Some rant about ufopaedia texts

[homunculus]

Wanted to clarify a few things about some weapons and aircraft, and therefore read some mail, and noticed again that the texts are verbose and useful info is not very clearly accessible.

So I got a little wicked and tried out how many lines of text are needed to tell me that something is a storage facility.
Quite a few, it seems, though it might suit the ufo:ai style.

The heading looked like an official letter and that was fine, but in the body tiny details like this attracted a lot of attention (= a LOT):
"Live ammunition and other sensitive equipment such as alien artifacts are kept in locked containers in the quartermaster's office behind rigorous security; checking anything out of locked storage requires the presence of the base quartermaster and written authorisation from the Command Centre."
The security being rigorous or not rigorous depends on the context.
The security being rigorous is Marcel LeClerc's personal opinion.
Perhaps he is trying to tell me that in his opinion the security is too rigorous for PHALANX base storage and we should relax more instead, maybe even treat it as a junk yard?

Even if the storage facility text absolutely has to be that much verbose, in an official letter I would expect item categories and associated security standards (id and name), and it better be formatted as a list or else Maj. LeClerc might be in trouble.
Maybe it is specific to the place where I live (although I very much doubt that), but I do not think a base commander would be interested in Marcel's personal opinions, like a letter to mom (trying to convey the attitude of myself as a player reading it).
Even just without the "behind rigorous security" part:
"Live ammunition and other sensitive equipment such as alien artifacts are kept in locked containers in the quartermaster's office; checking anything out of locked storage requires the presence of the base quartermaster and written authorisation from the Command Centre."
This is, of course, just one example of such detail in this text which looks like it is supposed to be an official letter, and this text is just one example of of the ufopaedia texts that are written with similar attitude.

On the other hand, it might clarify that dead aliens are not stored in the storage facility (as opposed to many ufo games).
It does say "ammunition, weapons, and other equipment", but there is motivation to store a dead alien in the storage and I doubt that, say, in court, a fridge or a dry ice box that accidentally contains a dead alien would not qualify as "other equipment".
That is probably not necessary from the "official letter about storage facility" point of view, but is "relevant information for the player".
If the text was a clear list of item categories without this "other equipment", the explicit clarification about alien stiffs would not be needed (terminology like "personal combat equipment" comes to mind).

By the way, I am not saying that the storage facility text should be rewritten or anything the like.
What I am saying is that there are such kind of issues with the texts.

[Jon_dArc]

Wanted to clarify a few things about some weapons and aircraft, and therefore read some mail, and noticed again that the texts are verbose and useful info is not very clearly accessible.

So I got a little wicked and tried out how many lines of text are needed to tell me that something is a storage facility.

While I agree that the UFOPaedia texts have serious style and content issues, this isn't a particularly good example—it takes all of one line of text to tell us that it's a storage facility (less if you count the name). Admittedly that's preceded by a bit over a half-dozen lines of administrative debris, but that's all in the form of an email header that the eye quickly skips over—on my machine, the relevant information appears without scrolling (though if there's reason to believe that a meaningful portion of the playerbase uses a significantly lower resolution that might be an issue). Nearly everything else is just flavourtext.

"Live ammunition and other sensitive equipment such as alien artifacts are kept in locked containers in the quartermaster's office behind rigorous security; checking anything out of locked storage requires the presence of the base quartermaster and written authorisation from the Command Centre."
The security being rigorous or not rigorous depends on the context.
The security being rigorous is Marcel LeClerc's personal opinion.
Perhaps he is trying to tell me that in his opinion the security is too rigorous for PHALANX base storage and we should relax more instead, maybe even treat it as a junk yard?

It is dependent on the context, but the context is assumed—it's Marcel LeClerc's opinion in his capacity as Base Commander of Pacific Operations Command.

More problematic from my view is that the UFOPaedia description is at odds with the base tile as shown overhead and in base attack maps (security? Where?), or the fact that only certain kinds of people take up living quarters (where did this quartermaster appear from?), but this is pretty nitpicky.

Even if the storage facility text absolutely has to be that much verbose

I think what you're digging towards is a deeper issue about how the UFOpaedia descriptions serve two orthogonal roles—they provide (or ought to) important gameplay information on the one hand, which should be done concisely and scannably, and on the other they serve as flavourtext for atmosphere-building and player entertainment.

in an official letter I would expect item categories and associated security standards (id and name), and it better be formatted as a list or else Maj. LeClerc might be in trouble.
Maybe it is specific to the place where I live (although I very much doubt that), but I do not think a base commander would be interested in Marcel's personal opinions, like a letter to mom (trying to convey the attitude of myself as a player reading it).
Even just without the "behind rigorous security" part:
"Live ammunition and other sensitive equipment such as alien artifacts are kept in locked containers in the quartermaster's office; checking anything out of locked storage requires the presence of the base quartermaster and written authorisation from the Command Centre."
This is, of course, just one example of such detail in this text which looks like it is supposed to be an official letter, and this text is just one example of of the ufopaedia texts that are written with similar attitude.

I think here again the deeper issue is that all UFOpaedia articles are structured as direct reports from persons of significance in PHALANX; descriptions of routine installations, procedures, and equipment read strangely in that context (note especially the articles on, say, the Combat Knife or most other equipment available at the start of the game).

At least the storage facility article doesn't outright lie to the player, as the Small Hanger article does by claiming to be an entry point during base invasions.

~J

[homunculus]

Suppose a player wants to find some info about a facility, or whatever other item.
Usually there is nowhere else to go for the info except ufopaedia.
What the player finds there, however, is pages and pages (about half a page for each item) of flavor text that is supposed to drive the players imagination (original x-com did the same, but the texts were way shorter).
So, the player gets a wicked attitude about it and nitpicks on a word here and there.
And, just for this very simple reason, a player like myself is not on the same side as the writer of those texts, and rather than accomplishing the flavor purpose it accomplishes some rolleyes emotes instead.

[Vassilios de Veritas]

Oh people, don't remind me about Storage Facility description text. Some time ago i was actively translating msg_ids to Ukrainian, but that description... that description had broken my mind, bros. It's a storage facility. A warehouse. You keep things there. How many words do you need to describe a warehouse, to show that it is, in fact, a warehouse and not a space station? I don't know, maybe it was fatigue from translating the whole Story and Buildings sections, but every time i was trying to translate Storage Facility article, i couldn't find words to stretch sentence "this is a warehouse, you keep things there" through three paragraphs + Addendum ("it's bad when aliens are in your warehouse, duh").

[homunculus]

It's a storage facility. A warehouse. You keep things there.

I sympathize with you, tried some translating also, a few years ago.

I hope reading a real world Arms Room SOP (standard operating procedure) will make the storage facility translation feel like a breeze
A far as my personal opinion goes, this text (or better, a stricter one of the same type) could be customized in full extent to ufo:ai for the storage facility, if such keyboard-happy writer can be found (because, as said, the storage facility text was read out of wickedness).
Or it could mock some lengthy license agreement, GPL maybe (well, GPL is not that long, but would be close to educative at least).
Or it could say that the holy scrolls with the warehouse standards were lost, and until they are found the base commander can feel free to read GPL.

However, the translatable part of it might clarify some things:
1) aircraft equipment storage.
2) alien artifacts storage.
3) alien stiffs storage (especially as it contradicts other ufo games).
4) equipment in use by soldiers (I have accidentally sold equips worn by soldiers and discovered my soldier without a gun or ammo at the battlefield. But afaik player cannot sell, say, installed aircraft weapons, dunno about aircraft ammunition loaded in those).
5) in the future, probably also UGV storage.
6) items being researched in the lab (again, this has happened in game, sold alien medium armor; afair, the research screen looked strange before I started the time).
7) the meaning of storage capacity in practical playing, so that the player would understand how much he can really store, and if he would need to build a second one.
8 ) I doubt anyone would try to store an aircraft or a small UFO (or parts of a broken one) in storage facility, but who knows...

What comes to mind first, I would really suggest to try improving texts about
1) flasbang.
2) smoke grenade.
3) effect of weapon spread and soldiers weapon skill on bullet hole distribution in the target, maybe even include some sample images of shot targets as documentation (havn't read it, which means I would have needed to dig for it, and it is very likely that it is bit vague (me pessimistic about it)).

[TrashMan]

That bothers you?
I'm more bothered by the assault rifle being caseless, despite having a huge magazine size-wise and holding only 30 bullets, and similar things that look conflicting.

[homunculus]

in that case, shouldn't i be more bothered about deuterium poisoning that the phalanx scientists are talking about?

if i need to find and read base/ufos/weapons.ufo to get any useful info about a smoke grenade, will i be extremely cheerful about it?

[Vassilios de Veritas]

1) aircraft equipment storage.
2) alien artifacts storage.
3) alien stiffs storage (especially as it contradicts other ufo games).
4) equipment in use by soldiers (I have accidentally sold equips worn by soldiers and discovered my soldier without a gun or ammo at the battlefield. But afaik player cannot sell, say, installed aircraft weapons, dunno about aircraft ammunition loaded in those).
5) in the future, probably also UGV storage.
6) items being researched in the lab (again, this has happened in game, sold alien medium armor; afair, the research screen looked strange before I started the time).
7) the meaning of storage capacity in practical playing, so that the player would understand how much he can really store, and if he would need to build a second one.

All of those things are.. things. And when you store them... you do it in some place. For example, in a house. Storehouse. Haha. Really basic concept, you don't need a lot words to describe it because everything is obvious from the name.
As for the "i have accidentally sold EVERYTHING, GIBE MONEY PLEASE"... well, that's bad game design or technical problem, player should receive notification when he tries to sell something that's being used. Has no relation to description of a warehouse. That place where you store things.

I hope reading a real world Arms Room SOP (standard operating procedure)

Emmm, what? Storage facility is a description of a warehouse for a video game, that text in your link is a description of standard operating procedures for arms room in a real military. I don't see the connection. In fact, there should be no connection, if we want to make a fun game.
Anyway, i looked at the storage facility text again, and now i understand that it was my fatigue, and now i'm ready to translate it, do it like it's my job, you know. However, the text is dull and uninteresting, and i will not have fun while doing it. And when, if, player will be reading that description, he will feel the same.

MESSAGE FROM: Surgeon-Captain Helen Floydd, Medical Division, PHALANX, Atlantic Operations Command
MESSAGE SUBJECT: Commander, do you feel fine?
Executive Officer Howard told me you sent him an email, with a request to describe you our storage facility. He asked me to perform this task.
Well you see, commander, when people don't use things, those things usually just don't move (aka "lay around"). However (and this is important part, read carefully), some things go BOOM when you accidentally hit them or leak radiation and alien substances, so it is better if those things lay around in some safe places. Preferably, places with walls, just like room or house. In our civil life, we call those places a warehouse, a storage room, or a storeroom. But since this is military, we call it a storage facility. We are having fun, and so should you!

Commander, if you feel yourself tired or depressed, come visit me ASAP, there is nothing to be ashamed of in alcoholism. With care, doctor Helen.

Also,

In the case of an invasion, we will need all the storage space we can get. Large stores of ammunition may need to be squared away for long periods of time.

JESUS CHRIST PEOPLE, THE ALIENS ARE AT THE DOOR, GRAB THE ALL STORAGE SPACE YOU "CAN GET", FIGHT FOR IT IF YOU MUST, AND STORE THOSE HUGE PILES OF AMMUNITION THAT WERE LAYING OUTSIDE THE STORAGE FACILITY FOR SOME REASON EVEN THO THAT'S THE ONLY PLACE WHERE WE STORE IT, CAUSE WE TOTALLY GONNA FIGHT THOSE ALIENS WITH OUR GUNS THAT REQUIRE AMMUNITION!!! GOD BLESS HUMANITY AND OUR RIGHT TO GET ALL THE STORAGE SPACE WE CAN WHILE UNDER ALIEN INVASION!!!

[Hertzila]

All of those things are.. things. And when you store them... you do it in some place. For example, in a house. Storehouse. Haha. Really basic concept, you don't need a lot words to describe it because everything is obvious from the name.

Objection!
The concept is basic but what about tactical information? Many games tend to display pretty much any military storage facility or container as full of nitroglyserin ready to go off with a first bullet. Would you have guessed that a storage facility is a low priority target and the player could unload a whole clip of grenades without worrying too much?

Emmm, what? Storage facility is a description of a warehouse for a video game, that text in your link is a description of standard operating procedures for arms room in a real military. I don't see the connection. In fact, there should be no connection, if we want to make a fun game.

Objection!
Hard sci-fi (the genre UFO:AI is intended to be) usually means that stuff is kept as realistic as possible to ground the game into reality, while keeping the intended story possible. In other words, there could, if not should, very well be a connection between the two texts, since the in-game description is more or less the fictional counterpart of the real life SOP.

*quote*
JESUS CHRIST PEOPLE, THE ALIENS ARE AT THE DOOR, GRAB THE ALL STORAGE SPACE YOU "CAN GET", FIGHT FOR IT IF YOU MUST, AND STORE THOSE HUGE PILES OF AMMUNITION THAT WERE LAYING OUTSIDE THE STORAGE FACILITY FOR SOME REASON EVEN THO THAT'S THE ONLY PLACE WHERE WE STORE IT, CAUSE WE TOTALLY GONNA FIGHT THOSE ALIENS WITH OUR GUNS THAT REQUIRE AMMUNITION!!! GOD BLESS HUMANITY AND OUR RIGHT TO GET ALL THE STORAGE SPACE WE CAN WHILE UNDER ALIEN INVASION!!!

Hold it!
(Okay I stop using these. I've been playing Ace Attorney a bit too much.)
You do realize that the text reminds/means that the player should keep enough storages around so they won't run out of space when stockpiling supplies? Right now it's not that much of problem, since deliveries are instantaneous, but in the future buying stuff is supposed to happen with delays, so buying more ammo at the last minute won't cut it.

[Vassilios de Veritas]

Just finished translating the text, gonna post some feedback tomorrow or in couple of days.

Would you have guessed that a storage facility is a low priority target and the player could unload a whole clip of grenades without worrying too much?

Of course. Storage facility is a room. Walls usually do not explode or leak radiation. Containers with explosives or plutonium do. You can put those anywhere, not just a storage facility. Which is a room.

I'm not sure that "hard sci-fi" is a genre of video games. Besides, i don't think that description of "normal", casual things and activities is what science fiction is all about. Storing things in a room is not a sci-fi, alien artifacts are but not the process of storing things. But i'll talk about "casual and fascinating" in my feedback a bit later.

You do realize that the text reminds/means that the player should keep enough storages around so they won't run out of space when stockpiling supplies?

Why are you so sure that player will suddenly forget such trivial thing? Base management is not a deep process, it's kinda hard to forget to buy/sell things if  buying/selling them is like 1/4 of all operations related to base management. What are those, besides base building? Research, production, transfer (if there is a second base), market. And you don't need to read about those operations in encyclopedia, especially in the section about buildings, to perform them. Again, its a bad game design if player have to search info about such basic game actions in encyclopedia. Also, i'm not suppose to realize that, it must be obvious from text. And that part  says something about invasion, not your usual schedOH MAN WAIT A SECOND, i just realized it's from 50s, when they were only preparing for encounter. What that part with invasion is about, invasion on Earth or base? Oh man im tired, i'll go to bed.

[homunculus]

i have worked in (what i think would qualify as) a middle-sized furniture factory for a two months, enough to be somewhat disillusioned about the level of organization in such places, including the warehouse (= it is quite high).

I do agree that the base commander should not be lectured daily about the diameter of wire that is used for key rings, and how often those need to be replaced.
that is why i would prefer just a mention of some warehouse standard id and name for flavor reasons, but i would prefer it nevertheless because it is an arms room rather than an old maid's attic.

...

the problem that i see with this rewrite is that...

maybe the player is wondering if he would need to build a second warehouse in, say, a disassembly base?
maybe the player would need to compromise a workshop or a hangar for that?
how is the storage space calculated for an item, and what items are stored, suddenly becomes somewhat relevant.

if a player is reading the storage facility text out of good will, the player probably wants to know something, and you are telling the player to gtfo.

the layout of this particular text does not help to find the info someone might be looking for, and after reading the long text it turns out that the info isn't even there.

your attitude about warehouses, however, is unrealistic in my opinion.

[Vassilios de Veritas]

The Storage facility is the base's repository for ammunition, weapons, and other equipment not currently in use. All small-arms, vehicle and aircraft ammunition that is not earmarked for emergency response resides in the Storage facility.

Tautology.

Live ammunition and other sensitive equipment such as alien artifacts are kept in locked containers in the quartermaster's office behind rigorous security; checking anything out of locked storage requires the presence of the base quartermaster and written authorisation from the Command Centre.

So ammunition and alien artifacts have same value and importance? So when mission starts, bunch of people run into the quartermaster's office and start grabbing the piles of ammunition, or a forklift rides in? And while all this happening, poor quartermaster just sits behind his desk?

The Storage facility can fit a maximum of 50 standard-sized pallets of equipment. The amount of items in a pallet is relatively unimportant, size is the main restricting factor with regards to Storage facility space. The contents of each individual pallet are scrupulously tracked by magnetic labels and detailed punch-card logs.

Magnetic labels and punch-card logs. Things are scrupulously tracked. Fascinating, considering that if you don't watch for things, you lose them. Just like if you don't close the door, someone or something can freely walk in and/or walk out. If a room can't store things, you don't call it a storeroom, and if a room can't elevate things higher you don't call it an elevator.
All of this is not hard military sci-fi, it is common sense. You know why text has this problem? Because there is not much you can say about warehouse, even if it's a military facility, there is no "recommended doctrine" for warehouses. You don't need to describe standard operating procedures to tell player what storage facility does. Especially if those sop are common sense everyday non-sci-fi activities.
Idea with pallets is a nice explanation of what is storage space in UFO: AI. 1 pallet = 1 unit of space, am i right?

i have worked in (what i think would qualify as) a middle-sized furniture factory for a two months, enough to be somewhat disillusioned about the level of organization in such places, including the warehouse (= it is quite high).

I never argued about that, so... My school also had high level of organization, but reading all the rules was not an entertaining gameplay.

In the case of an invasion, we will need all the storage space we can get. Large stores of ammunition may need to be squared away for long periods of time.

I don't get this part. First of all, since when storage space is an important part in war, any war? Ammo, guns, resources, yes. But storage space? Empty space under a roof? This is ridiculous. Secondly, if this part of the text is about invasion, then why would you need to store ammo for long period of time when you need it to fight off the previously mentioned invasion? And where were ammo piles before invasion if the need to store them appears only during invasion?

During a base attack, the Storage facility would not be more than a target of opportunity. Any sensitive equipment in the facility will most likely be protected and require significant effort to destroy. Even the facility itself is cheap and easy to repair. The only threat comes from stored explosives and ammunition, which may present a risk due to the possibility of sympathetic detonation.

Still, any extraterrestrials are unlikely to spend the time and effort getting into our explosion-proof lockers when there are easier targets nearby.

Oh, so the storage facility is totally not important, and the only danger is our own rockets and 'nades. This part renders most of text above it pointless, but it's actually the most correct one. Because storage facility is a place where you store things.

I would also like to point, that in-game encyclopedia is not the only place where player will receive information concerning the storage facility. There are also gameplay information and graphical representation. Gameplay information player will receive when he'll start interacting with storage facility. What will it be?

You can't store things without a storage facility, so if you want to store things on a base you need to have it there.
Storage facility has limited storage space. If it runs out, build another one or transfer to other base.

Now lets look at graphical representation:

Shelves and cardboard boxes, some of them are open. Space, the final frontier and all that. I can imagine a slightly obese middle-aged quartermaster sitting behind that desk in lower-right corner playing solitaire and drinking coffee. Seriously tho, i'm sure that shelves and boxes, not mandatory cardboard, are what people imagine when they think of place where you store things.

the problem that i see with this rewrite is that...

That was just a joke. But yeah, here's my try:

The Storage facility is the base's repository for ammunition, weapons, and other equipment not currently in use, and it also serves as a garage for our battlefield vehicles. These remain in their bays until mission time, with fully-loaded magazines in case of a base attack.
Objects are being stored on pallets, and the Storage facility can fit a maximum of 50 standard-sized pallets of equipment. The amount of items in a pallet is relatively unimportant, size is the main restricting factor with regards to Storage facility space.

Recommended Doctrine
During a base attack, the Storage facility would not be more than a target of opportunity. Any sensitive equipment in the facility will most likely be protected and require significant effort to destroy. Even the facility itself is cheap and easy to repair.

[homunculus]

Ok, I see you wanted a fun text previously, while I was thinking more about how it would fit in with the formal heading.

Here's my preference for readability (though my formal English in not excellent):

Overview
The Storage facility is the base's repository for ammunition, weapons, and other equipment not currently in use, and a garage for battlefield vehicles.

Items
Soldier equipment (including assigned equipment and ammunition)
Ground Vehicles (not including assigned ammunition)
Aircraft equipment (not including assigned equipment and ammunition)
Alien artifacts (including items researched in lab; not including corpses and robots)
Capacity
50 standard-sized pallets.
Dependencies
Does not depend upon any other base facilities to function.

Recommended Doctrine
A dedicated production base may require two Storage facilities to keep production running smoothly.
During a base attack, the Storage facility would not be more than a target of opportunity. Sensitive equipment is stored in explosion-proof lockers. Storage facility is cheap and easy to repair.

Attachments
Standard Operating Procedure OD-1I3E5S-2653-145-816-5653-5U28-8989 Arms Room SOP (level Blue)

Of course, the game must not try to present GPL as an arms room sop, but might present is as a generic formal text.

Up to this day I have not figured out how the storage space works, except for looking at available storage space changes when I buy/sell things.

As far as I understand (and it will sound rude, but it is practical, so please don't take it personally), a good way it identify places in text that might need some attention is to try to say it and pay attention to the feeling of mouth full of porridge without much gain:

[...] equipment not currently in use, and it also serves as a garage for our battlefield vehicles. [...]

I would replace it with:

[...] equipment not currently in use, and a garage for battlefield vehicles. [...]

Especially considering that I think your version was great progress.

[Vassilios de Veritas]

I would replace it with:

Oh, i didn't pay much attention to that, just copy-pasted chunks from original. 
Honestly, this thread is really random for me. Just like i said in my first post here, it just made me recall that text and problems i had when i was working on translation. I also didn't try to make it more funny or formal, just point out some problems that would not make any text better and problems that definitely wouldn't make any video game entertaining.

Items
Soldier equipment (including assigned equipment and ammunition)
Ground Vehicles (not including assigned ammunition)
Aircraft equipment (not including assigned equipment and ammunition)
Alien artifacts (including items researched in lab; not including corpses and robots)

Emm, including-not including parts look ugly, too repetitive and long.

Up to this day I have not figured out how the storage space works, except for looking at available storage space changes when I buy/sell things.

Uhm, so maybe we need additional counter with available/occupied storage space?

[homunculus]

Oh, don't worry, I am regularly puzzled about why I didn't create this thread in offtopic section, just to rant and nitpick on this low-priority text.

To my knowledge, repetitiveness is not necessarily a bad thing in such list.
Especially as it is meant to be skipped over if the reader is not interested in stored item types.
But it does look ugly, any better ideas how the same info could be said in a different way?

If I understood you correctly, there already is such counter.
Didn't check again, but I think the items take up different storage space, and the thing I have not understood is the logic behind it (I don't mean common sense logic, I mean the rules).