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Offline sai`ke

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tunes
« on: August 30, 2009, 04:26:20 pm »
Okay, I'm going to use this thread to unload some of my audio ramblings. I'll put them with a very short description.

If you want to use them, feel free. If you can't find any use for them in the project, that's fine too. All samples I used are either purchased or made from scratch synth-wise and cleared from any license issues. Tunes are licensed as Attribution-Noncommercial-No Derivative Works 3.0

Here's the first one, a short one that could be used to build up to something.
http://www.sendspace.com/file/a9haga

This tune was originally made for a game I was working on myself, but in the end I decided it was overdramatic for its purpose. It was meant as an intro to the main menu. It would build up, followed up by an ambient loop for the menu itself.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2009, 04:30:49 pm by sai`ke »

Offline Mattn

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Re: tunes
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2009, 04:53:34 pm »
thanks - i've commited this to our data_source repository. our responsible persons will have a look now.

Offline Destructavator

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Re: tunes
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2009, 07:26:13 pm »
The license you just chose might be an issue - I've been through this myself, the "Non-Commercial" part might not be compatible with the rest of the game, and the "No-Derivative" part could also be a problem, no offense.

Glad you've come back to offer new music though!  (Sorry I don't have time to listen to it right now, I'll try to give feedback later.)

Offline sai`ke

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Re: tunes
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2009, 07:36:38 pm »
Not offended at all. I understand that licensing is an important issue when it comes to larger projects such as this one.

Well, as far as I know, such licenses only apply in general. If I as the copyright holder give explicit permission to this project to use it in a 'commercial' sense that should be fine right? Just out of curiosity, how is this project (in its current state) commercial?

No derivative works is sort of a non-negotiable I'm afraid. Why is this a problem? The reason for this is that the license I own for my kit demands this. What they explicitly state is that only audio where I am a first author of the piece (read, the only one who used the library) are legal. Anybody remixing this material would be in violation of the sample library license unless it would be a completely collaborative effort, where I'd be the only one working with the samples in question. Given that I have the time to do so, I'd be willing to work with people on this though.

Oh and glad to oblige. Hopefully, I can send some more works your way.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2009, 07:38:36 pm by sai`ke »

Offline Destructavator

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Re: tunes
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2009, 07:45:34 pm »
I'm not an expert in the legal stuff, but GPL works can potentially be sold commercially - the source code would have to still be included, and although it isn't intended for that sort of thing, people have indeed sold for profit discs with GPL works without violation of the license.

As far as modified works, I don't know for sure about that part, I think the GPL code is supposed to be freely open so anyone can alter it and make their own version and pass it around, although I don't know exactly how that would or wouldn't work with media content included.  That part might or might not work, I'm not sure on that point.

Sorry, I'm not trying to be difficult, but if there is an incompatible license it could still cause issues releasing it with the game.

Edit:  Of course there is also more than one GPL license, they have different intentions, there's also other related licenses such as LGPL, etc...

Part of the problem is that all the licenses out there weren't really designed to all be compatible with each other, and also were not meant for the same type of material.  (GPL is really meant more for programming code/computer software, CC licenses are more geared for music, media, creative works etc.)  They have restrictions in different areas, and sometimes the only way to put them together is to release all components in the most liberal versions possible to avoid conflicts.  It's complex and isn't always easy.
« Last Edit: August 30, 2009, 07:52:44 pm by Destructavator »

Offline sai`ke

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Re: tunes
« Reply #5 on: August 30, 2009, 09:25:43 pm »
Yes I understand your concern. I don't know much about licensing of projects like these. I always thought the GPL license only pertained to the actual source code.

Offline Destructavator

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Re: tunes
« Reply #6 on: August 30, 2009, 11:49:40 pm »
Yeah, it can become quite a mess, combining works of differing licenses.

I've had conversations with lawyers about the subject, as well as read articles and publications written by lawyers on copyright and intellectual property rights - it certainly can get monstrously complicated - even for one nation alone, and this project is distributed internationally, which throws a giant monkey wrench into things even more.  Heck, some nations still don't recognize or accept CC licenses at all and let such works default to public domain within their borders (although people are working to slowly change this).

Regarding tunes you may contribute, I think the worse case if it isn't compatible would be it would end up in a separate download from the main game, released under its own terms.  This actually happened with some of the music a long time ago in an older release.

Or, you could try the "I'll just pretend, put the music in anyways, cross my fingers and hope, and if no one sues me than oh well..." type of approach.  (Although risky, this actually works a fair amount of the time, and if someone catches you you can just pretend you misunderstood and thought you weren't doing anything wrong.  Most people, according to studies, actually misunderstand this subject anyways.)    ;D

Whatever you do, I'm sure there's some way of making it work - There usually is.

Offline sai`ke

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Re: tunes
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2009, 06:33:42 pm »
Yeah, I understand. To be honest, I don't think it would be much of a problem. I mean, I think they mean actual remixing, not just editing for normalisation/length purposes.

Okay, just some more ideas:
http://www.sendspace.com/file/jukway

Note that the above preview is not meant as a coherent tune. But I wonder, are there any plans for 'interactive' music within the ufo-ai project. I think Splinter Cell also did this. In that game it really helped create the mood and build up the tension. In the former tune, the break and more aggressive synthline could come in once enemies get closer.

Offline Destructavator

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Re: tunes
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2009, 09:11:32 pm »
...But I wonder, are there any plans for 'interactive' music within the ufo-ai project. I think Splinter Cell also did this. In that game it really helped create the mood and build up the tension. In the former tune, the break and more aggressive synthline could come in once enemies get closer.

I've seen plenty of games do this, and I've wanted such a feature for the soundtrack myself, but I was told by one of the coders a long time ago (when I personally brought it up) that coding such a thing would be difficult for how the game is (coded) already, and adding such functionality would not be a priority.   :(

At some point I might actually offer to code something for this myself, (I'm still learning C/C++, have also written my own VST plug-ins before), but I already have quite a bit on my plate at the moment that if I took on a new, additional project it probably wouldn't get done any time soon.

What I have in mind for coding would be to have soundtracks broken into phrases (sections, groups) of measures, and when one phrase finishes playing the next one that starts in the tune would come from an internal list, the choice influenced by what's happening in the game at the moment, all of it done with (hopefully) smooth transitions.  I know the SDL mixer is used for the audio, I'd imagine it would be capable of such a thing but I'd have to look at the API and docs again, as well as how the current game code uses it.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2009, 09:18:04 pm by Destructavator »