project-navigation
Personal tools

Author Topic: Making combat a little less tedious with all the button pushing  (Read 6879 times)

Offline Gunner

  • Rookie
  • ***
  • Posts: 96
    • View Profile
Re: Making combat a little less tedious with all the button pushing
« Reply #15 on: August 22, 2009, 11:02:50 pm »
i didn't say you were forcing i said that 'you' shouldn't force people to use multiple input devices the you being people that write software

it was in reference to
these games have to be deigned so that everything can be done via the prime controller, so you can't have commands that you issue with the mouse that need a keyboard press to confirm. so if you give a move order with the mouse then the confirmation of the move order must also be done by the mouse so using the mouse to set a move order and then having to press a keyboard key to make it move is a a definate no no unless you also have a mouse command that can do the same thing.

saying that it could be done as a keyboard shortcuts but it couldn't be build into the move command as it would require the user to use 2 input devices violating one of the principle of GUI design

Whatever

  • Guest
Re: Making combat a little less tedious with all the button pushing
« Reply #16 on: August 22, 2009, 11:14:51 pm »
I don't give a damn about the "principles of GUI design." This is a video game, not a "GUI". Cite some principles of game design. I can assure you eliminate/reduce tedious gameplay is high on the list and maintaining the "principles of GUI design" are nowhere to be found on it.

Offline Gunner

  • Rookie
  • ***
  • Posts: 96
    • View Profile
Re: Making combat a little less tedious with all the button pushing
« Reply #17 on: August 22, 2009, 11:28:02 pm »
I don't give a damn about the "principles of GUI design." This is a video game, not a "GUI". Cite some principles of game design. I can assure you eliminate/reduce tedious gameplay is high on the list and maintaining the "principles of GUI design" are nowhere to be found on it.

a GUI is a Graphical User Interface, it covers all programs that interact with a user via graphics. so anything that uses a point and click system like say this, X com, command and conquer and any game that is not played directly through a keyboard interface like say FPS's or racing games.

in fact FPS are the prime example of when GUI design principles fail as if you had to move and shoot with the mouse they would be unplayable, so they are primary Keyboard based with optional mouse controls that are superior to the Keyboard options. but even though there are superior mouse control they still have the keyboard commands.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2009, 11:34:29 pm by Gunner »

Whatever

  • Guest
Re: Making combat a little less tedious with all the button pushing
« Reply #18 on: August 22, 2009, 11:39:30 pm »
Wow, thanks for explaining what a GUI is. I had no idea. Look, do you actually have a point? You have yet to make one in all your posts in this thread, other than some bogus claim about how macro keys, which are found in many video games, somehow violate imaginary "principles of GUI design".

Offline Gunner

  • Rookie
  • ***
  • Posts: 96
    • View Profile
Re: Making combat a little less tedious with all the button pushing
« Reply #19 on: August 22, 2009, 11:43:29 pm »
Wow, thanks for explaining what a GUI is. I had no idea. Look, do you actually have a point? You have yet to make one in all your posts in this thread, other than some bogus claim about how macro keys, which are found in many video games, somehow violate imaginary "principles of GUI design".
the point is the same as it has aways been, you can't have a mouse command that requires a keyboard press to confirm it. there has to be a way of doing it with the mouse. and changing the game so that you tell a unit where to move with the mouse and then having to press a key to say how to move is a bad idea

Whatever

  • Guest
Re: Making combat a little less tedious with all the button pushing
« Reply #20 on: August 22, 2009, 11:56:39 pm »
the point is the same as it has aways been, you can't have a mouse command that requires a keyboard press to confirm it. there has to be a way of doing it with the mouse. and changing the game so that you tell a unit where to move with the mouse and then having to press a key to say how to move is a bad idea

There is a way to do it with the freakin mouse. It just takes way more clicks, and THAT'S THE PROBLEM.

Do I need to freaking explain AGAIN?

Goal: move my soldier who is currently in single reaction fire mode to the maximum move distance he can.

Currently I have two ways of doing this. I can mouse over the reaction fire button, click that twice, then left click the place I want to walk to. Alternatively, I can do essentially the same thing but use the keyboard to cycle through the reaction fire modes.

My idea is to have a key that combines switching to a certain type of reaction fire along with moving you to a designated spot.

You keep saying it's a bad idea to decrease needless button clicking. I guess you have never played any RTS, TBS games or even MMORPGs, as they all frequently make use of macro keys to simplify commonly used commands.

You just keep saying it's a "bad idea", but you have seem to have no idea why it's a bad idea, and it's getting quite tiresome. Make a point or stop posting in this thread.

Offline Gunner

  • Rookie
  • ***
  • Posts: 96
    • View Profile
Re: Making combat a little less tedious with all the button pushing
« Reply #21 on: August 23, 2009, 12:01:53 am »
You just keep saying it's a "bad idea", but you have seem to have no idea why it's a bad idea, and it's getting quite tiresome. Make a point or stop posting in this thread.

i made a point but just as we had trouble seeing yours because of poor communication you seem to be having the same trouble with mine.

Whatever

  • Guest
Re: Making combat a little less tedious with all the button pushing
« Reply #22 on: August 23, 2009, 12:15:18 am »
i made a point but just as we had trouble seeing yours because of poor communication you seem to be having the same trouble with mine.

Your only supposed point that I've seen is, quite frankly, completely bogus. You might as well have argued that "santa claus doesn't like macro keys". It's an equally valid argument as to it violating some imaginary principles of GUI design.

Offline Gunner

  • Rookie
  • ***
  • Posts: 96
    • View Profile
Re: Making combat a little less tedious with all the button pushing
« Reply #23 on: August 23, 2009, 12:22:20 am »
Your only supposed point that I've seen is, quite frankly, completely bogus. You might as well have argued that "santa claus doesn't like macro keys". It's an equally valid argument as to it violating some imaginary principles of GUI design.

perhaps you would like to read up on them http://www.classicsys.com/css06/cfm/article.cfm?articleid=20

particularly
Quote from: James Hobart
you will always find a smaller set of users who are not touch typists and hence embrace the mouse as a point-and-click nirvana. The result is that you need to provide complete and equal keyboard and mouse support for all menu and window operations.

Whatever

  • Guest
Re: Making combat a little less tedious with all the button pushing
« Reply #24 on: August 23, 2009, 12:40:26 am »
perhaps you would like to read up on them http://www.classicsys.com/css06/cfm/article.cfm?articleid=20

particularly

I like you omit the two paragraphs above that one, I'm sure that's not by accident. Usually when you are asked to support your argument, you don't offer a to completely debunk your own argument:

Keyboards are a common fixture on users' desktops and provide an efficient means to enter text and data. With the introduction of GUI applications, we often assume users will embrace a mouse as the primary interactive device. Using a mouse can become time-consuming and inefficient for the touch typist or frequent users of an application.

Keyboard accelerators can provide an efficient way for users to access specific menu items or controls in a window. The accelerators used should be easy to access and limited to one or two keys (such as F3 or Ctrl-P). Keyboards have limitations in the GUI world, such as when trying to implement direct-manipulation tasks like drag and drop, pointing, and re-sizing.

Offline Destructavator

  • Combination Multiple Specialty Developer
  • Administrator
  • PHALANX Commander
  • *****
  • Posts: 1908
  • Creater of Scorchcrafter, knows the zarakites...
    • View Profile
Re: Making combat a little less tedious with all the button pushing
« Reply #25 on: August 23, 2009, 01:51:24 am »
Whoa...

Let's calm down a bit here and try to act more civil, shall we?  This whole thread has quickly gotten quite silly with what's going back and forth, not to mention a bit vague about what is being argued over.  First there is some initial disagreement over something actually related to the game, and it eventually turns into a back-and-forth nitpicking debate that leads to arguing about how each side is conducting the argument, continually snowballing into something more and more vague while having less and less to do with UFO: AI.

This thread really is getting childish - I don't know whether to laugh at how absurd it is getting or outright be pissed and ask you two to "take it outside."

This isn't very constructive...

Edit:  I'll say this:  If either of you want to suggest something to improve the game, that's fine, but please don't go into attacking each other in such a manner.  Do either of you really expect to "win" if you resort to such measures?
« Last Edit: August 23, 2009, 01:54:55 am by Destructavator »

Offline Gunner

  • Rookie
  • ***
  • Posts: 96
    • View Profile
Re: Making combat a little less tedious with all the button pushing
« Reply #26 on: August 23, 2009, 01:54:00 am »
I like you omit the two paragraphs above that one, I'm sure that's not by accident. Usually when you are asked to support your argument, you don't offer a to completely debunk your own argument:
applicable to that, quoting more would have been superfluous
there was no need to include them as the need for keyboard short cuts isn't in question, what i said is that keyboard short cuts have to be in support of GUI commands and can't replace them, and what i quoted is what is

Offline Gunner

  • Rookie
  • ***
  • Posts: 96
    • View Profile
Re: Making combat a little less tedious with all the button pushing
« Reply #27 on: August 23, 2009, 01:58:01 am »
Whoa...

Let's calm down a bit here and try to act more civil, shall we?  This whole thread has quickly gotten quite silly with what's going back and forth, not to mention a bit vague about what is being argued over.  First there is some initial disagreement over something actually related to the game, and it eventually turns into a back-and-forth nitpicking debate that leads to arguing about how each side is conducting the argument, continually snowballing into something more and more vague while having less and less to do with UFO: AI.

This thread really is getting childish - I don't know whether to laugh at how absurd it is getting or outright be pissed and ask you two to "take it outside."

This isn't very constructive...
i have been trying to keep it civil,unfortunately failior to get a point accross which seems simple to you but the other party is not grasping is quite frustratating.

however you are completely correct there is no longer even a pretence of attempting to understand the oposing point of view by either amd while that is the case it is impossible to acheive anything constructive, especially as this entire thing is down to miss communication and not a disagreement on any point
« Last Edit: August 23, 2009, 02:15:47 am by Gunner »

Offline Hertzila

  • Sergeant
  • *****
  • Posts: 469
    • View Profile
Re: Making combat a little less tedious with all the button pushing
« Reply #28 on: August 23, 2009, 01:59:37 am »
Whatever, just use macros. Get AutoHotkey or AutoIT, do yourself a good macro, bind it and that's that. Asking for in-game macro engine might not yeld anything as most of the programmers are squashing bugs and getting new planned features up and running (you can of course make one yourself).

Whatever

  • Guest
Re: Making combat a little less tedious with all the button pushing
« Reply #29 on: August 23, 2009, 03:31:21 am »

Whatever, just use macros. Get AutoHotkey or AutoIT, do yourself a good macro, bind it and that's that. Asking for in-game macro engine might not yeld anything as most of the programmers are squashing bugs and getting new planned features up and running (you can of course make one yourself).

You can't. Well, not very well anyway. You'd have to have a macro listed for every reaction fire starting fire and ending reaction fire. Think about it. Starting from a single reaction fire to a no reaction fire would take two clicks, while going from multiple reaction fire to zero would only take one click. Further complicating it would be the fact that guns with only two modes of reaction fire would require a different set of macro keys, too. Further yet, as far as I can see, you still can't even initiate a "move" command with the keyboard. So all I could do is use one button to switch to a certain reaction fire and I'd have to use a dozen(or whatever) keyboard keys to do that and it would still only do half the job of my suggestion. Not exactly efficient.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2009, 03:33:01 am by Whatever »