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Author Topic: Human Head Model Proves A Headache...  (Read 16165 times)

Offline Destructavator

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Human Head Model Proves A Headache...
« on: July 10, 2009, 10:46:11 am »
Hmmm...

Well, it seems I can't model a human head very well...

I was trying to make some new heads for the new soldier models I created, it didn't come out too great.

I first created the texture on the high-poly version of an imported head from MakeHuman, took snapshots (the first two pictures below), then attempted to plaster the two pictures onto a low-poly head, shown in the last pic below, and as you can see it looks a bit disfigured.

Something tells me there's a better way of doing this in Blender that would give better results.

Offline Destructavator

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Re: Human Head Model Proves A Headache...
« Reply #1 on: July 10, 2009, 11:10:01 am »
With a few shape adjustments, this one might look a little less revolting...

odie

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Re: Human Head Model Proves A Headache...
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2009, 11:19:22 am »
Destructavator,

Yupz, 2nd one indeed looks nicer.

Have u experimented with playing with the shape of the chin??

Some of the folks have sharper chin (and maybe even looked like a arching banana of sorta) whilst some have a squarer chin. Maintaining the 'tallness' of the face looks good. Try a few chins' variations? :D

Once u got those going, modifying the eyes (wider, smaller, colors) will be the first notifications (as the old chinese saying goes - the eyes defines the window to the soul). Many RPGs online also worked on giving different eyes which almost changes how the character 'looks like' alot.

Then working on the lips (thickness, arching upwards / downwards - giving a serious or sad or emotionless look).

Lastly, the eyebrows also plays quite a part (3 varieties? Thickness - Thick, med, thin almost 1 liner).

:D

Oh, in case where these were inspired....
http://www.worldthinktank.net/pdfs/FacialRecognitionCountermeasures.pdf
(Along with many of the links within)
« Last Edit: July 10, 2009, 11:24:43 am by odie »

Offline Mattn

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Re: Human Head Model Proves A Headache...
« Reply #3 on: July 10, 2009, 11:59:37 am »
nice - looks a lot better already.

Offline Destructavator

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Re: Human Head Model - A-Ha!
« Reply #4 on: July 10, 2009, 07:53:22 pm »
OK, I finally figured it out, and got a really good generic head in Blender, with a high-detail texture on all sides mapped onto a low-poly mesh.  This model has a vertex count of only 109, and edge count of only exactly 300 (not intentional, just a coincidence).

Adding scalp hair and varying the features should be rather easy - at this point, now that I know how to do it, it should be easy to make lots of different heads now.

I'm going to separate this .blend file from the soldier body models, and upload it soon, just as a backup.

odie

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Re: Human Head Model - A-Ha!
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2009, 11:08:40 pm »
OK, I finally figured it out, and got a really good generic head in Blender, with a high-detail texture on all sides mapped onto a low-poly mesh.  This model has a vertex count of only 109, and edge count of only exactly 300 (not intentional, just a coincidence).

Adding scalp hair and varying the features should be rather easy - at this point, now that I know how to do it, it should be easy to make lots of different heads now.

I'm going to separate this .blend file from the soldier body models, and upload it soon, just as a backup.

Ah, nice work on the cheeks area. :D Looks nicer now indeed! Well done!

I look forward to see some stout guys and slim curvy gals. lol. :D

Offline Destructavator

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Re: Human Head Model Proves A Headache...
« Reply #6 on: July 18, 2009, 02:02:08 am »
Ha!  Finally got the scalp hair working - sort of.  All I need now is to shape the hair some more and play with the color controls to fix the fubar colors, unless of course we want to say that our soldiers use Manic Panic hair dye (or something equally ridiculous that I wouldn't personally suggest)...   :P

Offline Zukn

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Re: Human Head Model Proves A Headache...
« Reply #7 on: July 18, 2009, 02:44:51 am »
 Nice work Destuctavator! You're making great progress in your work here. I'm not an official here but I love what you've shown so far and hope it gets used!

Ildamos

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Re: Human Head Model Proves A Headache...
« Reply #8 on: July 18, 2009, 04:44:58 am »
Just my two cents but the lips are a bit too wide. Also can you make them more fierce looking? They look too mannequin-like at the moment. Or is this a software limitation? Otherwise, the general look is ok.

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Re: Human Head Model Proves A Headache...
« Reply #9 on: July 18, 2009, 05:07:27 am »
Just my two cents but the lips are a bit too wide. Also can you make them more fierce looking? They look too mannequin-like at the moment. Or is this a software limitation? Otherwise, the general look is ok.

I actually tried to alter the lips myself several times, its really difficult to change them in a way that doesn't mess up the rest of the face.  If I alter one feature, it seems to throw others out of proportion very quickly - but I'll try again at some point.

Nice work Destuctavator! You're making great progress in your work here. I'm not an official here but I love what you've shown so far and hope it gets used!

Thanks!



I've figured out the hair, gotten the scalp almost about right, pictures attached.

These are orthographic views, when the pictures are plastered onto the low-poly head and put in the game the curves of the haircut and such should look better.  Also, the crap under the head will of course be omitted in the final head - they are just left-overs from the original head mesh imported from MakeHuman.
« Last Edit: July 18, 2009, 05:10:32 am by Destructavator »

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Re: Human Head Model Proves A Headache...
« Reply #10 on: July 18, 2009, 06:47:13 pm »
Well, I managed to get the eyebrows and lashes to look less fake, different technique, but I'm not too confident yet in the way it looks on the low-poly version - I don't think the low poly copy (second screenshot) came out as good as it could have.

I did some research on different ways of mapping high-detail textures onto low-poly objects, I think I might try a different method of doing it later, but for now I need a break!

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Re: Human Head Model Proves A Headache...
« Reply #11 on: July 19, 2009, 01:27:17 am »
Figured it out - at least partially - I accidentally left out some lighting that resulted in un-even lighting in different areas, which made the low-poly copy's texture look so awful.

I fixed that, figured out some more hair styles, made some other fixes too - Yes, I know on the side views the eyelashes and eyebrows look like they stick out a bit, but the final product won't have that.

Offline PhilRoi

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Re: Human Head Model Proves A Headache...
« Reply #12 on: July 19, 2009, 12:08:36 pm »
lol, the low poly looks good actually!   I like it better then the high poly version.

the problem is your running into what psychologists and artists call the "the uncanny valley".  The human brain has developed very sensitive facial feature recognition centers.  You hit a point where as things get more detailed your brain stops noticing what is right about the face and starts focusing more on what is wrong...   making it more detailed can make it worse, sometimes simpler is better!   A simple face our brains fill in the gaps and fools itself into thinking its a a friendly/good face.  the more realistic it gets the less room for your brain to fill in the blanks and it ends up tripping over the wrongness more.   

sometimes suggestive is better then representational!  The smaller faces for the low poly version lose detail and move out of "the uncanny valley".


cheers!

Offline Destructavator

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Re: Human Head Model Proves A Headache...
« Reply #13 on: July 19, 2009, 02:12:37 pm »
lol, the low poly looks good actually!   I like it better then the high poly version.

the problem is your running into what psychologists and artists call the "the uncanny valley".  The human brain has developed very sensitive facial feature recognition centers.  You hit a point where as things get more detailed your brain stops noticing what is right about the face and starts focusing more on what is wrong...   making it more detailed can make it worse, sometimes simpler is better!   A simple face our brains fill in the gaps and fools itself into thinking its a a friendly/good face.  the more realistic it gets the less room for your brain to fill in the blanks and it ends up tripping over the wrongness more.   

sometimes suggestive is better then representational!  The smaller faces for the low poly version lose detail and move out of "the uncanny valley".


cheers!

Thanks!  I'm glad you told me about that - it would sure explain some things I've noticed when looking at the model in Blender from various angles and distances.  I'll keep this in mind as I work on the soldier heads.

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Ta-Da! (Human Head Just About Done!)
« Reply #14 on: July 19, 2009, 09:16:49 pm »
Did It!

- Finally got the texture put on a working low-poly copy without any serious screw-ups!

In the screenshots the low-poly version is on the left, the high-poly (which can be used for cinematics and such) is on the right.

I forget how many polys are in the lower version, I think its around ~300 or so, the high-detail one has upwards of ~1600 or something.