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Author Topic: (New W.I.P. track) Tell me what you think of this...  (Read 8989 times)

Offline Winter

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Re: (New W.I.P. track) Tell me what you think of this...
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2008, 10:27:59 pm »
I like what you're doing with this track. I don't think we could ask for anything more polished -- even the more 'cheerful'-sounding segments towards the end sound like they fit now.

The only thing I can suggest is that in the 'solo' towards the end, you could shred a little more. Put some more life into it. I mean, if you're gonna do a solo, you want to get some life into the song. If this makes sense -- you sound like you're playing rhythm even when you should be playing lead.

Regards,
Winter

Offline Destructavator

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Re: (New W.I.P. track) Tell me what you think of this...
« Reply #16 on: December 07, 2008, 12:18:41 am »
Well, on-the-fly-improv type soloing isn't my strong point with the guitar (I've still been working on it, although I'm slowly getting better), and it didn't help that I didn't sleep well last night, but here is one attempt:

http://www.destructavator.com/public/UFO_AirC_3_7.ogg

Or, if that doesn't sound as good as you hoped, I slightly touched up the last version:

http://www.destructavator.com/public/UFO_AirC_3_7x.ogg

I'd say you could go ahead and commit whichever one of these you think is better, unless you'd rather wait until I have time to try a better solo at the end, which could take a while through the next week or so at least, partly because I have other things to attend to and partly because I've worked with this tune so much I need a serious break from it.  (This happens in songwriting and composition, making a great song but being sick of it at the end because of hearing the same parts over and over again.)

Oh, and I almost forgot, it can go under the same CC license as the other tracks, as long as that license will still work.

I've done a little research on compatibility between Creative Commons and GPL, and I believe GPL version 2 is indeed compatible with the most recent CC attribution-share-alike unported (meaning non-nation specific) as I've seen other free games use this combination for code and media content.

GPL is really meant for programming code, while CC is really better for media and content, from what I've heard.  On the other hand, if you guys want the whole thing GPL, I'm guessing I'd have to upload the "source" which in this case would be the DAW multitrack audio files, which I'm willing to do, but would be a rather large zipped file (The MIDI is tiny but the .WAV files, 24-bit, are quite large).

If anyone here is an expert in these license matters, feel free to correct me.

Regardless, I think this track (either version) should work nicely for the game.

-Dave

Offline Winter

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Re: (New W.I.P. track) Tell me what you think of this...
« Reply #17 on: December 08, 2008, 12:42:59 am »
Well, on-the-fly-improv type soloing isn't my strong point with the guitar (I've still been working on it, although I'm slowly getting better), and it didn't help that I didn't sleep well last night, but here is one attempt:

http://www.destructavator.com/public/UFO_AirC_3_7.ogg

-Dave

Now, see, that's exactly what I'm talking about. I vastly prefer this version to the other one. The solo works out really well and just spruces up the whole track. It no longer feels like it's missing something.

I, for one, am delighted with the track and really appreciate all your work on it. Just consider me a fan.

Regards,
Winter
« Last Edit: December 08, 2008, 12:47:57 am by Winter »

Offline Psawhn

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Re: (New W.I.P. track) Tell me what you think of this...
« Reply #18 on: December 18, 2008, 03:26:28 am »
This also should loop OK in the game, although when I play it looped in VLC, the VLC player on my Windows system cuts off the start and end a little, stutters, then re-buffers the thing.

I've made a small .wav of the loop of version 3.7x

https://webdisk.ucalgary.ca/~djetowns/public_html/misc_files/UFO_AI/ufo_sounds/music/UFO_AirC_3_7x-looped.wav

To get the actual loop, I've got a program called DirectMusic Producer. It's actually a Microsoft program, but it's surprisingly effective and free. (But not open source.:() I just used Audacity to convert .ogg into .wav, and to clean up the ends and stuff.

As you can hear in that example, there is a slightly jarring break when it transitions. Looking at the waveform in Audacity, there aren't any really apparent discontinuities, but you can definitely hear it. I think the problem is that things like reverb and the fall-off of sound are being cut off, even though technically there's no break in sound.

One way that might help to eliminate the 'seam' when looping is to record a bar or two of the beginning after the song ends. Then use Audacity to carefully cut off the start and end such that exactly one complete song remains, but copy the ending bit over the beginning bit.

A simpler method of reducing the jarring effect is to have a few beats of silence before looping, and composed such that it doesn't sound out of place. Here's something you can try for this song: Take that lead-in on the drums you have right at the very end, and move it later by one measure so that there are three beats of silence between the guitar ending and the drums starting. Now take that same drum fill and put it at the beginning of the song so that the file starts with that pick-up. (I also think starting with a pickup beat would help the song slightly.)

Those three beats don't have to be deafening silence, though. You can some light instruments or drum in there, but the important bit is that the sound isn't still fading out when the file cuts off at the end and loops back to the beginning. The audio has to reach silence naturally before it's cut off mechanically.

Offline Mattn

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Re: (New W.I.P. track) Tell me what you think of this...
« Reply #19 on: December 18, 2008, 10:15:10 pm »
should i commit anything of this already?

Offline Destructavator

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Re: (New W.I.P. track) Tell me what you think of this...
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2008, 02:20:33 am »
I believe one of the versions of it was already put into the SVN as "David05.ogg" but don't remember who did it - Still, I'd like to try Psawhn's idea so it would loop better, and perhaps make a few additional tiny touch-ups that I can think of when I play it back.

On the other hand, I'm still quite happy with the 3_7 and 3_7x versions, and for for the moment I have no problem with the version now in the SVN being left in there, I'd imagine it would always be easy to update/replace the file down the road if I can make it better.

Actually, speaking of updating I've already started re-working my older tracks in the game to sound much better, and I'll post links when they are ready, but until then I see no need to remove any of the versions currently in the SVN (Unless you disagree Mattn, after all you are the boss).

Offline Destructavator

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Re: New W I P track Tell me what you think of this
« Reply #21 on: November 09, 2009, 04:08:19 pm »
I think you either love or hate this music, same with Amy Winehouses

I'm honestly not sure what you mean by that - this thread is about a year old, and the audio clips in the links are very out-of-date.

This actually reminds me that I need to update the tracks I was going to finish re-making but forgot about, as I've got much better tools for making music than what I used before, and since this thread was started I also started coding (programming) some of my own tools (VST plug-ins, etc.).

If you give me a few minutes, I can upload an example of what I'm talking about, it sounds much better than these old clips...

Offline Destructavator

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Re: (New W.I.P. track) Tell me what you think of this...
« Reply #22 on: November 09, 2009, 04:39:57 pm »
http://www.destructavator.com/92dl/AirCombat1.flac

I'm not sure off-hand which track this one would replace, and I also wouldn't call this one finished, but this is a more recent version of one of my tracks.

Regarding Amy Winehouse, I've never listened to her, so I can't compare.

Offline Hertzila

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Re: (New W.I.P. track) Tell me what you think of this...
« Reply #23 on: November 09, 2009, 09:10:06 pm »
I'm not sure off-hand which track this one would replace,
That would be "David05.ogg".

Offline Destructavator

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Re: (New W.I.P. track) Tell me what you think of this...
« Reply #24 on: November 09, 2009, 10:17:44 pm »
That would be "David05.ogg".

Ah! Thanks.

Even though it isn't totally finished, how do you think it compares with the year-old previous version?

Side note:  If anyone is interested in the home-made VST plug-ins I'm using now, let me know and when I'm done coding some of them I'll be happy to pass them around as freeware.  They have a few bugs here and there, but they typically perform better than many commercial VSTs in some ways because I don't use mathematical shortcuts in processing algorithms inside of them - unlike the big companies that want to keep some customers who are only hobbyists and use them on "family" computers (meaning having games and other things installed and not being tweaked for audio performance), I write my plug-ins without "watering down" anything.  The downside is they can use more CPU and not run as well on typical family machines, but the upside is the quality comes out better.  'nuff said.

Offline Mattn

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Re: (New W.I.P. track) Tell me what you think of this...
« Reply #25 on: November 09, 2009, 10:39:31 pm »
why don't you release them on sf.net as gpled products? i think there are also gpled audio tools that are able to use vst plugins

Offline Destructavator

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Re: (New W.I.P. track) Tell me what you think of this...
« Reply #26 on: November 09, 2009, 11:57:54 pm »
why don't you release them on sf.net as gpled products? i think there are also gpled audio tools that are able to use vst plugins

Actually I'd really like to do that, and I might, but first I have to check with Steinberg Media Technologies regarding how compatible their SDK source code (required to compile and create VST plug-ins) is with the GPL license.  Steinberg grants their source and SDK under a special agreement that isn't totally free, and can vary depending on the version of the SDK used (I'm using version 2.4, Revision 2 * ).  I've done research with conflicting results - some developers release their plug-in code (minus the SDK source files) under GPL terms and claim that's OK, while others used to do that then stopped, saying that the GPL license is incompatible with Steinberg's SDK agreement.

So, given that the VST SDK agreement can vary by version, and there is also more than one GPL license out there, I have to figure out a working, compatible combination, and if there is such a combination in the first place.  Until then, for right now they will be freeware, as soon as I find that combination I'll open-source them.

* Version 2.4, revision 2 is the most recent version that nearly any DAW software package (program that is used for recording/making music) can run.  Yes, there is a 3.0 series, but many DAWs cannot yet load those types of plug-ins.

** Yes, there are alternatives to the VST format, but very few, and most DAW packages can't run most of the alternative plug-in types.  VST is the common, nearly universal format for audio plug-ins that just about any DAW program or audio editor can run.  It is also cross-platform on all three major OS systems.  Steinberg pretty much has a monopoly on the format and control over who can use it.

Offline Destructavator

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Re: (New W.I.P. track) Tell me what you think of this...
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2009, 12:06:13 am »
Actually Mattn, you might be able to help here - Steinberg is based in Germany, and their license text states that the agreement "is subject to the laws of the Federal Republic of Germany only..."

If you know any good legal experts or lawyers close to where you are, ones familiar with copyright/intellectual property rights under German law, I'd be grateful if you could check on this for me.  I'm in the United States of America, so any lawyer around where I am wouldn't know.

Of course any other people on this forum are also welcome to help here, if they live near or in Germany.

Offline Mattn

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Re: (New W.I.P. track) Tell me what you think of this...
« Reply #28 on: November 10, 2009, 07:39:57 am »
The Linux Multimedia Studio has VST support - maybe you should ask the peoples around there. They can maybe also include the code into their repository. Their irc channel is irc://chat.freenode.net/##lmms (it's also available for Windows btw)

http://lmms.sourceforge.net/home.php

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Re: (New W.I.P. track) Tell me what you think of this...
« Reply #29 on: November 10, 2009, 03:34:09 pm »
Thanks, I'll check that out.