project-navigation
Personal tools

Author Topic: Thought about base defence missions  (Read 4476 times)

Offline Pirx

  • Cannon Fodder
  • **
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Thought about base defence missions
« on: October 11, 2009, 08:10:43 pm »
Hi!

There are some different opinions about base defence around. I´d like to add my opinion, too.

I think the most important thing is to keep the scenario believable. And this is difficult. Phalanx is supposed to be a professional elite organisation, if their architects would design an underground lair, they would certainly spend a lot of time thinking about handling invasion attempts. In fact, the art of building effective defence structures is ancient, from celtic pile defences over medieval castles to modern nuclear bunkers - they all follow the very same principle: Giving the defender as much advantage in defending as possible by design!

For a nuclear bunker, this usually means its an underground lair, deep inside a mountain. Depending on the depth, they would resist more or less intense nuclear attacks. If you assume there could be invasion attempts, you have to design the entrance part carefully, since this is the weak point of your facility. The good news is, if you are deep inside a mountain, you have a long tunnel which is easy to defend.

Typically such a tunnel has a branching after a few hundred meters. If you go straight ahead, you will find a dead end. This is where missiles are misleaded to, they wouldn't cause any harm, their detonation would blow through the tunnel like through a gigantic cannon, some dead guards, who cares as long as the lair is unaffected?

This pattern might be repeated several times with slightly variations. After the first or second branch-off the dead end wouldn't be just dead, but deadly: there would be an emplacement of some gatlings for example. I don't mean an infantery weapon - lets talk about the GAU-8/A Avenger! Imagine four of them behind a huge block of concrete with small holes to fire through. Well, now imagine the operators inside the bunker recognize an intruder approaching through the tunnel. They press a trigger and the Avengers fire a burst for exactly one second! Result: The intruder experience 280 incoming rounds with around 1 km/sec speed and a weight of 400 gr each. Honestly, I don't want to be member of an intrusion squad in this situation! There is no cover in a tunnel made out of concrete, and you still have to go some hundred meters fo the next branch-off. Even a tank wouldn't withstand such a burst, and nobody prevents the operators from pushing the button for another 5 seconds..

This obviously applies just to facilities which are independent from direct ground access. Of course you cant protect a hangar like this. But in my understanding most UFO:AI base facilities are protected like this. HQ, powerplant, hospital, R&D, workshops etc are placed in such a bunker and hence inaccessible for any intruder. Or the other way round, if an intruder has the power to cope with those defence mechnisms, then its pointless to try hunting him down with infantery weapons.

So, if UFO:AI has missions with intruders in such areas, there should be an explaination how it came to that situation. Teleporters or cloaking devices are possible solutions, though I am aware of the story impact. Or they were brought in hidden inside a container - those bastards!

Looking forward to your opinions/additions,

Pirx







Offline Hertzila

  • Sergeant
  • *****
  • Posts: 469
    • View Profile
Re: Thought about base defence missions
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2009, 12:14:10 am »
Well, the main thing with PHALANX bases is that they are not supposed to hold out a nuclear attack (at least to my knowledge) but to be as hidden as possible while being quick to respond to any alien activity. So the idea should be fast but disguised/camouflaged bases. This is the main reason it would be impractical for them to be more than a few ten meters underground.
I'm not sure how things are handled in dev version (I don't play it) but generally enemies should attack from outside the base and fight their way down to the base and important parts of it. And naturally your job is to stop them. Regarding automated defences, I've not seen any proposals but I think they would be a welcomed addition to the game. Nothing too powerful but something to hinder the enemy progress while you scramble your team there. They would also contribute to the fact that your bases should seem well protected.

Offline criusmac

  • Squad Leader
  • ****
  • Posts: 168
    • View Profile
Re: Thought about base defence missions
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2009, 08:19:38 am »
In the many X-Com games I've played, I also made my bases completely impenetrable with base defenses alone. I didn't even need a single soldier to fire a single shot. Mainly, when a base invasion started, I'd just end my turn until they were all wiped out. I never lost a base this way. The enemies never even got past the first and only set of defensive turrets.

I'm not really sure why aliens are invading the bases anyway.. If they can detect them, why not just bomb the base out of existence? Well, I guess that wouldn't be much fun, but if I were invading an alien world, it's what I'd do.

Offline Pirx

  • Cannon Fodder
  • **
  • Posts: 2
    • View Profile
Re: Thought about base defence missions
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2009, 10:35:11 pm »
You mean, earths defence against the alien threat is easily extinctable with some conventional bunker busters? Thats implausible! At least some strategic key installations like HQ would/should be extremly well protected.




Offline criusmac

  • Squad Leader
  • ****
  • Posts: 168
    • View Profile
Re: Thought about base defence missions
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2009, 10:53:30 pm »
I mean, earth's defense against aliens attacking our bases is extremely efficient. Against aliens attacking undefended towns, not so much.

If a common soldier's weapons can kill an alien, why wouldn't base defenses be able to?

I don't really understand the story of this game in this respect. The aliens easily destroyed earth's attacks against them, with countless soldiers, aircraft, tanks, and whatnot, yet when we begin the game, 1 aircraft with earth weapons can easily shoot down UFOs, and our soldiers, with earth weapons, can easily kill aliens.

Sure, our soldiers are the best, but can such a small group really do so much better than countless thousands of similarly armed soldiers?

Offline Bartleby

  • Squad Leader
  • ****
  • Posts: 102
    • View Profile
Re: Thought about base defence missions
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2009, 11:09:24 pm »
I don't really understand the story of this game in this respect. The aliens easily destroyed earth's attacks against them, with countless soldiers, aircraft, tanks, and whatnot, yet when we begin the game, 1 aircraft with earth weapons can easily shoot down UFOs, and our soldiers, with earth weapons, can easily kill aliens.
1. our soldiers are the best of the best of the best and
2. our team was the first to use a special alloy making weapons much more effective vs aliens ^^.

maybe the alines shouldnt be that overpowered in the intro. maybe the aliens have after the long journey just resources to fight one country or just a small number of simultaneous fights. thats gave our team the chance to prepare.

[i still like the idea of area 51 like in "independence day" >>> there were previous alien scouts that were found and which gave a small number of people the chance to prepare in secret. and when the game starts "our" team is not longer secret on earth. its more hiring active. dont know why they should still hide if they need all resources they could get and also aliens would knew after 1 battle that there are new enemies around.
btw. aliens dont want to bomb all our bases because they dont want to destroy all the territory they want to get. also is our airdefence better than the grounddefence ^^.]
« Last Edit: October 12, 2009, 11:18:17 pm by Bartleby »