Herakles: A death trap?

[ChemBro]

Since upgrading my drop ship from Firebird to Herakles, I somehow have the feeling, I downgraded when entering the battlefield. I don't know how you play, but I hide my soldiers usually behind a wall. With the Herakles, it feels like there is an opening, where aliens can shoot in and hit nearly everything, before I can do a move. The Firebird has two openings and you can "switch sides" in a reasonable amount of time (units), or hide. The Herakles has the problem, that my soldiers in the back reach the "door" with half of their TUs depleted. Not much time to hide somewhere on the battlefield.

And I especially like it, when 2 aliens spawn left and right in front of the opening with Needler guns in their hands... and you don't see them fast enough...

What I want to say: If I were PHALANX, I would never construct a drop ship, where my soldiers can so easily been shot or they cannot hide fast enough.

So, what's next? Getting dropped with nothing to hide at all?

[H-Hour]

1. I think a lot of the spawns on Herakles could be moved forward.

2. We now support smoke grenades. They will become very important.

[Kildor]

In this case smokefields should be fired automatically, before soldiers start to move.

[H-Hour]

In this case smokefields should be fired automatically, before soldiers start to move.

We shouldn't make tactical decisions for players. Smoke fields may not be desired in all cases.

[Jon_dArc]

I haven't given extensive thought to the matter, but one idea that's been nagging at me is the idea that dropships ought to give omnidirectional LOS from their position—at the very least, this would alleviate the "start in a cave" effect of the Herakles. Though if and when UGVs are implemented, having their spawn points outside would also do a lot there.

~J

[ChemBro]

Hm. In the "hills area" mission, my soldiers spawn ontop of the transporter. I have attached a save file right before the mission. Or should I do a proper bug report?

[Jon_dArc]

The actual bug is that there should be a grill, picnic table, and bowl of potato salad on the transport with them.

(In 2.4, on the Farm map, two soldiers would spawn on top of the transport with no path off. Fortunately for me, I had long-range units in those slots.)

~J

[geisthund]

well, considering that the dropship can be armed, it would make sense that the drop area would have been strafed a bit and the aliens wouldn't be standing next to the door when the ship lands. As they frequently are. I don't mind because I just hide inside the ship and set everyone to reaction fire. The aliens get cut down when they come around the corner.
But I do agree that it doesn't feel very realistic...

[ShipIt]

We just have no experience with the Herakles maps. It looks like it was not used very often before 2.4, as we had no feedback about it ´til now.

I tried to fix all the tiles shortly before the release, apparently it was too late for them to go into 2.4. In 2.5-dev there should be no more buggy Herakles maps.

About the spawn points we will need to find a solution.

[Nutter]

A miminum spawning distance relative to the dropship? It would make the missions painfully longer, though.

[geisthund]

how about some dead "aliens" near the dropzone. They don't have to be real... could be drawn-on to the landscape as "features". it would give the illusion that something happened during the landing, and also explain why there are aliens near the door. sorta.

[Nutter]

How about firing ports? If at all possible.

[ShipIt]

A miminum spawning distance relative to the dropship? It would make the missions painfully longer, though.

It would be good to hear what maps are actually do well in this (balancing the spawn points and the map size). This would give an example how to do it.

[TrashMan]

Having spawn points outside is BAD, bad bad!

Notihng wrose that your soldiers starting scattered, with aleins 2 feet behind them. I can't tell you how many soldiers I lost because the aliens were literaly standing right behind/next. I couldnt' even fire a gun before the alien reactionfire my soldiers to death.


Soldiers should start in transport.

[Nutter]

Yeah, it's a pain. Especially since they all tend to stare in the same direction when you start.
Problem is that even then, at least the Firebird has a rather shitty setup. Read: Half your squad is wide open for a plasma burst due to its open sides and the only way to hide them is to order them out. And even the two next to the entrance aren't in a much better position. Good thing the aliens are almost as shitty shots as your own troops.
What's the chance of treating dropship doors as actual doors? It might help.