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Author Topic: Mortars  (Read 14151 times)

Offline Triaxx2

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Mortars
« on: May 15, 2012, 06:40:03 pm »
I've noticed that the enemy likes to hide behind walls, and there is occasionally no cover to close in enough to throw a grenade, usually without exposing yourself to enemy fire.

Mortars as heavy weapons would neatly solve the problem, while being able to potentially punch through floors. They'd be very expensive to use, and possibly immobile within the battle space, so they don't step on the toes of grenade launchers.

Having multiple round types would make it a useful tactical weapon. Large area smoke rounds, incendiary, and naturally armor piercing. Possibly even a camera round to be dropped into an area you can't see. It doesn't have to last for more than a round.

Offline geever

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Re: Mortars
« Reply #1 on: May 15, 2012, 07:44:12 pm »
What kind of mortar is that can't turn a wall into dust? -- And in UFO:AI walls are indestructible, you know...

-geever

Offline headdie

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Re: Mortars
« Reply #2 on: May 15, 2012, 07:53:34 pm »
in theory smoke grenades should provide visual cover which would help that issue but I belie there is an issue with the code {could be wrong there}

Having said that I have thought about bringing up the subject of mortars a few time.   The problem I have found is as you say thinking of a way of using them that doesn't make them overpowered grenade launchers.

They defiantly need to be heavy weapons. but I don't like making them immobile in case the soldier spawns somewhere useless like inside the dropship but a penalty to movement I think should be considered especially if it proves over powered.

Might it also be worth making the weapon only usable when crouched and have a heavy TU cost to fire the thing

I think the thing should suffer from accuracy but compensate with large damage and blast radius so players have to think then using it or else risk friendly fire or hitting civilians.

Offline kurja

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Re: Mortars
« Reply #3 on: May 15, 2012, 08:04:38 pm »
I've thought of that as well but in my opinion realistic mortars wouldn't really "fit". Gameplay-wise, we already have the grenade launcher for indirect fire; perhaps it could be tweaked to be a little heavier weapon by adding range/damage/radius in exchange for removing burst mode and adding tu cost to become more "mortar-like".

Offline headdie

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Re: Mortars
« Reply #4 on: May 15, 2012, 08:11:49 pm »
iirc grenade launcher follow a flatter trajectory, useful for putting rounds through windows and the like.

A mortar tends to follow a higher/steeper trajectory useful for hitting objects behind tall cover which is what Triaxx2 was looking for

Offline kurja

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Re: Mortars
« Reply #5 on: May 15, 2012, 08:34:39 pm »
would it be possible to change grenade launcher's aiming to enable this, does the shot always need to use a similar trajectory?

Offline headdie

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Re: Mortars
« Reply #6 on: May 15, 2012, 08:52:15 pm »
Perhaps having an up/down arrow on the side of the fire options list to set the apex height and have the max range reduce incrementally beyond a certain height

Offline Nutter

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Re: Mortars
« Reply #7 on: May 15, 2012, 09:12:49 pm »
Mortars count as artillery, though. And suggestions of fire support were already shot down since pretty much all of your operations seem to be happening in at least lightly populated areas and you're trying to avoid friendly fire as if it's the plague.
Though, some more heavy weapons would be nice.
Maybe a .50cal? :p

Offline headdie

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Re: Mortars
« Reply #8 on: May 15, 2012, 09:25:08 pm »
mortars are also man portable (the UK L9 light morter is in the 6-7 kilo range which is about the same as the FN minimi light machinegun) and are generally used for close range indirect fire support (750m for the L9) rather than of field support, there was consideration in the MOD to replace the L9 with L17A2 UGL (Under-slung Grenade Launcher).

Offline Nutter

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Re: Mortars
« Reply #9 on: May 15, 2012, 09:37:32 pm »
I know, I know. Not like I'm against the idea. Especially if we'd be allowed to pack the shells full of CHOKE when R&D tells you how to make it.
Still doubt we'll get anything, though.

Offline headdie

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Re: Mortars
« Reply #10 on: May 15, 2012, 09:55:43 pm »
I can understand that they could very easily become stupidly over powered which is why I suggested them be inaccurate and large blast area so that there is a good risk of killing civilians if used carelessly, also buildings will probably provide good cover from mortars so it will still be necessary to take direct fire weapons to take out sneaky snipers.

Other things can be done are things like having each reload = 1 shell rather than 6 for the GL so the ammo is bulky meaning that if you want to take a decent backup weapon and medkit you will be heavily limited on number of shells that can be carried

Additionally if firing the weapon takes a very high TU to fire (near 100%) and combined with single shot reloads it means that they can only be fired every other turn and not on a turn where the soldier moves.

Offline Nutter

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Re: Mortars
« Reply #11 on: May 15, 2012, 10:15:18 pm »
Having a mule or two should probably be essential as well.

Offline headdie

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Re: Mortars
« Reply #12 on: May 15, 2012, 10:22:59 pm »
Perhaps, perhaps not.

Remember that once 2x2 drones are implemented a Firebird will potentially be 1 drone and 4 soldiers making one mortar soldier a quarter of your squad, leaving 3+1UGV for direct hunter killer, you might also want to keep a soldier back to cover your mortar with them probably being unable to reaction fire.

But a Mule would also keep the mortar a significant lump of your deployable force when deploying 8 soldiers.

Offline Nutter

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Re: Mortars
« Reply #13 on: May 15, 2012, 10:51:20 pm »
Alternative: Mortar UGV? Basically gives us a nice self-propelled artillery piece to play with.

I am also reminded of BigDog. Maybe have something in that direction as well?

Though, from what I heard, dropship capacity has a planned increase to 12 later.
Of course, that is for a later craft.

Offline headdie

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Re: Mortars
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2012, 11:05:49 pm »
I would expect that alien armour would be much more resistant to explosives by then as well as larger squads of aliens so might not be so much of an issue.

A morter equipped UGV is an interesting Idea, it would certainly restrict the number deployed, though I tend to think UGVs as more spearhead units than back line support, but in it's advantage it would open up the opportunity for cluster fire modes.