project-navigation
Personal tools

Author Topic: Track - Return Journey  (Read 16144 times)

Offline Mattn

  • Administrator
  • PHALANX Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 4831
  • https://github.com/mgerhardy/vengi
    • View Profile
    • Vengi Voxel Tools
Re: Track - Return Journey
« Reply #15 on: April 02, 2010, 09:18:34 am »
applied this to trunk - thanks

Offline Gren

  • Squad Leader
  • ****
  • Posts: 165
    • View Profile
Re: Track - Return Journey
« Reply #16 on: April 02, 2010, 09:49:34 pm »
applied this to trunk - thanks

No - my thanks to you  :D

Bit of a delay on the revised version - (Good Friday etc...) but about half-way through the re-hash, so slow progress.. but I'm pleased with it so far.  ;D ;) Should be up in a day or so, but from a different download location - too big for CC-Wiki.

Offline Gren

  • Squad Leader
  • ****
  • Posts: 165
    • View Profile
Re: Track - Return Journey
« Reply #17 on: April 04, 2010, 06:12:01 pm »
Return Journey r03.

Not quite 20 minutes though MCR ;)

Extended to 3 times original length, so it runs for around 9 minutes. Added some unexciting ambient sections and incorporated another idea/impression somewhere in the middle. Fade-in Acc Guitar with other instruments and a heavy lead synth joining in.

@Hertzila
I changed the Old Grand piano voice for a standard Grand and routed it through a reverb unit with a medium room setting - came out not too bad and makes the voice a little more interesting. (I know you liked the piano bit!)  :D

File is a little over 10 MB (9.91 zipped) http://www.filefactory.com/f/9c20a8e270c4224a/

I was really wondering, rather than trying to create really long tracks, which end up being quite large files, wouldn't it be better/operationally economical to have smaller tracks with track changes during a mission?  This whole track mixed down to a 150 MB .wav. The ogg conversion took it down to around 10. But even so, there must be some kind of effect when loading?

Offline MCR

  • PHALANX veteran
  • ******
  • Posts: 1244
    • View Profile
Re: Track - Return Journey
« Reply #18 on: April 04, 2010, 06:39:47 pm »
Hey Gren !
I love the ambient part, this is EXACTLY what this game needs regarding the background music during missions.
It is an opera now ;)  ;D :D !

BTW, I found that this is quite nice for uploading stuff:
http://www.hyperupload.com/
Maybe you want to check this one out 4 your next upload.


I was really wondering, rather than trying to create really long tracks, which end up being quite large files, wouldn't it be better/operationally economical to have smaller tracks with track changes during a mission? 

That's what I meant in my previous post, when I wrote about sound system changes ;)
But having smaller tracks with track changes is not exactly what I was thinking about ;)
It would be a step, but then it could happen that very different styles would be played during 1 mission, so  ::)

If you want a track change in the current version of the game you just have to press ESC twice on battlescape, that will fade one track out & another one in ;). I use this 'unknown feature' very often when I play ;)

I thought it would be a nice idea to have something like a dynamic soundtrack, which changes depending on the situation on the battlefield, but that would require quite some work from the coding side, but also from the artists' side, because they would have to revisit their tracks & make shorter different loops of the same tracks suited for not yet defined 'situations' on the battlescape ;)

So this whole stuff would require lot of work, but the effects would be quite nice IMHO...


GREAT TRACK, GREN !!!


Offline Hertzila

  • Sergeant
  • *****
  • Posts: 469
    • View Profile
Re: Track - Return Journey
« Reply #19 on: April 04, 2010, 08:20:44 pm »
Great work Gren! Very nice track! The original parts are perfect (the new piano sounds great!) and the stuff in-between is good.

Now the more negative comments: Sorry to bug you with this yet again but the 1:58-6:48 could use a bit more variation (you can freely say if I like variation too much). As I said it's good but after a couple of minutes it gets a bit repetitive. You could add a new instrument there or some variation of the existing ones at some point. This isn't a major problem (if even a minor one) at any rate though.
The part that begins at 4:40 sounds somewhat... disconnected. Like it doesn't belong in this track. It doesn't ruin the track but neither does it sound good IMO.


But still:
GREAT TRACK, GREN!

Offline Mattn

  • Administrator
  • PHALANX Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 4831
  • https://github.com/mgerhardy/vengi
    • View Profile
    • Vengi Voxel Tools
Re: Track - Return Journey
« Reply #20 on: April 04, 2010, 08:45:50 pm »
commited the updated version to trunk - thanks for the work

Offline Gren

  • Squad Leader
  • ****
  • Posts: 165
    • View Profile
Re: Track - Return Journey
« Reply #21 on: April 04, 2010, 09:12:45 pm »
Hey Gren !
I love the ambient part, this is EXACTLY what this game needs regarding the background music during missions.
It is an opera now ;)  ;D :D !

Oh thanks MCR! - but it's no opera. (I can't really sing  :D :D )

Quote
BTW, I found that this is quite nice for uploading stuff:
http://www.hyperupload.com/
Maybe you want to check this one out 4 your next upload.

I've bookmarked this & will check it out later - ty!

Quote
I thought it would be a nice idea to have something like a dynamic soundtrack, which changes depending on the situation on the battlefield, but that would require quite some work from the coding side, but also from the artists' side, because they would have to revisit their tracks & make shorter different loops of the same tracks suited for not yet defined 'situations' on the battlescape ;)

So this whole stuff would require lot of work, but the effects would be quite nice IMHO..

Well just like Map Designers and Graphics artists, we musicians like a little guidance too, so ideas of format come in very handy when approaching a writing task.  :-\

Thank you for the input - it's really great!!  :)

Offline Gren

  • Squad Leader
  • ****
  • Posts: 165
    • View Profile
Re: Track - Return Journey
« Reply #22 on: April 04, 2010, 09:28:11 pm »
Great work Gren! Very nice track! The original parts are perfect (the new piano sounds great!) and the stuff in-between is good.

Thanks Hertzila  :D
Quote
Now the more negative comments: Sorry to bug you with this yet again but the 1:58-6:48 could use a bit more variation.
I really do agree that this section is lacking instrumental variation, but it's just an attempt at putting together a period of background interval, that plays when the mission is in full swing - not good to just sit & listen to....  :(
Quote
The part that begins at 4:40 sounds somewhat... disconnected. Like it doesn't belong in this track. It doesn't ruin the track but neither does it sound good IMO.

Sorry you think it sounds out of place.. probably I could have integrated it a little better.

Quote
But still:
GREAT TRACK, GREN!
Thank you! - I do appreciate your input  ;D

Offline Gren

  • Squad Leader
  • ****
  • Posts: 165
    • View Profile
Re: Track - Return Journey
« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2010, 09:29:01 pm »
commited the updated version to trunk - thanks for the work

Thanks Mattn - no worries..  ;)

Offline MCR

  • PHALANX veteran
  • ******
  • Posts: 1244
    • View Profile
Re: Track - Return Journey
« Reply #24 on: April 05, 2010, 12:22:50 am »
Gren, just a short question:
Is this the final version in your opinion or would you revisit the track one last time for some final adjustments if you get some constructive criticism ?
 :-[
If you like I will  :-X also  ;)  ;D

Offline Gren

  • Squad Leader
  • ****
  • Posts: 165
    • View Profile
Re: Track - Return Journey
« Reply #25 on: April 05, 2010, 02:59:09 am »
Hey MCR - I'll revisit the track as many times as is needed if you point me in the right direction for any suggested  improvements.. I don't mind at all.  :D It looks like the deviation with the Acoustic guitar section didn't work too well. (although I like it)  ::)

I'm working on a new track atm (experimenting with choir pads and stuff) to try and stop myself whistling bits from Return Journey - it kinda hooks into you after a while..  :D

Some of the Midi work I did with Cakewalk PA9 (now Sonar - my version is a little outdated, but I found Reason much cheaper and with a much wider scope for sampling and patching)

Normally I leave my tracks EQ Free, but I patched in a 2 band EQ for one of the synths and played with that for a while - nice :) There are also some nice voices on my old Korg O5/RW module, but I need to revisit the tuts to re-sample them - all good fun I guess.

Please feel free to throw suggestions/crits at the tracks - I will take it the right way hehehe!  ???

Offline MCR

  • PHALANX veteran
  • ******
  • Posts: 1244
    • View Profile
Re: Track - Return Journey
« Reply #26 on: April 05, 2010, 01:47:53 pm »
Hey Gren !

I would think that you have to revisit this track just 1 last time to finalize & polish it  ;).

What IMHO should be changed is this:

1. You did not touch the drums  :'(, the ever-repeating 'DUM DAM DA DA DA', which starts 0:11 is just not good enough for this great melody & pushes itself to the foreground too much. Instead of editing the drumz, I would simply mute the whole drum-channel & build a new, more complex one with more variation (build a complex multi-volume hi-hat theme there, which underlines the melody without nerving ;)) [The good thing about electronic drumz is that you can play them so precise, complex & subtle like no real drummer could do.]

2. I really like the way you slide into the break, especially this ultra-short silence @ 1:57. I agree with Hertzila that the ambient part could need some rework, but I think here is very little work needed. If you have some nice filters, here is the part to use them to break monotony & enhance creepiness (1:58-4:18).

3. I like the part from 4:30-6:07. Again you slide into that part very nicely with nothing more audible than the wind. It somehow reminds me of being pulled into the middle-ages, but the wind still keeping you in 2084 ;)

4. 6:08 brings you finally back into the future again, the part until you get back to the melody again (6:48) needs no rework IMO

5. 6:48-9:03 - The Final Part - I think you now what bugs me here ;)

Thanx 4 your work, man !

Offline Gren

  • Squad Leader
  • ****
  • Posts: 165
    • View Profile
Re: Track - Return Journey
« Reply #27 on: April 05, 2010, 03:39:35 pm »
I agree the drum track was initially a basic beat-keeper, but I did add a few rolls and variations, but obviously not enough to notice. I didn't really want to use sequenced loops - but maybe I had better explore the idea.  :o

Your preferences are different to Hertzilas in that you seem to like the section that begins with the wind (the acoustic guitar fade-in) and Hertzila seems to think it sounds out of place and not associated. I'll look again at this section.

The only other point you raise is re the ambient section and filtering - do you mean pan effects/modulation/after-touch or are you suggesting adding more instruments/synths? If so, I would need to daisy-chain another 14:2 mixer.  ;) If I do that, I may just make that re-visit to look at sampling the patches on my O5/RW, which means it will be a while before I upload another version.

Thank you for the input MCR - much, much appreciated...  :D ;D ;D

Offline Hertzila

  • Sergeant
  • *****
  • Posts: 469
    • View Profile
Re: Track - Return Journey
« Reply #28 on: April 05, 2010, 04:09:17 pm »
To elaborate my opinion on the 4:30-6:07, it suffers from a bad mood whiplash in my opinion. At first it's (the whole track, not the 4:30-6:07) futuristic sounding with a slight bit of piano, then a bit strange sounding switch (only a bit strange, it's mainly the one part at 1:51 where you switch between the two notes very fast, still not bad sounding), then a still futuristic ambient and then suddenly we completely switch into a medieval castle hall. It's just too big of a change and doesn't fit IMO. I'd recommend you somehow keeping the futuristic feel in there too.

It seems me and MCR are having a disagreement on this part.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2010, 04:11:55 pm by Hertzila »

Offline MCR

  • PHALANX veteran
  • ******
  • Posts: 1244
    • View Profile
Re: Track - Return Journey
« Reply #29 on: April 05, 2010, 04:24:37 pm »

Your preferences are different to Hertzilas in that you seem to like the section that begins with the wind (the acoustic guitar fade-in) and Hertzila seems to think it sounds out of place and not associated. I'll look again at this section.


I agree with Hertila that it sounds a little disconnected or 'out of place', but I like that very much - this brings true variation & twist to this whole thing, it brings me somehow into the middle-ages, I cannot tell you more...  ;)

The only other point you raise is re the ambient section and filtering - do you mean pan effects/modulation/after-touch or are you suggesting adding more instruments/synths? If so, I would need to daisy-chain another 14:2 mixer.  ;) If I do that, I may just make that re-visit to look at sampling the patches on my O5/RW, which means it will be a while before I upload another version.

I mean just FX, something like some nice VST-plugins added to make the looped ambient stuff variate a little bit more & also to guide the listener through this ambient phase & enhance creepiness there. Pan-FX can be nice too & can add to atmosphere a lot, when ambient sounds change their 'location', but I do not think it is really necessary to add instruments, I would rather wish to hear those new instruments in your next track  ;)

@Hertzila:
I do not disagree so much with you, I also see the 'medieval castle hall' somehow  :D, but I like it - that is the only difference, it is somehow integrated, brings a fresh melody & the wind in the background somehow holds all of this together...