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Author Topic: Question: Why no bleeding  (Read 6511 times)

dast

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Question: Why no bleeding
« on: January 16, 2009, 11:04:40 am »
Hi there,

i have searched the wiki/forum quite some time and one thing i am wondering about is:

Why was bleeding in the damage system omited ?

Some thoughts:

- the original XCOM's had it
- it create some extra tension to save your men in the tactical missions
- it offers a new activity path beside pure combat functions

optionaly it could add to an increased usage of the medikit (could even be the only function a first aid kit supports).

Already implemented are stun and overall hp damages, shouldn't be to hard to add bleeding to this.
Seems more to be some work on the GUI ... I just took a look at the g_combat.c file!

Arguments for more realism is in my opinion not that important (after all it's a game) but important seems to me, that it could bring more fun in the game.

Depending on the design it could even be introduced in the game in a lightweigt manner that for e.g. every 10 points of damage 1 point bleeding is added ...

So i am curious is this theme a:

- no go, will never come into the main branch (could somebody show me a link to the why, please)
- up to now not discussed to the end
- good idea needs only someone to flesh it out and implement a prototype ?

Thanx for any answers,

oh and this is my first post :-) Please be patient ...

Standard disclaimer: I'm a not native english speaker ... wrong grammatics and spelling may occur more often then usual !

Ciao Stefan

Offline BTAxis

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Re: Question: Why no bleeding
« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2009, 02:39:03 pm »
Nobody made it yet. It will be made eventually. As always, if you want it sooner than later, make it.

Offline Josh

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Re: Question: Why no bleeding
« Reply #2 on: March 22, 2009, 01:37:00 pm »
Along these lines, why no gore? From the descriptions of alien weapons in the wiki, I half expected grotesquely mutilated corpses strewn about the battle field. Why don't the aliens explode like blood sausages? Or melt into piles of goo? Is there no creativity in the death department any more?

Offline Chriswriter90

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Re: Question: Why no bleeding
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2009, 07:37:08 pm »
Along these lines, why no gore? From the descriptions of alien weapons in the wiki, I half expected grotesquely mutilated corpses strewn about the battle field. Why don't the aliens explode like blood sausages? Or melt into piles of goo? Is there no creativity in the death department any more?

Refer to BTAxis's post.

Offline Winter

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Re: Question: Why no bleeding
« Reply #4 on: March 22, 2009, 08:45:59 pm »
Refer to BTAxis's post.

I think he was being sarcastic.

Regards,
Winter

Offline Destructavator

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Re: Question: Why no bleeding
« Reply #5 on: March 22, 2009, 08:51:13 pm »
Once I finally get some new models done, with vedrit's help to pose/animate them I could probably at some point edit a few characters to be already dead with parts blown off and missing, so I'd say there is some potential some of these ideas might at some point be implemented (entering the battlefield and seeing remains).

Also with vedrit's help, there could possibly at some point be special death animations for soliders where parts fly off or get vaporized, mutilated, etc., depending on how it goes and what the developers approve of...

...But we're not there yet.

Quote
Is there no creativity in the death department any more?

"death department!?"   :o

zinder

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Re: Question: Why no bleeding
« Reply #6 on: March 24, 2009, 08:46:43 am »
A bleeding system seems to be included in the proposed rework of the medikit algorithm. So it looks like it is in the is being implemented phase.

One another point i don't think the OP is talking about visible effects on the actors, like bood splatters.

dast

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Re: Question: Why no bleeding
« Reply #7 on: March 31, 2009, 11:46:55 am »
yes ! Bleeding was meant as a synonym for damage/round without having the damage effect holding on. No blood and gore :-) just game mechanics.

Visualization is a completly different matter ... regarding 'gore' i think a critical damage system in the model is needed.


Offline Rodmar

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Re: Question: Why no bleeding
« Reply #8 on: August 19, 2016, 03:49:33 pm »
Hello, I'm purposely bringing this topic up because there's no related TODO entry, as it seems.

I figure that BTAxis'answer is still correct, but what about Destructavator's?


Disclaimer: I only want to put the topic on the board again. I figure that I'm not a gore addict, both irl and in games (I'd rather install a realism mod on Dragon Age, for instance).
I'm neither a weapon specialist nor a forensic as well, so that some of the proposals or allegations below might prove erroneous.

Current state of gore effects:
- a "pool of vital fluids" texture is added below the dead model(s): either red blood (Humans, Tamans), or green blood (Ortnoks), depending on the character's definition.

Why adding more gore effects?
- to add more realism and thrill, for those sensible to the scenery. It's not a gorey death animation that is requested here, rather a gorey evidence of death.
- to give clues to the weapons used (on top of the firing/hitting sounds).

Why not adding more gore effects?
- it's got a very low priority level. Nobody currently wants to commit.
- it's more complex than just adding a few texture files, if the texture to be displayed depends on the weapon's type and some randomness as well (body part?), on top on depending on the dead species.
- not to mention the death animation between a normal, living model and an altered, dead model. Currently, living and dead models are the same.
- it's something not really wanted nor useful in an adult tactical game where we have to remain focused on the real threat, and not disturbed by fancy and obtrusing visual effects. Besides, rather no effect (or the symbolic, current one) than a poor-done one.
- likewise, the maps should remain as "light" as possible.

Type of possible gore effects (on dead bodies only):
- ballistic weapons: as currently (no visual effect besides blood pool).
- needlers: either as ballistic weapons, or added "punctuated" texture.
- explosive weapons, small: half-burned (texture), twisted (broken) (model) body. No blood?
- explosive weapons, large, or direct hit: small remains on a area, plus a mishaped torso-like mass (not accounting for body displacement). No blood?
- plasma weapons, small charged bolt: "small" burning on the body (partial incineration).
- plasma weapons, medium/large charged bolt, or continuous beam: member-size flesh stripping (bones visible).
- plasma weapon, ball/grenade/rocket: only bones remain.
- plasma weapon, splash damage: as incendiary.
- incendiary weapons: cumulative effect (?) with any other effect. Right after the hit if an explosion, after one or two rounds if an incendiary field. Blackened (texture) body. Killing flamethrowers and incendiary fields would also alter the model (collapsed, curled body).
- laser weapons: as ballistic weapons? Or a small blackened spot on a random body part?
- particle beam weapon, pistol/riffle: as ballistic weapons? Or a large spot of exposed flesh on a random body part? Blood pool.
- particle beam weapon, heavy: dismembered/severed body (on the spot), blood pool.


What do you think?

What would you want?

What could be done? (including a TODO detailed wish list)