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Author Topic: Automatic weapons upgrades? .... and also ammo as a weapon function?...  (Read 9467 times)

Offline zapkitty

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In order to keep more of the games variety of human-style weapons as valid playing options later in the game would it be possible to have certain research projects automatically upgrade similar technologies that are used in existing weapons?

An example: the side effects of coilgun power supply research and alien materials studies results in an enhanced magazine being available for bolter rifles that increases selected bolter stats with little or no extra research needed.

And speaking of bolters I noticed that ammunition capacity is a function of the weapon itself, and not of the magazine. It seems contradictory and in the case of the bolter does not allow the increase in ammo capacity that would naturally come with more efficient power supplies in the magazine.

It does seem odd and it gets in the way of implementing the banana clips for the full-auto coilguns ;D
 

Offline Viento

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Yes, something like:

"Good morning Sir, there is (again for the 4035th time) bad news. The new armour (=medium one) you brought in is almost inpenetrable to our normal infantry weapons and lasers. We must analyse it to find out what we can do about that. As long as we don't have a solution, engage with extreme caution...."   something like that, resulting in:

"We found out a way of upgrading our standard weaponry with alien technology, so that it can penetrate the newly discovered armour. [+ add reason that fits the tech-tree]"

Goal: Keep all the weapons as acceptable options in the game instead of allowing them to become useless. Let the player make the choice of what to field against the aliens. 

Andy

Offline Gren

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Yep - I agree here. There's some brilliant weapons that become almost useless and sadly fall by the way as the game progresses. I think it would be a great asset to try and keep as many as possible updated/upgraded so that they can be chosen as an alternative for diversity, rather than the selection of weapons over each other for their power factor.  ;)

Offline zapkitty

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Goal: Keep all the weapons as acceptable options in the game instead of allowing them to become useless. Let the player make the choice of what to field against the aliens. 

That's a little broad, I think... It's unlikely that the 9mm pistol or even the assault rifle would be upgraded to tackle medium armor :)

But keeping a broader viable inventory would be fun.

And if the devs feel that the alien weapons array needs more variety that's always an option... I've got a couple weird ideas :)

Offline Sarin

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Or a hybrid technology perhaps? Plasma tech might have a lot of side uses, from propulsion to plasma "flamethrowers".

Offline Viento

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Why shouldn't, for example, a re-engineered assault rifle with an alien material barrel, a newly researched charge and bullets made of ultra-dense alien material be good enough to stay in use and do damage? In a fantastic world like UFO AI, I see no real reason why not even the (re-engineered = tuned) smallest pistol should be able to do a reasonable amount of damage in late-game.   

Andy

Offline Hertzila

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Why shouldn't, for example, a re-engineered assault rifle with an alien material barrel, a newly researched charge and bullets made of ultra-dense alien material be good enough to stay in use and do damage? In a fantastic world like UFO AI, I see no real reason why not even the (re-engineered = tuned) smallest pistol should be able to do a reasonable amount of damage in late-game.   

Andy

Alien propellant (plasma?) instead of gunpowder, bullets made out of alien materials and all the parts of AR(/any other gun) reinforced with nanotubes to whitstand it all. And if possible make the penetrator from the same stuff Kerrblade uses and you have an anti-materiel assault rifle.

Offline DiDiT

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Upgraded rounds and weapon research options does sound interesting.

What about plasma rockets for the rocket launcher? they did it for the grenade launcher after all, so why not jam a plasma grenade into a rocket, eh? 

and maybe, by using the monomolecular blade research, they look into monomolecular point armour piercing rounds? and, based off that and plasma research, they could even develop a type of plasma based delayed-explosive armour-piercing rounds? (or 'plasma DEAP rounds' for short)?


Offline Hertzila

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and maybe, by using the monomolecular blade research, they look into monomolecular point armour piercing rounds? and, based off that and plasma research, they could even develop a type of plasma based delayed-explosive armour-piercing rounds? (or 'plasma DEAP rounds' for short)?

It has the problem that the kerrmaterial requires curved form to keep it from breaking but like I said if succesfully fitted inside an AP round as penetrator (or whatever the part designed to penetrate armor is called) it would be the mother of all AP rounds. Couple that with alien propellant (plasma experts please tell me, is plasma possible for that?) and the whole bullet made out of some heavy and sturdy (alien) material and you have a VERY lethal weapon.

Plasma explosive rounds would be out of bounds unfortunately. Most of the bullets PHALANX uses are simply too small for explosives. SHIVA could use both new plasma explosives and kerr-AP rounds though.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2010, 07:45:39 pm by Hertzila »

Offline thunktone

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Making the 9mm pistol and assault rifle more powerful makes little sense to me. If you want such weapons then use desert eagles and battle rifles. Small arms are small because that's what the soldiers can handle not because we lack the technology to make more powerful guns.

Offline Sarin

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Re: Automatic weapons upgrades? .... and also ammo as a weapon function?...
« Reply #10 on: March 06, 2010, 06:13:39 pm »
Small arms are small because that's what the soldiers can handle...

Exactly why Desret Eagles 0.5 AE aren't, despite many action movies you probably have seen, used by any sensible military force. What you need from handgun is to be able to quickly draw it and fire with one hand, something impossible with DE. Btw, the pistol used is UFA AI isn't 9mm. Read ufopaedia a bit.

And what are those "battle rifles" of yours supposed to be? High caliber ARs? I'm sorry that's impossible unless you want to treat your soldiers with dislodged shoulder after they try to fire burst from it.

Offline zapkitty

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Re: Automatic weapons upgrades? .... and also ammo as a weapon function?...
« Reply #11 on: March 06, 2010, 09:34:22 pm »
And what are those "battle rifles" of yours supposed to be? High caliber ARs? I'm sorry that's impossible unless you want to treat your soldiers with dislodged shoulder after they try to fire burst from it.

Well. they did try to adapt the classic battle rifle's 30.06 rounds to an assault rifle format when AR's were first being introduced and those didn't dislocate shoulders... but neither could the troops hit anything when firing bursts... :)

Offline Sarin

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Re: Automatic weapons upgrades? .... and also ammo as a weapon function?...
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2010, 10:21:22 pm »
That was 30.06 rounds. Those don't kick that much..muzzle energy of .50 BMG round is five times higher. Also, higher caliber also means longer barrel, while ARs have to be short and flexible enough for medium to close range engagements.

Offline DiDiT

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Re: Automatic weapons upgrades? .... and also ammo as a weapon function?...
« Reply #13 on: March 06, 2010, 10:48:43 pm »
SHIVA could use both new plasma explosives and kerr-AP rounds though.

I second that.

I normally swap out my Shiva's for rocket pods and targeting computers as soon as possible. more ammo like this for it would defiantly bring back my interest in it.

higher caliber also means longer barrel, while ARs have to be short and flexible enough for medium to close range engagements.

I second that also.

A weapon has to fit the role it was designed for. not to mention that rigging a AR to fire higher cal rounds would make a whole new weapon, not a upgraded AR, as you wouldn't then be able to use normal rounds. In my view, an upgraded weapon has to be better in some aspect to its predecessor and the same on all other aspects. but then again, whether or not round size counts as a aspect is, and if larger is better, is debatable.



Offline Sarin

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Re: Automatic weapons upgrades? .... and also ammo as a weapon function?...
« Reply #14 on: March 06, 2010, 11:39:13 pm »
Really, applications of the kerrblade and plasma tech is extreme. New shotgun shells, for example, new kinds of ammo.

But not just these. Lasers, for example, could also be adapted as projectile propulsion, especially in combination with another, like plasma or EM propulsion. Plasma can be used for engines, too, if EM focusing like the one in PB weapons is used. Perhaps later in game, this could become a new type of propulsion, striking middle ground between speed of AM engines and fuel availability of jet engines.