project-navigation
Personal tools

Author Topic: UGV weaponry and tactics  (Read 2452 times)

Offline Seerorin

  • Rookie
  • ***
  • Posts: 54
    • View Profile
UGV weaponry and tactics
« on: March 09, 2015, 03:29:49 pm »
I was looking at how you are proceeding with this game and was looking at your UGV concept. I wanna say a few things about your concepts. First of all your UGV is focusing around the combat role of some small scale tank. I think there should be at least two types of UGVs. A "tank" UGV wich has heavy armor and is more about outfighting enemy, and a fire support unit with a less armor but fairly higher firepower. I also started to make models for UGVs. Would like to help a bit with them.

My ideas about UGVs and UGV combat:

1.: there should be two categories of UGVs the current ares model wich is highly mobile and has a tall armored hull. So soldiers can hide behind it. There should be the other model of the chimera, wich is a fire support platform. Also there could be lightly armored and armored fliing drone in similar size(like a miniature chopper). Wich could have lightest armor and weaponry but can give a lot of vision.

2.: The UGVs should have a lot better aim and cause of the turrets they don't have to turn, so faster firing/aiming should be possible. The turets should be small, cause there is no need for space for humans. Also most weaponry can be belt fed(there are belt fed guns wich can even change ammor type). Also ammo racks should be under the turret rotating thoghether with the whole turret. Hovering systems also do not need turret they can traverse the whole hull fairly easier, also recoil and movement of a heavy turret would make the hovercraft more unstable.

3.: Ares should have options of mounting multiple types of turrets and weapons. It should be able to equip a 50mm single shot cannon or rocket launcher against other UGVs and fortified positions, also with the ability to fire HE rounds. This turret should have a coaxial MG simple with 4,7 mm ammo. This should be a standard configuration. Alien tanks could only be damaged by explosives and this cannon efffectively. There should be a turret with the 12mm Rotary cannon just against soft targets. Also you could research more weapons like this. e.g.: A laser weapon wich eliminates the need for two separate guns(making the turret smaller, or better armored), or into a combination of a high yield plasma cannon and a rapid firing laser weapon.

4.: Chimera UGV should always have multiple weapon systems. With lighter armor larger turret mount it should mount a more deadlier weaponry also could be a little bit faster. It should have a starting turret with a 12mm rotary cannon for direct fire support and a 25mm belt fed grenade launcher for indirect fire support. There could be a variant with a 70mm mortar with multiple type of rounds( airburst HE for standard, gun launched armor piercing rocket against armor, semi armor piercing He rounds for the ability to attack enemy inside buildings, more advenced rounds could also be rounds wich leaves a mine at impact point. A third turret with a heavy longer range automatic 25mm grenade launcher also should be present(it would able to take 5 or so aimed shots not too far from each other or more but not really accurate shooting.). This platform could act as a light artirelly for the phalanx troops. For the large weapons there should be a 4,7 machine gun as a secondary weapon.

5.: For larger guns UGVs should have to select ammot type before each shot(simple for single shot weapons, dunno how to do for multi shot weapons like 12mm and 25mm GLs). Also GL for the UGVs should have larger effective range.

6.: UGVs should have 360 vision with the ability to detect aliens throgh walls if they are too close. Some aliens also should have thermal cloack so they wouldn't be seen through walls.

If you are interested in my concept I will post my done models too. I'm still working on them and they aren't ready yet. :)
« Last Edit: March 09, 2015, 09:44:20 pm by Seerorin »

Offline DarkRain

  • Project Coder
  • Captain
  • ***
  • Posts: 747
    • View Profile
Re: UGV weaponry and tactics
« Reply #1 on: March 10, 2015, 06:49:43 pm »
Well to be honest we don't have a clear idea of how exactly UGV's will work in the game, so I'd say we are open to suggestions in this regard, of course some things you mention aren't implemented yet — we don't have flying units support yet, or a real visibility system — but they are planned, and of course we'd like to see your models

Offline Seerorin

  • Rookie
  • ***
  • Posts: 54
    • View Profile
Re: UGV weaponry and tactics
« Reply #2 on: November 30, 2015, 03:53:10 pm »
Sometimes life hit like a train. -.- I will come up with some better made plans and models in few weeks. Will try to make it go well with the game theme and how it works right now.

Offline TallTroll

  • Rookie
  • ***
  • Posts: 77
    • View Profile
Re: UGV weaponry and tactics
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2015, 01:29:31 pm »
1) A light flying drone should be unarmed. Its' benefit should be the flight and vision, not more weapons

2) UGVs have to be balanced, though. If they were super snipers, why would you take anything else? As they can't gain XP, they should have good enough stats (and upgradable via research), but not great ones

3) Multiple weapons types per platform are in the plan, loosely. Some of the weapons will likely get ammo upgrades too, as existing weapons do (EP rounds, AM rockets etc). It's probably better if a single UGV only mounts a single weapon at a time though.

All UGVs should be able to be damaged by man(?)-carried weapons though, at least heavier ones, otherwise combat degenerates into "who has the last tank left?", and they mop up

4) I think its better that all UGVs normally carry only one weapon. I suppose it might be possible to use the existing off-hand weapon mechanics to mount a second one, but it should be expensive and limited if it exists at all. Otherwise I forsee late game tactics using 3 overpowered UGVs and a handful of psychic troops to overrun every mission (my brother did something similar in the original XCOM, had 2 uber-psychers who took down alien bases using just them armed with fusion launchers, and the power of mind control. Needs luck to pull it off, but it's beautiful when it works)

5) It's doable with the ammo selection code now, but it would leads to issues quickly. The grenade launcher is a good example. It used to fire 1 or 3 shot bursts, with 4(?) firemodes for each (aimed timed/airburst, and snap timed/airburst I think). Very messy.

Now, a even strictly single shot cannon needs at least aimed and snap modes. Should it have a burst mode? A super-snipe mode for all its' TUs, but a slightly higher to-hit? Something else? And how many ammo types should it be able to carry? These aren't full on tanks, just RC cars on steroids, remember. That cannon tank is going to have like 8 shots, maybe. Simpler is probably better, for a lot of reasons

GLs are GLs, probably best to just call it a mortar, which it likely would be, anyway

I'd just say don't go too mad with the model making until you are fairly sure what is needed / might even be possible (it's a pretty old engine) / even fits in the game.  A lot of decisions about what can and can't be done in the world have been made that aren't always obvious from the game as it stands

Offline Seerorin

  • Rookie
  • ***
  • Posts: 54
    • View Profile
Re: UGV weaponry and tactics
« Reply #4 on: February 04, 2016, 12:14:05 am »
UGV's are larger. Also anything smaller than a plasma rifle should simply do nothing to the ARES type cause it's designed to take the blunt. Multi weapons should be there cause this unit should be really expensive in time and money. Also these can't enter buildings takes up a lot of space no cover from heavy weapons. So if you don't defend them well against heavy weapon carriing aliens(some kind of armor piercing weapon like a heavy plasma or rocket based weapon can maybe single hit even the ARES at start. But ordinary weapons will do only a little damage. The lighter armored fire support platform should be easily heavily damaged by even lighter weaponry. Still could take a lot more hit than soldiers but not concentrated heavy fire. On the other hand, de heavy and slow ARES could simply be able to take concentrated light weapon fire for even more than one turn from a few aliens and sustain only minor damage. But if the aliens bring their heavy weapons even the mighty ares fell prey.

High stat answer: These are machines far more precise than the human body. They have better and faster aim at ranges, don't feel recoil as much als ocan carry far better recoil controll systems. Still they have weaknesses: Can't enter buildings. Can't take cover. Can't take some routes what soldiers could easily do. But they should have the ability to wipe out multiple alien contacts in a single round if the alines don't take cover. These vehicles should give the ability to fight aliens just like in the story of the game. That way smoke could be reworked. Also new AI I think can be taught to respect these vehicles.

Also these are pretty beefed up RC cars wich weight a few tonnes, not the small toys what nowadays armies tries to use. At least the lore speaks this way. So they should pack a punch and cost a lot of money to use them. Also research should mostly focus around surviving heavy weapon firing aliens, better vision range, more TU-s, better weaponry, countermeasures against incoming fire to not get hit at all. Cause even now we have quiet good and fast aiming computers.