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Author Topic: IR-goggles  (Read 12284 times)

Offline headdie

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Re: IR-goggles
« Reply #15 on: August 12, 2012, 07:42:53 pm »
How difficult would it be to do something where aliens only visible through a wall using goggles shows on the map as a fizzy general area, say a 3-5 (size perhaps dependent on range) circle which the Alien could be anywhere in that space (random off set from 0 to maximum radius).  This way the player gets an idea where enemy aliens are without being able to snipe the alien based just on the IR goggles, obviously the player will then need to commit a soldiers to either spot the alien accurately for the wall penetrating shot or just kill the alien if it is an option.  Basically the IR goggles retain their function in nasty situations but are no longer a "legal" kill cheat.

Offline Triaxx2

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Re: IR-goggles
« Reply #16 on: August 16, 2012, 07:52:27 pm »
Wouldn't help much. That's about the inaccuracy of grenades.

Offline headdie

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Re: IR-goggles
« Reply #17 on: August 16, 2012, 08:47:03 pm »
but it would hamper shooting through walls and on the grenade front the difference between that area's accuracy and grenade accuracy would be the difference between kill and light/no damage (depending on armour)

Offline Triaxx2

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Re: IR-goggles
« Reply #18 on: August 19, 2012, 04:19:20 am »
Hmm... True. Wouldn't bother flashbangs though, which are what I always throw, presuming I can get it through the bloody door...

Ahem. You're right, it would hamper shooting unless you just spam rounds through the wall.

Offline OllyG

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Re: IR-goggles
« Reply #19 on: September 03, 2012, 02:31:53 pm »
Yeah, overpowered and to some degree fun-breaking, although I do have to say I love how it eliminates scouring every corner for that last alien which can be a total bitch if it happens repeatedly. (Maybe there could be a mission timer of some sort where "the last alien got away" if it was unseen by round 25 in applicable mission types)?
This is a great idea.  The aliens escaping should be in.  If you can win with a few alien survivors it provides a way for imperfect victories.  I would change it to if no alien is spotted for 5 turns the mission ends, maybe even just 2 turns.  I really hate wandering around the map looking for the last alien!

Offline Mattn

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Re: IR-goggles
« Reply #20 on: September 04, 2012, 08:10:14 am »
i lke this idea, too - will put it onto my todo list.

Offline Sandro

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Re: IR-goggles
« Reply #21 on: September 04, 2012, 09:15:48 am »
Original X-Com handled the last alien in a different way: after about 10 turns of being alone and hidden it would go berserk and start shooting around at random, with forced visibility of him. There was a bug though, which prevented it for later enemies :(

Offline Mattn

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Re: IR-goggles
« Reply #22 on: September 04, 2012, 09:44:51 am »
this is implemented now - if we wanna tweak this, patches are welcome. currently the match will end in a draw if no ai player got visible in within 20 rounds. there is a cvar g_lastseen to controll this threshold.

Offline H-Hour

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Re: IR-goggles
« Reply #23 on: September 04, 2012, 06:06:18 pm »
This is fine for now, especially with the threshold so high (it could probably be at 10 turns and still not be a huge incentive for camping). However, it will need to be reconsidered when we get a defensive ai. The way x-com handled it (aliens quitting their patrol routes after * turns) would probably be better whenever the ai stops rushing the player.

Offline homunculus

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Re: IR-goggles
« Reply #24 on: October 08, 2012, 08:47:50 am »
(being aware of how unlikely such thing is to happen) did a little sketch for an alien detector (attached).

the idea is that some scientist measured nerve signals in alien brain, and discovered that it responds to other alien's presence.
so, the device has a piece of alien brain inside a vial with nutrient solution that keeps it functional.
a live alien could be a component needed to manufacture the detector (or alternatively, to "recharge" it before battle, but that might get complicated and increase micromanagement).

detects aliens as a number, which is sum of alien max health points divided by distance.
so the player can no longer see through walls, but gets "warmer-colder" type of hints about the location of aliens.
that would look like a (imho necessary) downgrade, but on the other hand it detects aliens all over the map, so no more running around with goggles looking for the last alien.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2012, 08:53:05 am by homunculus »

Offline Hertzila

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Re: IR-goggles
« Reply #25 on: October 12, 2012, 10:06:16 pm »
Scanning (or detection) has good implementation in UFO:Aftermath. In case of detection without clear sight question sign was shown in supposed place.

Seeing throw walls is possible but not with IR. Nowadays many researchers are studying 1THz radiowaves for that. Also there is technique to see using passive radar as detector of deflected signal and several WiFi access point as signal source (or any other sourse, WiFi useful for cops ;)). Also there is similar device for search alive humans under fallen buildings after earthquake - by detecting signal change due to heartbeat. Also there are several reports about reconstructing image from behind corner using scattered light.

So, we just can say that our IR-goggles in fact use that all. However strange that soldier have to use TU for that every turn. More naturally whould be use TUs to switch on and off. On - means seeing throw walls but short distance, off - normal vision maybe a bit improved compared to soldier without them.

Alternatively, the goggles could use a sonar imaging device to "see" through walls. The denser they are or the further they are from you, the more inaccurate the scan gets and you might not pick the guy up. Or your device says it's 2 meters to the left of where it actually is. Naturally they can't tell you what exactly is on the other side, at least not from more than a couple of meters afar.

Or they could use an amalgation of all the techs to get a more varied scope of scans, and possibly better accuracy.


Ps. Long time no see, UFO:AI!

Offline Charlie

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Re: IR-goggles
« Reply #26 on: October 29, 2012, 12:06:12 am »
10 years ago few people knew what google is, now we can't live without it. The game is set in 2084.  That's 72 years from today. Infrared thermography today can pinpoint objects behind walls with complete accuracy. What is generally suggested in this thread is to make gear from the future perform worse than sonar did a hundred years ago.

I find having my best soldier  - equipped in nanocomposite armor, with reaction fire enabled, hunting for that last alien - killed without even trying to fire back to be not-fun, and the IR goggles are a great way of preventing that. I like them the way the are (in today's head).

Offline homunculus

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Re: IR-goggles
« Reply #27 on: October 29, 2012, 07:51:05 am »
[...]Infrared thermography today can pinpoint objects behind walls with complete accuracy.[...]
are you surprised that i am asking for reference?
and i hope you are also not surprised that i think the statement is completely worthless without a solid reference, because references about 'infrared thermography' seem to prove the contrary.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f2/Passivhaus_thermogram_gedaemmt_ungedaemmt.png/220px-Passivhaus_thermogram_gedaemmt_ungedaemmt.png

as for ir-goggles helping your soldier to not die to the last alien, i see that as 'boring and tedious solution is more effective', which is not a good thing.

Offline Triaxx2

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Re: IR-goggles
« Reply #28 on: October 29, 2012, 12:37:53 pm »
The one useful thing to do is park someone outside the alien craft, and hit the IR Goggles so you can see if that last alien is having pathing issues.

Offline Charlie

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Re: IR-goggles
« Reply #29 on: October 29, 2012, 09:11:16 pm »
Examples are abundant, I won't Google for you.

I don't know what you're quoting in the second paragraph nor can I comprehend it.
« Last Edit: October 29, 2012, 11:00:09 pm by Charlie »