base Improvements  (Read 7085 times)

Offline Quizer

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Re: Base Improvements
« Reply #15 on: December 26, 2012, 07:45:56 pm »
I thought this was about base improvements outside of combat. I have two three suggestions for that:

 - Make it possible to upgrade buildings like radar to a more advanced version without taking down the old one first. I already had my base fully built, so I had to take down my radar, then wait 7 days for the advanced radar to built. Predictably, the funding nations weren't happy about my week long holiday from UFO hunting.

 - What the heck is up with those rocky squares when you build a new base? I strenuously object to their presence, and to their randomness. If they were there because the terrain I picked is unsuitable, I could kind of understand, but it appears to be utterly random. If they absolutely have to be there, put in a 'building' that lets me spend some time and money to get rid of them and get a buildable square.

 - On that same note, if I shell 100000c for a shiny new base somewhere, I really think I should be allowed to place the entrance myself. (Was the random placement done to prevent players making carbon copies of the same base over and over again?)

Offline chris.staddon

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Re: Base Improvements
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2013, 09:41:13 pm »
I'd prefer to design the first base, with the buildings available at the start in a list so you can put them how you want with no time or economic penalty.  Plus an option to abort a base defense - with a twist. If you abort with soldiers still alive, you can choose to send another squad in on a rescue mission - and if successful you recover your staff, your base remains intact - and you get whatever craft the aliens arrived in.... (which wouldn't be a scout or harvester would it eh... a battleship would be more apt!!)

And one other thing I notice: When your base is attacked it gives you three options (blow up something, hold in container - whatever that means - or fight to the death. But only one of them ever seems to work. What do the other 2 do?

Offline tembero

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Re: Base Improvements
« Reply #17 on: January 17, 2013, 01:45:43 am »
plus when a building is under construction, scaffolding on the base screen and scaffolding on the battle scape would be cool. I could design one but room would look more like the picasso room where soldiers brush up on their prestige and interlect, perhaps it could aid mind skill passing through, however, I may try.

Offline H-Hour

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Re: Base Improvements
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2013, 10:30:56 am »
plus when a building is under construction, scaffolding on the base screen and scaffolding on the battle scape would be cool. I could design one but room would look more like the picasso room where soldiers brush up on their prestige and interlect, perhaps it could aid mind skill passing through, however, I may try.

Already in the game.

Offline tembero

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Re: Base Improvements
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2013, 12:06:25 pm »
ooo, I think I have a space in my diary for alien attack and storage building next Friday.....

Offline ShipIt

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Re: Base Improvements
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2013, 05:37:26 pm »
...
And one other thing I notice: When your base is attacked it gives you three options (blow up something, hold in container - whatever that means - or fight to the death. But only one of them ever seems to work. What do the other 2 do?

This is not implemented yet.

Offline Quizer

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Re: Base Improvements
« Reply #21 on: January 18, 2013, 07:34:06 am »
I'd prefer to design the first base, with the buildings available at the start in a list so you can put them how you want with no time or economic penalty.
I second this. The OpenXCom project has implemented this; unless it's a design choice, I don't see why we shouldn't have this option, too. There could be an option in the Gameplay Options called 'custom design first base' or something, which those people who prefer to design their own first base could toggle.

Offline geever

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Re: Base Improvements
« Reply #22 on: January 18, 2013, 09:46:15 am »
I second this. The OpenXCom project has implemented this; unless it's a design choice, I don't see why we shouldn't have this option, too. There could be an option in the Gameplay Options called 'custom design first base' or something, which those people who prefer to design their own first base could toggle.

short: It IS a design choice.

I was ignoring this thread because it didn't have anything to consider, but now as I see, I should clean up these things before you start voting or so.


We had such an option up to maybe 2.2. Buildings were not free but could be instantly built. We removed this options for several reasons:

1. Storyline: You get the control of PHALANX and the (already existing) base, NOT you are building it. And even if you were the founder of PHALANX you would need time to build up a base. If it takes 10 days to build a facility during the game how could you build it in 0 seconds on start. And as a military officer you cannot demand a specific base layout, facilities or equipment. You get what you get.

In fact the ability to choose the base location anywhere on the globe already harms this point which I don't like either. I'm thinking about a feature which offers you 2 random locations per nation to select your 1ST base. It would be more realistic. (Some of you will probably hate it.)

2. Gameplay: The "free build" option we have allowed to build anything you could afford instantly and money was not a limit at this stage. So not just 1 Interceptor Hangar, 1 Laboratory, and so, which are in the default layout. This could give the player an unfair advance in the campaign compared to those are using the default layout. (At that time UFOs were stored in base, one could set up UFO stores instantly too). So it was considered as a CHEAT.

To add a bit more variability to the game, I plan creating a few more initial base layouts with about the same building sets (maybe 1 or 2 more/less) and select one randomly for 1st base.

-geever

Offline Quizer

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Re: Base Improvements
« Reply #23 on: January 18, 2013, 12:04:35 pm »
You are aware that if people aren't satisfied with their random layout or base location, they're just going to restart / reload until they get a satisfactory outcome, right?

For base layouts, it may actually be a good idea and a worthwhile tradeoff - if the base has less buildings than usual, that means you have more money left over, which may be useful, even if you have to deal with build times. It's a trade-off worth considering.

What about those unbuildable squares? What is the reasoning for those?

Also, will the ability to sell / decommission a base be added eventually?

Offline geever

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Re: Base Improvements
« Reply #24 on: January 18, 2013, 02:28:21 pm »
You are aware that if people aren't satisfied with their random layout or base location, they're just going to restart / reload until they get a satisfactory outcome, right?

It is their time, they can waste it. I don't think it worth the tries. How many nations we have, 8? That's 16 possible position for the first base. And I would only restrict location of the first base. Other bases will need to be built up from nothing anyway. And if random location doesn't work we can set up a fixed list for possible first-base locations (which is reasonable either: Nations want you to cover most of their area, they can say "We give you one of these bases only").

What about those unbuildable squares? What is the reasoning for those?

Hard rocks cannot/shouldn't dig out.

Also, will the ability to sell / decommission a base be added eventually?

Sell: no. Destroy: yes.

-geever

Offline Quizer

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Re: Base Improvements
« Reply #25 on: January 18, 2013, 08:03:47 pm »
It is their time, they can waste it. I don't think it worth the tries. How many nations we have, 8? That's 16 possible position for the first base. And I would only restrict location of the first base. Other bases will need to be built up from nothing anyway. And if random location doesn't work we can set up a fixed list for possible first-base locations (which is reasonable either: Nations want you to cover most of their area, they can say "We give you one of these bases only").
As long as you're aware of it. It makes sense from a storytelling perspective, but you also have to consider that PHALANX is the only game in town. That's a not-insignificant source of political leverage, I think. It could be justified either way. Personally, I rather reload a bunch of times than let my new base be crippled with unbuildable squares and things like that, but that's just me.

Quote from: geever
Hard rocks cannot/shouldn't dig out.
I was hoping for a little more detail here - that doesn't even make sense grammatically, let alone in another way. Why were those squares put in in the first place? If PHALANX can choose a base location anywhere in the world, don't you think they could pick a site without unstable or too-difficult-to-work-with geology?

Offline krilain

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Re: Base Improvements
« Reply #26 on: January 18, 2013, 09:21:36 pm »
(...) If PHALANX can choose a base location anywhere in the world, don't you think they could pick a site without unstable or too-difficult-to-work-with geology?
About this point on that you have focused, I see one possibility. The secret base that Phalanx had built as his first one was not so much expected to be extended, but to be 1/ well hidden and 2/ well protected. Built into the rock like that, and having partly some rocks used for roof, this first base has at least satisfied those 2 criteriums. - Is it to say that having some rocks in the base should imply a defensive bonus to balance (e.g. lower detectability) ?
« Last Edit: January 18, 2013, 10:38:22 pm by krilain »

Offline homunculus

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Re: Base Improvements
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2013, 02:16:09 pm »
if bases are at predefined location it takes away the one and only interesting challenge in the game (imho), which is optimizing the radar coverage.

if you are a perfectionist you can avoid the unfavorable bad tile layouts by reloading.

x-com:apoc had an interesting solution in that you had a preview of the base layout before you bought it.

Offline krilain

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Re: Base Improvements
« Reply #28 on: January 19, 2013, 03:21:57 pm »
if bases are at predefined location it takes away the one and only interesting challenge in the game (imho), which is optimizing the radar coverage.
It isn't about losing the possibility of choosing the starting base position. But this base could suffer the presence of rocks wherever you go.
x-com:apoc had an interesting solution in that you had a preview of the base layout before you bought it.
But applied here , if there is no bonus in having rocks in the base, nobody would never choose such a case.

Offline geever

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Re: Base Improvements
« Reply #29 on: January 19, 2013, 03:23:53 pm »
if bases are at predefined location it takes away the one and only interesting challenge in the game (imho), which is optimizing the radar coverage.

Read again.

-geever