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Offline joe davis

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Production Menu
« on: January 31, 2010, 06:12:11 pm »
I would like more detailed information in the Production Menu.  I would like the item autosell checkbox like is present in the buy\sell menu.  I would like a listing of the price I can sell the item for listed so that when my workers are not generating supply production I can have them generate revenue.  I would also like a listing of the quantity I have of each item and how many is available from sellers, like is currently listed in the buy\sell menu, so I can make a better informed decision on what needs produced for supplies without jumping to the buy\sell menu. 

Basically I want the buy\sell information in the production menu so that I can make a better informed decision on production without having to go to the buy\sell menu. :P

Offline Hertzila

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Re: Production Menu
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2010, 11:27:08 pm »
No revenue generation from producing items. Devs have made it clear they don't like that idea.

Offline joe davis

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Re: Production Menu
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2010, 11:52:19 pm »
Hmmm, that silly. :D  What is auto sell for? ::)  Regardless, don't change the fact that I would like to be able to manage my supply production without jumping back to buy\sell all the time.  Maybe I don't need pricing information then, but I could definitely use the quantity on hand and quantity available by sellers to request production to avoid supply shortages. :-\ 

Offline geever

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Re: Production Menu
« Reply #3 on: February 01, 2010, 12:04:14 am »
Hmmm, that silly. :D  What is auto sell for? ::)  Regardless, don't change the fact that I would like to be able to manage my supply production without jumping back to buy\sell all the time.  Maybe I don't need pricing information then, but I could definitely use the quantity on hand and quantity available by sellers to request production to avoid supply shortages. :-\ 

Autosell is for selling unused items collected in missions. It doesn't even work with producing.

-geever

Offline joe davis

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Re: Production Menu
« Reply #4 on: February 01, 2010, 06:56:24 am »
Makes sense.  Me slow sometimes. ::)  Thanks for feedback.

Offline Xune

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Re: Production Menu
« Reply #5 on: February 01, 2010, 10:45:39 pm »
I've been thinking along the same lines as Joe. Currently the Buy/Sell and Production screens repeat information while omitting sections that would actually be useful. Take a look at the two shots below, the sections in red are common to both where as those in yellow are unique.

Buy/Sell


Production


As you can see, there isn't much unique content. It's pretty stodgy, taken up with repeat info and empty space.

I've mocked up some shots of a combined Buy/Sell/Production screen, which could simply be named Equipment in the base view. It conveys all the info of both screens and more.



Allow me to talk you through this first shot. Using the Buy/Sell screen as a base, the Disassembly tab has been brought across. Starting from the list of equipment you have:

  • Autosell
  • Item name
  • Current quantity in base
  • 1x Incrementation *
  • 10x Incrementation *
  • Incremented value vs Items on the market

*Only shown when a piece of equipment is selected otherwise we get unsightly repetition of x1 and x10 all over the place.

Currently the assault rifle has been selected and incremented to a value of 12. This value is contextualised later.

Moving left we have workers available, production lines and storage. I've removed workshop capacity as it is simply a reiteration of the maximum number of workers available. I've renamed production limit to production lines as this made more sense to me. The word "limit" implied that I couldn't produce more equipment than the limit, it actually is the number of jobs you can queue, therefore production lines made more sense. I've set this to an arbitrary value of 5, based on nothing other than I liked the shape of the number :)

Below that is the item overview which contextualises the selections made in the item menu. Below the item name, picture and UFOpedia link, we see the purchase, sale and production values. The first two are greyed out as there are no rifles to buy and there are less than 12 to sell, only produce is available. Below is a summary of the item.

Clicking produce would add the job to the production queue below the item list, adding all available workers to the job and immediately debiting the cost of the entire job. This is further expanded in the shot below.



This job has now been running for 16 hours, you can see the total production time as well as the next items completion time. The contextual area to the left has also changed when selecting the job, allowing you to alter the number of workers and items in the job and reporting how this will affect production time and costs.

Regarding using production as a means to generating revenue independently of the supporting nations, whether it's intended or not it's very possible using the current build. This can be counteracted in a few ways, firstly by requiring production costs to be paid upfront for a job, therefore reducing the likelyhood of mass production queues. This however will only inhibit those with little cash, in the event the player already has a decent balance you can bring market forces into play. With a hidden supply and demand value for each item, when the player starts flooding the market with high margin items, sale price will start to fall as supply is met. Eventually the item will be worth little more than production costs.

Please let me know what you think. I'm pretty keen to try and implement this, I'm no programmer but I'm a quick learner.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2010, 07:23:50 am by Mattn »

Offline Destructavator

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Re: Production Menu
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2010, 11:24:06 pm »
I personally like this idea, with the proposed layout - I don't know how much coding work would be involved though.

Offline Mattn

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Re: Production Menu
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2010, 07:25:38 am »
i like it, too - but there are some problems with it. what if a base does not have a workshop? you can't produce anything without a workshop. Also some parts are only producable, some only buyable - this all must be kept in mind while implementing this.

implementing this would also change the way the menu is triggered from the base view - any ideas here?

Offline Xune

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Re: Production Menu
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2010, 01:30:03 pm »
Nice, glad you guys like it.

On your points Mattn:

If a base doesn't have a workshop you would simply grey out the produce button. A tool tip could indicate "No Workshop in Base" perhaps.

For items that are only meant to be produced and not bought, they would have a permanent market presence of 0, meaning that the buy option could never be activated. Any quantities of this item sold by the player would not reach the market, on sale the item is removed from inventory and credit balance increased, nothing more.

Likewise, if something isn't meant to be producible only bought it could be given a null production value which the logic that enables or disables the produce button would interpret as meaning "don't enable". A tool tip would indicate "We Can't Produce This Item" and perhaps an entry in the UFOpedia article indicating why, storywise.

Regarding the base view Menu, I have proposed: "a combined Buy/Sell/Production screen, which could simply be named Equipment in the base view."
« Last Edit: February 02, 2010, 01:32:15 pm by Xune »

Offline geever

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Re: Production Menu
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2010, 01:52:39 pm »
For items that are only meant to be produced and not bought, they would have a permanent market presence of 0, meaning that the buy option could never be activated. Any quantities of this item sold by the player would not reach the market, on sale the item is removed from inventory and credit balance increased, nothing more.

What you can't buy you can't sell even..

You can't set how much workers should work on an item with the current system. All workers work on the first item in the queue.

The market (buying/selling) doesn't work as it should and will be reimplemented as a special transfer. For that this UI is not suitable.

PS. we're speaking about a "not-for-2.3" feature

-geever

Offline Xune

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Re: Production Menu
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2010, 02:32:59 pm »
Hi Geever.

If an item shouldn't bought OR sold that just gets a null value for both, the only option is to produce.

With the current system all workers are piled into the first project however you can select how many workers are involved in a project by hiring and firing them. The production time does scale according to the number of workers:



What I'm proposing is a system identical to the one used for research which would allow you to distribute workers across projects. This would be especially useful to be able to manufacture ammunition along side their fire arms or to produce other items while a large project like an aircraft is currently in production.

You last point is interesting. I did some looking around the wiki but couldn't see anything relating to the production or buy/sell systems. If you could elaborate on the idea perhaps this system can be altered to accommodate it.

Offline Xune

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Re: Production Menu
« Reply #11 on: February 04, 2010, 06:37:46 pm »
Hello?

I appreciate I'm not a programmer and things are more complex than they appear but other then this "special transfer" I can't see why this doesn't make a very nice fit with the game. If you've got anything written down regarding this feature I can see if there's any way to reconcile the two or at least put my mid to rest that it won't work as development continues and drop the subject.

Cheers.

Offline geever

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Re: Production Menu
« Reply #12 on: February 04, 2010, 07:02:46 pm »
I appreciate I'm not a programmer and things are more complex than they appear but other then this "special transfer" I can't see why this doesn't make a very nice fit with the game. If you've got anything written down regarding this feature I can see if there's any way to reconcile the two or at least put my mid to rest that it won't work as development continues and drop the subject.

Nothing really written down but these feature requests:
Convert Market to a special Transfer
confirm buying/selling

Briefly  market should have a shopping cart like stuff, and buying (ordering) should happen when clicked a button. So market's and production's interface may not fit on one screen or get too crowded.

If you have an idea for that, share. (I was thinking about using the bottom list on your UI plan for the cart but it can be misleading.)

Originally I've planned to make a common transfer-buy/sell dialog btw.

-geever

Offline joe davis

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Re: Production Menu
« Reply #13 on: February 05, 2010, 12:57:15 am »
what about using a pop up menu for the transfer and purchase "cart".  There could be a hotspot or button  that when clicked will bring up the cart to view or verify the information.  Also if there were any changes done in buying, selling, or transferring then the cart could pop up on exiting the equipment management screen if the changes haven't already been saved.  The cart could allow for the increment or decrement of requested purchased items, along with displaying the time to receive purchases or transfers(a feature that seems to be lacking in the current build in regards to xfer times).  This pop up cart would provide for verification of changes and\or  transfer time feedback for both the purchase and transfer requests. 

I would then recommend moving the 1x and 10x spinners next to the purchase button (we would only need 1 and it would be quicker to reach the produce button) and placing the increment\decrement arrows, not sure what they are called but as are seen in the transfer screen, where the 1x 10x spinners are currently positioned in Xune's layout.  I would also recommend placing a market cost text list so we can see the costs of the items on the rows.  And lastly placing a transfer button next to the buy, sell, and produce buttons.

Just an idea.

Offline geever

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Re: Production Menu
« Reply #14 on: February 05, 2010, 11:10:36 am »
what about using a pop up menu for the transfer and purchase "cart".  There could be a hotspot or button  that when clicked will bring up the cart to view or verify the information.  Also if there were any changes done in buying, selling, or transferring then the cart could pop up on exiting the equipment management screen if the changes haven't already been saved.  The cart could allow for the increment or decrement of requested purchased items, along with displaying the time to receive purchases or transfers(a feature that seems to be lacking in the current build in regards to xfer times).  This pop up cart would provide for verification of changes and\or  transfer time feedback for both the purchase and transfer requests. 

Popup would be a nightmare imho.

-geever