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Author Topic: Making combat a little less tedious with all the button pushing  (Read 6883 times)

Whatever

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I frequently get annoyed with the constant need to switch between the several modes of reaction fire. Might it not be easier to, instead of having a single button that cycles through the choices, that you simply select where you want to move, you can do it with some kind of preset button for a certain mode of fire.

So basically let's say your guy with a machine gun is trying to get under cover inside a building quickly and he is currently in single fire reaction mode. Instead of having to go take him off single button auto fire, you would mouse over the place you want to him walk and click a certain button and that certain button instantly shifts you to that other mode of fire and sends you to wherever you moused over. Then next turn you want to position yourself defensively facing the door with some space with multiple shot reaction fire to kill any alien who may run in after you. You mouse over the selected spot and click with a different pre-set button for multiple reaction fire mode in this case.

Normally I'd have to click the reaction fire twice to get to no reaction fire, then I'd have to click the location I want to walk to. Then I'd have to click the reaction fire twice again and then click to the location inside the building I want to make my  defensive position at. 300% more clicking.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2009, 02:07:26 am by Whatever »

Offline Sheena-Tiger

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Re: Making combat a little less tedious with all the button pushing
« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2009, 02:11:59 am »
*scratches head*

as much as i get is, you complain about the reservation of reaction-fire?
your guy can not walk unless you deactivate the reaction-fire-mode, because the mode forbids to spend a certain ammount of TU's so the soldier can actually use the reaction-fire

sadly, in the stable version the reaction-fire is right now gained from the next turn, making moving around in turns after used reaction fire nearly impossible without deactivating (the changelog for the newest dev-version points at a change there, so it works like intended)

Whatever

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Re: Making combat a little less tedious with all the button pushing
« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2009, 02:23:34 am »
No. What I'm talking about has nothing to do with the stable versus dev versions of the game currently.

It's a suggestion to have a single button on the keyboard that will both shift you into a certain mode of reaction fire AND move you the selected destination you are moused over.

Offline gerald

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Re: Making combat a little less tedious with all the button pushing
« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2009, 02:31:19 am »
from what i understand here u talkl bout thing wchich automatically switch reaction fire so ur soldier get enough TU to walk to place u click,sound good but what if u accidently click in place where that system will switch off reaction fire to give soldier enough TU ?not so safe thing i prefer to reserve certain amount manually

Whatever

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Re: Making combat a little less tedious with all the button pushing
« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2009, 02:40:06 am »
from what i understand here u talkl bout thing wchich automatically switch reaction fire so ur soldier get enough TU to walk to place u click,sound good but what if u accidently click in place where that system will switch off reaction fire to give soldier enough TU ?not so safe thing i prefer to reserve certain amount manually

It wouldn't do that. The computer isn't shifting you out of any type of firing mode, onl thr player does. It would stop you when you ran out of TUs to do your reaction fire just like it normally does. The button would switch your reaction fire and then move you as far as you can go towards the selected square, like it already does.

Offline Sheena-Tiger

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Re: Making combat a little less tedious with all the button pushing
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2009, 03:57:17 am »
well, in all my plays, i never had the ammount to turn back on my reaction-fire if i moved my soldier farther then i could without deactivating the mode...

so, personally... i see no sense in this request since the outcome would be, the soldier can not reactionfire anymore in that turn if he moved to far

what you suggest is a bit weird, you know? nobody needs to deactivate reaction-fire to move the soldiers around @_@ but you say you do that allways it seems, just to reactivate it again *is confused*

Whatever

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Re: Making combat a little less tedious with all the button pushing
« Reply #6 on: August 21, 2009, 04:15:58 am »
well, in all my plays, i never had the ammount to turn back on my reaction-fire if i moved my soldier farther then i could without deactivating the mode...

so, personally... i see no sense in this request since the outcome would be, the soldier can not reactionfire anymore in that turn if he moved to far

what you suggest is a bit weird, you know? nobody needs to deactivate reaction-fire to move the soldiers around @_@ but you say you do that allways it seems, just to reactivate it again *is confused*

You do seem confused and you aren't making much sense. I've twice now explained what I'm talking about. There is no way to make it any clearer that I can see.

And as a side note, you seem to be talking mostly about 2.2.1, which this suggested feature would be less userful for because of the cost associated with turning reaction fire on. Still would be useful, but notn nearly as much as in 2.3 + versions.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2009, 04:52:40 am by Whatever »

Offline Gunner

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Re: Making combat a little less tedious with all the button pushing
« Reply #7 on: August 21, 2009, 10:15:38 am »
from what i can gather he's asking that when you give a move order you get 3 move orders appear on screen, one with no reaction, one with some reaction and one with full reaction. then you select the movement you want from these.

or might be that he's suggesting you use left click to move with no reaction fire and right click move with reaction fire.
it does seem to be a little poorly worded
« Last Edit: August 21, 2009, 10:17:25 am by Gunner »

Whatever

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Re: Making combat a little less tedious with all the button pushing
« Reply #8 on: August 21, 2009, 12:24:47 pm »
from what i can gather he's asking that when you give a move order you get 3 move orders appear on screen, one with no reaction, one with some reaction and one with full reaction. then you select the movement you want from these.

or might be that he's suggesting you use left click to move with no reaction fire and right click move with reaction fire.
it does seem to be a little poorly worded

First paragraph sounds sort of right, except that it wouldn't appear "on screen", every mode of reaction fire will have its own key on the keyboard. So, say "c" button is "single fire" reaction mode. All you would need to do is press C button and your character will automatically switch to that type of reaction fire and move to the location your cursor was located.

This really isn't brain surgery...

Offline Gunner

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Re: Making combat a little less tedious with all the button pushing
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2009, 12:50:40 pm »
so what you are asking for is that each reaction mode has a keyboard short cut?

This really isn't brain surgery...

no the problem is that your wording is a little ambiguous, so as you know what you mean you read it that way.

where as we read it and we don't know which way you meant it. hence the attempt to clarify

these games have to be deigned so that everything can be done via the prime controller, so you can't have commands that you issue with the mouse that need a keyboard press to confirm. so if you give a move order with the mouse then the confirmation of the move order must also be done by the mouse so using the mouse to set a move order and then having to press a keyboard key to make it move is a a definate no no unless you also have a mouse command that can do the same thing.

however as there is a button on screen that you can use the mouse to set the reaction fire then having a keyboard short cut to set the mode is fine and i beleive already in there, there should also be no issue with changing that shortcut from toggle to a direct link however  from a programming point of view it is always best if your keyboard shortcut are a direct match to the control for the mouse.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2009, 12:59:34 pm by Gunner »

Whatever

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Re: Making combat a little less tedious with all the button pushing
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2009, 09:00:23 pm »
There is no crouch button on my mouse, there is no "end turn" buttton on my mouse, there is no go to player X on my mouse, etc. Why does the mouse have to have parity with the keyboard suddenly when such parity never existed before? In short, I don't see your point.

Offline Gunner

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Re: Making combat a little less tedious with all the button pushing
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2009, 09:20:08 pm »
There is no crouch button on my mouse, there is no "end turn" buttton on my mouse, there is no go to player X on my mouse, etc. Why does the mouse have to have parity with the keyboard suddenly when such parity never existed before? In short, I don't see your point.
no but there is a crouch button on the screen that you can use the mouse to press, and same with the end turn and go to player.
the from an ease of use perspective the mouse is better than the keyboard which is why we use GUI's rather than the command prompt operating systems nowadays. touch screen is better again but is still in it's infancy so not in wide use.

with a keyboard you have limited number of commands and no way of displaying that function to the user bar pre printing.
with a screen you have as many option as you can fit places to click and can move change and basically do whatever you want with one.

i freely admit that for someone that is familiar with them then the keyboard is quicker that is why we still have keyboards

Whatever

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Re: Making combat a little less tedious with all the button pushing
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2009, 01:22:26 am »
no but there is a crouch button on the screen that you can use the mouse to press, and same with the end turn and go to player.
the from an ease of use perspective the mouse is better than the keyboard which is why we use GUI's rather than the command prompt operating systems nowadays. touch screen is better again but is still in it's infancy so not in wide use.

Yea, there is a crouch button, but it's not on the mouse. You missed the point. Alright TYPING. You cannot TYPE A SENTENCE with the mouse. How about that one, huh? The whole point is, you claim that the keyboard doing something the mouse can't do is a "no no", even though the mouse could do the exact same thing if the mouse user clicked on a couple of icons in the GUI. You have made zero compelling argument for why this is a "no no" or any argument at all for that matter.

Offline Gunner

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Re: Making combat a little less tedious with all the button pushing
« Reply #13 on: August 22, 2009, 03:15:58 pm »
you can type with the mouse, you put a keyboard on screen and use that to click on each letter, it is the same technology that lets Quadriplegics use computers, if you know how to touch type then the speed is no where close to equal but you can do it

in fact that's software is now standard in windows and most other operating systems.

and i didn't say that it was wrong for the keyboard to do it i said that it was wrong to force the user to use 2 different input devices.if they want to they can but you can't force them to
« Last Edit: August 22, 2009, 05:07:39 pm by Gunner »

Whatever

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Re: Making combat a little less tedious with all the button pushing
« Reply #14 on: August 22, 2009, 10:52:09 pm »
Where did you get the idea I was forcing people to do anything??? I suggested adding something, not taking it away.

My suggestion would not change the current keyboard/mouse/user dynamic, it would only reduce the overall clicking a player has to do in missions if they choose to use these new keys on the keyboard. They are just like a pre-programmed macro key.

I tested it a couple times already, and it is about 200% more "click" efficient but it highly depends on the soldier type. The more versatile the weapon, the more click saving. People with assault rifle/bolter rifle heavy teams could save up to 300%.
« Last Edit: August 22, 2009, 10:54:36 pm by Whatever »