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Author Topic: Suspension of belief  (Read 23252 times)

Offline Nutter

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Re: Suspension of belief
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2012, 10:49:33 pm »
Well, with strong enough engines...it'd shake itself apart in a few weeks.

But until then and with all the finest techs the world can offer...I think that candle can shine brightly.
That said, it's specialty is doing magic up close, not speeding.

I didnt say it looks exactly like a Javeline. I wanted to point out that the UFO:AI Rocket Launcher looks more like a javeline or a stinger than RPG7.

Isn't it based off the Carl Gustav recoilless rifle? The last version of that is only twenty years old. And it works...why fix?
Not all good weapons look fancy. And the javelin has a min range of 75m. I'm not even sure my snipers can hit a harvester at that range. Add the fact that it's a single use weapon dedicated to taking care of tanks...apples and oranges, at this point.

Offline Triaxx2

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Re: Suspension of belief
« Reply #16 on: September 12, 2012, 02:56:27 am »
It does look similar to the Carl Gustav. The Stinger is guided, which the rocket launcher is explicitly NOT because of alien jamming technology.

Offline Crystan

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Re: Suspension of belief
« Reply #17 on: September 12, 2012, 12:14:16 pm »
Probably some of you misunterstood me. I just talked about the look - not about the functions etc. :>

Offline Triaxx2

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Re: Suspension of belief
« Reply #18 on: September 12, 2012, 06:53:09 pm »
I know, but it also couldn't be a stinger because of the huge guidance box which the Rocket Launcher lacks.

Offline OllyG

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Re: Suspension of belief
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2012, 08:22:23 am »
... it looks really strange, that there is no any country with pair of Saracens or Stilettos (fully human tech and not so expensive in game prices) to shoot down Scouts or Fighters at least sometimes.
Sometimes the alien ships crash for no apparent reason, could they have been shot down by someone?
Some missions where local military are calling for help would be nice.  I recently played a mission where a military convoy was being attacked, but it looked like all the soldiers had deserted, I saw a few civilians wearing green, but they had no guns.  Also the convoy looked very like a modern one.
A better idea than reworking all the weapons and vehicles in the game would be to set the game in 2024 rather than 2084.  The only thing which shows that the game is in the future is the names of the countries.

Offline Nutter

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Re: Suspension of belief
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2012, 01:55:22 pm »
It allows for some more advanced tech in the fluff, though. Railguns and lasers on human tech, for example.
Stilettos and pulse detonation engines (Firebird) as well.

Probably some of you misunterstood me. I just talked about the look - not about the functions etc. :>


But really, it doesn't. Sure, it's got the whole metal tube rockets go in thing but...that's pretty much it.

Offline Triaxx2

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Re: Suspension of belief
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2012, 01:58:34 pm »
Pulse Detonation? You mean the thing that was invented by the time of World War II? So it could be used to power the V-1 Rocket?

Offline Flying Steel

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Re: Suspension of belief
« Reply #22 on: September 16, 2012, 06:13:17 pm »
Isn't it based off the Carl Gustav recoilless rifle?

Indeed it is. I was instructed to model it off of that real-world weapon system. If there are no special licensing issues, it might even make sense for it to be explicitly identified as such, in game.

One of the game's premises is that earthly smart weapons are easily defeated by alien countermeasures somehow. So simple, robust and overpowered weapons from previous generations of warfare are brought back into service to be used against them.

Offline ergotoxin

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Re: Suspension of belief
« Reply #23 on: September 18, 2012, 06:52:58 pm »
It allows for some more advanced tech in the fluff, though. Railguns and lasers on human tech, for example.
Stilettos and pulse detonation engines (Firebird) as well.

Laser and railgun weapons might actually come to widespread use much much sooner than 2084.

Naval railguns are developed by the US. Laser weapons are actually used since the 90s. One of the more recent examples is the FIRESTRIKE:

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/14/weaponised_rayguns_hit_shelves_in_time_for_xmas/?d=154600

I was myself quite surprised that UFO:AI takes place in 2084 and these weapons aren't developed yet.. guess army isn't funded so well in the future :D

I'd hate to lose the opportunity to research these weapons though, research is what I always loved about x-com/ufo! Much better solution might be what OllyG suggested - setting the starting year to 2020s or perhaps 2040s-2050s.

Just my two cents  :)

Offline BoogieMan

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Re: Suspension of belief
« Reply #24 on: September 19, 2012, 01:25:15 pm »
As far as the seemingly dumb at times AI for the Aliens, I decided to view it as their arrogance. Meaning that they think that they and their tech is so much better they don't have to be as careful about cover and don't view our soldiers as all that much more dangerous than civilians.

Seems to me while they do have superior tech, we're more skilled at war and tactics. And if you take away the tech our soldiers are better.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2012, 01:26:57 pm by BoogieMan »

Offline Nutter

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Re: Suspension of belief
« Reply #25 on: September 20, 2012, 03:00:03 pm »
Laser and railgun weapons might actually come to widespread use much much sooner than 2084.
Naval railguns are developed by the US. Laser weapons are actually used since the 90s. One of the more recent examples is the FIRESTRIKE:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/11/14/weaponised_rayguns_hit_shelves_in_time_for_xmas/?d=154600
I was myself quite surprised that UFO:AI takes place in 2084 and these weapons aren't developed yet.. guess army isn't funded so well in the future :D
I'd hate to lose the opportunity to research these weapons though, research is what I always loved about x-com/ufo! Much better solution might be what OllyG suggested - setting the starting year to 2020s or perhaps 2040s-2050s.
Just my two cents  :)

I'm talking about man portable railguns especially. Even if you can fit one on a ship, it doesn't mean it's actually worth making an infantry weapon out of it. And even then, I'm guessing you'll be seeing an anti-material weapon first.

And note:
Quote
Portable blaster rifles or carbines aren't really on the cards yet, then. But a reasonably useful laser tank could well be a goer if Northrop can do what they say.
Okay, so it's probably closer than 70 years but still.

Pulse Detonation? You mean the thing that was invented by the time of World War II? So it could be used to power the V-1 Rocket?

No, that one is a pulse jet engine. It had moving parts and the combustion lasted longer.
The first pulse detonation engine flew in...08 with no practical engine in production to date. So I'm guessing it'll still take a while before it catches on. And even longer before someone decides to go VTOL with it.

Offline Triaxx2

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Re: Suspension of belief
« Reply #26 on: September 21, 2012, 03:15:10 am »
Ah, got it. Was using an old definition.

And at the moment the problem with Railguns is that you only get a few shots before you've got to change the rails because they're too warped to make contact due to heat. Friction is HOT.

Offline Nutter

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Re: Suspension of belief
« Reply #27 on: September 22, 2012, 10:25:52 pm »
Fixed by only ever using a set of rails For one shot in the game itself.*
The main issue is supposed to be power generation/storage.*
*At least if I remember fluff correctly.


That said, I'm suddenly reminded of Silent Storm...might be I'd have to make a thread about that later.

Offline homunculus

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Re: Suspension of belief
« Reply #28 on: September 27, 2012, 10:28:17 am »
the situation is bit complicated imho.

1) if the date would be 1954, i would be all in favor of that.
stereotypical ww2 weapons all over the place, and modern weapons would appear appropriately futuristic.
but then the geoscape would be more complicated with all the nations there, unless there is a way to unite several nations into an organization or council that would finance phalanx.

2) the secrecy and small scale of the human response after mumbai.
no matter how long the explanation, it just doesn't work.
in the original game, as far as i remember, the governments wanted to have a diplomatic option while secretly financing x-com.

3) aliens wearing casual clothing or being naked (like ortnoks) on earth.
if you would go to mars, would you go naked, or with casual clothing?
aliens seem to have no appropriate protective clothing nor protective glasses.
not optimal conditions could be part of the explanation why aliens on earth are more clumsy than humans.
for example, humans have penalties with alien weapons because those were designed for aliens, while aliens are clumsy at everything they do because they are not on their homeworld.
i doubt a human soldier would perform as good on mars as on earth at least compared to hypothetical marsians.

4) there is no hint at selling phalanx battlefield footage, and financing from that profit.
in real life it would be something like this:
"leaked: top secret phalanx agents against aliens battlefield footage, uncut."
if a flamethrower gets blown up when a soldier dies, extra cash next month.
civilian gets butchered by a bloodspider, extra cash next month.
(nation happiness would drop in such cases, though)
« Last Edit: September 28, 2012, 01:46:52 pm by homunculus »

Offline Triaxx2

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Re: Suspension of belief
« Reply #29 on: September 28, 2012, 02:12:44 pm »
Frankly, I'm sorry, but the inability to sell things we've manufactured is really a killer in 2.4. No money is why I continue to lose. (Being mercilessly slaughtered by Aliens is another.) Even if it's a minimum amount or only those things we start the game with, production of items for sale is both a classic thing, as well as making sense. I mean, sure, the weapons for the most part are top of the line technology, but supposedly the rocket launcher is an antique, meaning no one is going to care if you're shipping out 50 crates of it, as opposed to top secret laser weapons, or handheld rail guns.