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Author Topic: some questions about the single player campaign (balancing for example)  (Read 3471 times)

Offline ChemBro

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First of all: Thanks for the game. I'm having lots of fun!  ;D

I'm playing 2.3-dev and have some questions about it (about the single player campaign).

1.) It's November 2084 for me (on easy difficulty, not the super easy one). At the beginning of the game I had about 4 enemies on every mission. "Now" there are 8 enemies and I guess there will be 12 at the end of the game (which I never saw). That's okay and frustrating at the same time. Okay, because it's getting harder (and you get better weapons). Frustrating, because you can only have 8 crew-member in one mission (as far as I know) and I am, if I read the wiki correctly, at a point, where I don't get any new weapon and no new armour (this nano-thing was the last one, for me the only armour, you can get through research, after getting the first alien-armour).

So, I'm facing more and more aliens and they get better weapons and armour (they have the second armour). It's okay in a "normal" mission (terror mission) and in a mission against a shot harvester, because a harvester is a big ship. But against a scout or fighter? According to the ingame ufopedia, scouts and fighters only have 3 seats and on the map, I can spot 4 tiles, where an alien can possibly stand. So in a mission against a shot scout or fighter I should only face 4 aliens at max. The problem for me now is: In a shot fighter mission, there are 1, maybe 2 possible maps on which I can win, without being annihilated in the first round, because the aliens don't see me. On the other maps, I have no chance to get some of my crew-member in cover, because if I shoot or walk with them, 3 - 4 aliens shoot at him/her and he/she will probably be dead after the second shooting. So in order to survive, I'm hitting "replay" until I get the map, where I can possibly win.

What's my point? Or question. My question is: Will there be a "alien cap" for scout/fighter missions? Because facing 8 aliens on that little map is not easy (and I'm playing on easy). Also for me, 8 aliens in one scout/fighter is somehow illogical.

2.) As I stated in the first question: I only got one new armour (the nano-thing). Will there be a better researchable armour in 2.3-final? And how can I get the "advanced standard" armour (the one I see, when I equip my crew, the one, which is greyed out [is this the right word?])? This armour is also in ufopedia, but I cannot buy it and cannot produce it.

3.) Same for weapons, maybe. In my crew, I have 2 sniper rifles, 1 grenade launcher (or rocket launcher) and 4 - 5 bolter rifles (1 electrolaser for stunning aliens). According to the wiki (and for me), I think, there is nothing better than the standard sniper rifle (range and damage) and bolter rifle (range (?), damage and it is fast enough for reaction fire). The laser weapons are too weak (especially against aliens with the second armour). My crew with bolter (and reaction fire) will live without any damage in some situations, with laser weapons maybe one will get killed.

Okay, my point is more like: Sniper rifle, grenade launcher and bolter rifle (and electrolaser). I don't need more, looks like (from my experience), these are the best weapons, why should I research for other weapons? (And I don't like the alien weapons.)

4.) I can buy infrared goggles. But I don't know how to use them. I click on that goggle-icon, but nothing happens. How can I use them and for what? (I haven't figured out, what they do.)

5.) Will there be some sort of "alien/lifeform radar" for the maps? Because on a base attack-mission (or a mission on a big map) it may take a very long time finding the last alien (and then see a dead crew-member...). Some sort of "lifeform radar" would be nice.

6.) None of my crew-members ranged up and they shot many aliens. My best one is, I guess: 52 missions, 53 kills. I oftentimes clicked on this automatic missions, because I don't want to fight every time. So is this my problem (clicking on automatic mission)? When does a soldier rang up and what is the benefit?

That's that, I guess.  :D

EDIT: Oh, shoot! This is the bug forum? I guess the discussion forum would be the better one, or not?
« Last Edit: November 29, 2009, 12:59:13 pm by ChemBro »

Offline Kildor

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Re: some questions about the single player campaign (balancing for example)
« Reply #1 on: November 29, 2009, 02:24:56 pm »
can you attach your save to test?

My opinion:
1. Is definitely bug. Ufopaedia should have more correct in this question.
2. I`m afraid no.
3. I prefer to use flamethrower, because it is excellent weapon in buildings, but in current trunk that types of maps is lack a bit. Also coilgun is very nice, but it appear late in game.
4. they aren`t work currently.

Offline theotherhiveking

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Re: some questions about the single player campaign (balancing for example)
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2009, 02:34:43 pm »
Hi, I assume you are playing 2.3.



Quote
It's November 2084 for me (on easy difficulty, not the super easy one). At the beginning of the game I had about 4 enemies on every mission. "Now" there are 8 enemies and I guess there will be 12 at the end of the game (which I never saw). That's okay and frustrating at the same time. Okay, because it's getting harder (and you get better weapons). Frustrating, because you can only have 8 crew-member in one mission (as far as I know) and I am, if I read the wiki correctly, at a point, where I don't get any new weapon and no new armour (this nano-thing was the last one, for me the only armour, you can get through research, after getting the first alien-armour).

Well, iirc there are (or there will be) drops ships that will let you field more soldiers and even ugvs (Small tanks); That is what the wiki says, maybe the plans changed.

Also there is crash damage, but it didnt notice it until a dev said it was in, so either it is too subtle or the corpses should be spawned so you can see how helpful it was.

Quote
So, I'm facing more and more aliens and they get better weapons and armour (they have the second armour). It's okay in a "normal" mission (terror mission) and in a mission against a shot harvester, because a harvester is a big ship. But against a scout or fighter? According to the ingame ufopedia, scouts and fighters only have 3 seats and on the map, I can spot 4 tiles, where an alien can possibly stand. So in a mission against a shot scout or fighter I should only face 4 aliens at max. The problem for me now is: In a shot fighter mission, there are 1, maybe 2 possible maps on which I can win, without being annihilated in the first round, because the aliens don't see me. On the other maps, I have no chance to get some of my crew-member in cover, because if I shoot or walk with them, 3 - 4 aliens shoot at him/her and he/she will probably be dead after the second shooting. So in order to survive, I'm hitting "replay" until I get the map, where I can possibly win.

There are already new armors planned or even ingame (not sure if completed), you can check them out creating a team in multiplayer.
I agree in that the crew of some ufos should be limited.

Quote
2.) As I stated in the first question: I only got one new armour (the nano-thing). Will there be a better researchable armour in 2.3-final? And how can I get the "advanced standard" armour (the one I see, when I equip my crew, the one, which is greyed out [is this the right word?])? This armour is also in ufopedia, but I cannot buy it and cannot produce it.

Is that the Advanced standard armor? I thought it was the nano-composite one. Again, you can check them in the multiplayer team menu, there are new models in the works, so these likely will get ingame in 2.4, I hope it takes less time to get released :p.

Quote
Same for weapons, maybe. In my crew, I have 2 sniper rifles, 1 grenade launcher (or rocket launcher) and 4 - 5 bolter rifles (1 electrolaser for stunning aliens). According to the wiki (and for me), I think, there is nothing better than the standard sniper rifle (range and damage) and bolter rifle (range (?), damage and it is fast enough for reaction fire). The laser weapons are too weak (especially against aliens with the second armour). My crew with bolter (and reaction fire) will live without any damage in some situations, with laser weapons maybe one will get killed.

I guess is all about taste, the laser weapons are for long range and twisty maps (like industrials) where you need a lot of precision to fire through all these little holes, I think that after getting the alien needler you can research the coilgun, the sniper rifle replacement, its in the wiki, and you can see it in the multiplayer menu too.
Alien weapons are basically slower and deadlier versions of the human weapons.
The laser rifle low damage late in the game could be fixed with new ammo, i dont like how people 'fixes' it replacing the entire thing in most games.

Quote
4.) I can buy infrared goggles. But I don't know how to use them. I click on that goggle-icon, but nothing happens. How can I use them and for what? (I haven't figured out, what they do.)
These are half working, i read somewhere the will get a overhaul,  to use them just put them in your hand, they work like a weapon, just get close to a wall -> scan(12tu) and click behind it to see through it, its really nice to find aliens in harvesters.


Quote
5.) Will there be some sort of "alien/lifeform radar" for the maps? Because on a base attack-mission (or a mission on a big map) it may take a very long time finding the last alien (and then see a dead crew-member...). Some sort of "lifeform radar" would be nice.

Theres is suggestion about 'psi-humans' that would let you do this, not sure if that got accepted or not.

Quote
6.) None of my crew-members ranged up and they shot many aliens. My best one is, I guess: 52 missions, 53 kills. I oftentimes clicked on this automatic missions, because I don't want to fight every time. So is this my problem (clicking on automatic mission)? When does a soldier rang up and what is the benefit?

No idea, sorry.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2009, 02:37:06 pm by theotherhiveking »

Offline ChemBro

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Re: some questions about the single player campaign (balancing for example)
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2009, 04:40:39 pm »
I wanted to attach a save file, but I guess, it is broken (with today's update).

Code: [Select]
ERROR: CM_AddMapTile: ufocrash/uc_craft_drop_firebird has wrong version number (77 should be 78)
That's the error message, when I try to start the mission. :-/

And I'll try the rest (flamethrower, ir-googles) next time.

Offline Kildor

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Re: some questions about the single player campaign (balancing for example)
« Reply #4 on: November 29, 2009, 04:42:39 pm »
you need to recompile all maps, because there was some changes in map code.

Offline ChemBro

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Re: some questions about the single player campaign (balancing for example)
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2009, 05:08:21 pm »
Can you help me with this? make clean doesn't seem enough and make maps doesn't work (it works, but it does not recompile all maps).

What do I need to do?

Offline geever

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Re: some questions about the single player campaign (balancing for example)
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2009, 05:11:12 pm »
Can you help me with this? make clean doesn't seem enough and make maps doesn't work (it works, but it does not recompile all maps).

What do I need to do?

Code: [Select]
make clean-maps; make maps

-geever

Offline ChemBro

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Re: some questions about the single player campaign (balancing for example)
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2009, 05:25:25 pm »
Thanks, compiling now (which will take a while).  ;D

Offline Kildor

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Re: some questions about the single player campaign (balancing for example)
« Reply #8 on: November 30, 2009, 11:36:54 am »
«What's my point? Or question. My question is: Will there be a "alien cap" for scout/fighter missions? Because facing 8 aliens on that little map is not easy (and I'm playing on easy). Also for me, 8 aliens in one scout/fighter is somehow illogical.»
I`ve looked through sources and found that ufos doesn`t have "maxaliens"  value at all, and value of mapdef is used. I`m going to make a bugreport about it.

Offline ChemBro

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Re: some questions about the single player campaign (balancing for example)
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2009, 10:30:24 am »
So do you need the save game?

Besides that, is someone able to answer question 6? (When does a soldier rank up?)

Also I think I encountered a bug. At the beginning of the mission, no one has reaction fire enabled (I mean the green bar isn't there, which is good in my opionion). But if let my soldiers crouch, reaction fire is enabled for one shot. The problem is: If I move a soldier with a sniper rifle so he has 11 TU or below and then crouch, reaction fire for one shot will be enabled (12 TU). I cannot enable/disable reaction fire, if my soldier has less TU than the reation fire needs, so with the leftover (for example) 8 TU, I cannot look around (for 1 TU) or stand up or move away (because of danger).

Offline Kildor

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Re: some questions about the single player campaign (balancing for example)
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2009, 11:20:18 am »
> So do you need the save game?
No, thanks :-)

> Besides that, is someone able to answer question 6? (When does a soldier rank up?)

At first, soldier should have mind over 50. Look to the medals.ufo in base\ufos (base\0ufos.pk3)

Offline theotherhiveking

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Re: some questions about the single player campaign (balancing for example)
« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2009, 01:36:18 pm »
I send a patch yesterday.

Now you get the first rank with 32 mind and 3 kills.

Offline Kildor

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Re: some questions about the single player campaign (balancing for example)
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2009, 01:38:11 pm »
> What's my point? Or question. My question is: Will there be a "alien cap" for scout/fighter missions? Because facing 8 aliens on that little map is not easy (and I'm playing on easy). Also for me, 8 aliens in one scout/fighter is somehow illogical.
Ok, now (r27392) number of aliens in the mission depends on team of used ufo (max numbers are 3 for scout, 5 for fighter).

> I send a patch yesterday.
> Now you get the first rank with 32 mind and 3 kills.
Your patch was inluded to game in r27376. Thanks for contribution :-)

Offline ChemBro

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Re: some questions about the single player campaign (balancing for example)
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2009, 06:03:29 pm »
Thanks for bug killing.  ;D Now I need some time to try out the balanced rank-system. And the alien-cap works, too.