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Do you agree with these changes?

Yes to all
23 (71.9%)
Not at all
0 (0%)
Mostly but autosell is good and buy/sell should be the same price
3 (9.4%)
Mostly but buy/sell should be the same price
2 (6.3%)
Mostly but production should not make a profit
1 (3.1%)
Only a rebalance is needed
3 (9.4%)

Total Members Voted: 4

Voting closed: September 22, 2006, 06:07:23 am

Author Topic: I want to fix the quirky economy  (Read 8301 times)

Silencer

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I want to fix the quirky economy
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2006, 01:56:36 am »
Hmm I actually like how XForce has handled economics largely, especially dealing with weaponry where you can buy most current firearms directly or build your own copies once you buy the plans, but certain countries have specialties which basically can only be gotten from them, as I recall from when I still played it the economics model worked reasonably well and didn't detract from the standards in XCOM, and the purchasing of weapons blueprints is realistic enough in game terms and in reality, ie Australia bought the plans to make their own licensed version of the Steyr AUG, the F88 Steyr.

Offline geisthund

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Re: I want to fix the quirky economy
« Reply #16 on: May 07, 2012, 09:07:06 pm »
I know this is a really old thread... but the thing about this economy system is that the PLANET is at war. As such I'd imagine governments sharing tech with abandon and minimizing the concept of ownership, what is proprietary, classified research for 1 country only etc. There is no competition to see who can beat the aliens first, or who can hold out longest... the whole scenario will be about survival versus a common aggressor, and I'd like to imagine humanity would be smart enough to band together out of, if nothing else, fear.

Offline TrashMan

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Re: I want to fix the quirky economy
« Reply #17 on: May 07, 2012, 09:30:03 pm »
The best system is the one that feels natural or real. No infalting of dropping prices jsut to get some fake sense of "balance"

Things that should logicly make a profit should make a profit. Things that shouldn't, shouldn't. Costs to produce, buy and sell should ALL be sensible.

Yes, selling na alien gun should net you a fortune. But running your base should also cost you a fortune. Also, making the prototype should cost a fortune (in addition the the lab expenses).

Offline Jon_dArc

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Re: I want to fix the quirky economy
« Reply #18 on: May 08, 2012, 04:59:04 pm »
The best system is the one that feels natural or real. No infalting of dropping prices jsut to get some fake sense of "balance"
I don't agree, for a variety of reasons. To start with, you're dropping this market onto an already fundamentally unrealistic situation (it would take months, and require an inordinate amount of base real estate, to field so much as a battalion in UFO:AI), so you've got severely distorted demand there. Every piece of equipment that's available at the start of the game should, realistically, be effectively free compared to aircraft or installations. It'd be a mess.

As a result, you'd then get into hideous game balance issues—do you want to have equipment actually cost something, or do you want the player to ever be able to build another base or buy aircraft? Economic issues would make every single researchable earth weapon worthless (bleeding-edge, just-developed laser rifles sell for 2.5 times the cost of an assault rifle that has been in production for decades!), and the process of bringing the cost down should take years.

I know it sounds nice to say "this should be realistic", but it's a bad, bad idea.

~J

Offline kurja

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Re: I want to fix the quirky economy
« Reply #19 on: May 08, 2012, 05:11:27 pm »
Also, making the prototype should cost a fortune (in addition the the lab expenses).

According to research reports, lab guys have already made the prototype, so it's cost is included there.

Offline TrashMan

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Re: I want to fix the quirky economy
« Reply #20 on: May 08, 2012, 07:06:34 pm »
I don't agree, for a variety of reasons. To start with, you're dropping this market onto an already fundamentally unrealistic situation (it would take months, and require an inordinate amount of base real estate, to field so much as a battalion in UFO:AI), so you've got severely distorted demand there. Every piece of equipment that's available at the start of the game should, realistically, be effectively free compared to aircraft or installations. It'd be a mess.

I mean comparatively, compared to other items of it's type.

A rifle and a modern aricraft prices are so different it's not even funny. And htat makes sense.

What doesn't make sesne that you can't turn any profit on selling state-of-the-art weaponry.

At the end of the day, this is a game, and economy is part of it. While it would be realistic for you to have all the funding of the world, that would make for a mroe boring game. But at the same time, if economoy exists, then it should be done right.

Offline TrashMan

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Re: I want to fix the quirky economy
« Reply #21 on: May 08, 2012, 07:07:35 pm »
According to research reports, lab guys have already made the prototype, so it's cost is included there.

Well, research costs nothing except the lab time.
Maybe add an aditional cost to some research?

Offline Nutter

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Re: I want to fix the quirky economy
« Reply #22 on: May 08, 2012, 07:28:26 pm »
Of course, one could say, especially for some of the costlier stuff, that most of the prices are in fact covered by the governments who still appreciate your presence in the world while you mostly pay for the basics. Maybe shipping too, while at it.

Offline ShipIt

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Re: I want to fix the quirky economy
« Reply #23 on: May 08, 2012, 07:54:39 pm »
... humanity would be smart enough to band together ...

Either realistic or this ^. You can´t have it all.

Offline Jon_dArc

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Re: I want to fix the quirky economy
« Reply #24 on: May 08, 2012, 10:27:13 pm »
What doesn't make sesne that you can't turn any profit on selling state-of-the-art weaponry.
You can, to some extent—at the start of the game you can generally count on a Plasma Pistol or Kerrblade per alien (some have two weapons, some just have grenades, figure averaging at one) for in the vicinity of 1,600c per alien. Later on, suits of Alien Medium Armor start seriously increasing the average return per alien. Or did you mean researched weaponry rather than scavenged weaponry?

I think the potentially bigger economic problem is the relatively low limit on funding—might need to do some calculating to figure out how much cashflow one can expect from aliens, but it's not at all obvious that you can't end up unavoidably in the red by maxing out your bases/installations/etc.

~J

Offline Nutter

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Re: I want to fix the quirky economy
« Reply #25 on: May 08, 2012, 10:45:04 pm »
I miss their breathing devices. Those were a nice, steady trickle of funds and I'm pretty sure they weren't limited to Tamans either so you got 300 for every cadaver you carted in.

Offline kurja

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Re: I want to fix the quirky economy
« Reply #26 on: May 08, 2012, 11:18:04 pm »
Talking about selling and buying, has anyone else wondered how come it's possible to buy laser weapons for an example, that were developed by phalanx, and especially if you never sold one then who else is making these same guns that you can buy..?

Offline TrashMan

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Re: I want to fix the quirky economy
« Reply #27 on: May 08, 2012, 11:30:46 pm »
I'd make it so that if you sell a weapan, after a month or two is becomes avilable on the market, as the governments begin producing them.

Of course, it's hihgly possivle Phalanx shares it's findings with the governments of the world.