Obama Wins Election

[EchizenR]

Well there must be a reason why you reject such views, whether because you might be afraid to come to terms with certain things, or afraid to be proven wrong, or some other reason. Or is it that everything I've presented is fraudulent?

Anyway, since you've admitted that you didn't read 2 of my longer posts for various reasons, you don't know what I presented, but still probably reject it as inaccurate or [insert derogatory adjective] information. Doesnt it seem like you're illogically closing your mind off to information that you FEEL is fraudulent and the result of paranoia before even looking at it?

I don't understand what is against considering "conspiracy theories". You don't know everything, and neither do I. That's why people shouldn't close their minds to new information. Have you ever asked yourself why you don't take conspiracy theories seriously? Is it because you KNOW it to be false, or are you conditioned to think that away? On 9/11, you're right, that a government cannot deceive its citizen "on that scale" as evident from the many 9/11 truth movements. In fact, a majority of Americans question the official version. Look at Building 7, no plane crash, but 8 hours later, it collapses just like the Twin Towers, in controlled demolition fashion.

By the way, I perfectly appreciate you taking the time to respond, and yes, not banning me for such heretical views.

[BTAxis]

You don't seem to be able to accept that people might simply not agree with you. You think that because you quote websites and other sources, your audience can't deny the truth as you present it, and if they don't accept your reasoning they must have a reason for doing so. You act like a missionary. You try to spread the one true faith amongst the unbelievers, showing your holy book as proof. Only you don't use ancient lore, you use factoids and constructive reasoning. But just as one can deny the bible, so do I deny the validity of your theories and their evidence.

[Destructavator]

EchizenR , Taking a quick glance at a random couple of your "sources" I'd say much of what you've been ranting about is based on a lot of ideas people have thought up as "what if..." or "I wonder..." and then built upon through discussion, snowballing into ideas of totally contrasensical proportions.

Sorry for putting you on the spot, but in glancing at just some of what you post, I see a lot of jumping to wild conclusions left and right, very questionable conclusions that in most cases could be defeated by common sense, but there are just so many of them that it isn't worth the substantial amount of time it would take to show evidence that most of these concepts don't really "hold water."

I have to agree with Winter:

EchizenR, the reason why people don't want to hear what you have to say has nothing to do with the content of your statements, but the way you make them. If you want to know why: it's because the tone of your posts makes you look like a complete and utter whackjob.

Honestly EchizenR, if someone were in front of me telling me everything you've posted here, I can picture such a person as a wild-eyed, downright frantic individual running in circles screaming "Help!  Help!  Mass government conspiracies in action!  We're all slaves!  We're all going to be controlled and suffer a fate worse than death!  Aaaaaahhhhh!!! (pant) (pant) (pant)"

Adding to the problem is the sheer volume of all of your ideas, bombarding the rest of us with them, as if to intimidate or induce a panic.

Do governments lie? Yes.  Do politicians lie? Yes.  Do they cover things up and manipulate things?  Yes.  All of them do.  Do they do it to the extent that you imply, taking it that far?  I doubt it, I have to say no when it comes to that.

Please understand I'm not trying to insult you or make you feel unwelcome here, but, with regards to all these theories, yikes, calm down.

[Juni Ori]

I must step in here and say, that even though speculating and suspecting things is actually very intellectual thing to do, so is also proving them right or wrong. I read much of the links and as Destructavator said, they all seem to be very imagination based what-if stories. Nothing wrong in them, unless it is underlined that it is speculative. Perhaps a bit surprisingly - even to me - I have to say that really huge conspiracies can be made. And has been made. Lies above lies have so many times in history mislead people. Thus I don't totally deny the chance of 9/11 being planned and performed by US government or high ranking agencies. However, I still haven't seen even a single proof that holds water, and thus I don't find it believeable and I think US governemnt just tried to benefit from the opportunity. However, it would be easy to misjudge you as "frantic individual running in circles screaming..." because it might not be true. Still, even I find it difficult to see you as anything else.

Obama's victory was clear, congratulations to him. However, I am, as I have stated elsewhere, very concerned of the situation and perhaps hoped the other outcome... Let's hope my concerns are pointless.

[EchizenR]

Very amusing analogy. I don't profess to hold the "one truth faith", in fact you'll probably agree that no one does. And I don't agree with the missionary label because if there is any chance that I am wrong, and there is evidence for it, I will not religiously hold on to a belief that has been proven wrong. But, as Jefferson said:

"Single acts of tyranny may be ascribed to accidental opinion of the day but a Series of oppressions, begun at a distinguished period and pursued unalterably through every change of ministers plainly proves a deliberate, systematic plan of reducing us to slavery."

(And that is why I presented evidence that an Obama presidency would not change anything because he is also a corporate insider, evident from his support for a trillion dollar gift to Wall Street banks- which I elaborated in my first few posts.)

Whatever evidence I've presented "proves a deliberate, systematic plan of reducing us to slavery". If you don't agree, there MUST be a reason. Is it possible for anyone to act without rational reasoning? You probably say that you don't have a reason for rejecting whatever I've presented because it might have stirred up some emotional response to the perception of a conspiracy, and having been conditioned to reject that, you do. I'm guessing here, so don't get offended.

If such evidence is useless, pray tell me how would you come to a conclusion about objective reality?

Sorry for putting you on the spot, but in glancing at just some of what you post, I see a lot of jumping to wild conclusions left and right, very questionable conclusions that in most cases could be defeated by common sense, but there are just so many of them that it isn't worth the substantial amount of time it would take to show evidence that most of these concepts don't really "hold water."

I have to agree with Winter:

Honestly EchizenR, if someone were in front of me telling me everything you've posted here, I can picture such a person as a wild-eyed, downright frantic individual running in circles screaming "Help!  Help!  Mass government conspiracies in action!  We're all slaves!  We're all going to be controlled and suffer a fate worse than death!  Aaaaaahhhhh!!! (pant) (pant) (pant)"

Adding to the problem is the sheer volume of all of your ideas, bombarding the rest of us with them, as if to intimidate or induce a panic.

Do governments lie? Yes.  Do politicians lie? Yes.  Do they cover things up and manipulate things?  Yes.  All of them do.  Do they do it to the extent that you imply, taking it that far?  I doubt it, I have to say no when it comes to that.

Really? Please enlighten me. I would really like be able to connect with people on these issues so could you tell me one issue that you think is highly illogical and labels me as a raving lunatic?

I have never tried to scare-monger and if I have, I apologised. My aim was to get people to realise that reality is not as it seems. I know I can get long-minded at times, because there is so much to say. That image that you described is quite funny though it is ironic that you used such an imagery because (think about it) if most people rejects controversial and challenging ideas, then aren't they slaves? Except in the intellectual sense? In fact, I think its impossible for someone like me to run around screaming like you pictured. Probably, you got the idea from TV and thus, could explain your perception of such people. Another irony would be that when you realise that your mind has been controlled by conditioning, you dont panic, but become able to react in a calmer way. Suppose you know that a government will carry out a terror attack. When the terror attack hits, instead of being caught up in the wave of fear that is designed to sweep the country, and perhaps be used to pass, say, the PATRIOT Act, you know who is to be blamed and will avoid being emotionally exploited.

On 9/11, could anyone tell me how WTC building 7 collapsed just like the two Twin Towers, in controlled demolition style? Even though it wasn't hit by a plane and had only 2 isolated pockets of fire? Is not this proof of some, if not entire, government complicity?

By presenting the "dark-side" of the world, I don't intend to frighten. Knowledge is power, and if you know, you can do something to change it. Like I pointed out in a previous post, corporations have exploited Humanity to an absurd degree. But if no one (or at least most people) is aware of it, then there cannot be any correction to society.

When you say that you don't think governments "take it that far", what do you mean? Do you mean you THINK they will never kill their own citizens in a terror attack? Well, lets just use 9/11 as an example, as usual. Historically, there is a precedent for this kind of inhumane treatment by governments. In 1963, the Joint Chiefs of Staffs drew up Operation Northwoods which spelled out a terror attacks conducted by the government to be blamed on Cuba and justify an invasion of the communist island (sound familiar)? Let me quote some stuff from the declassified documents which you can easily get on the public domain.
http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/news/20010430/northwoods.pdf

"...have considered...a request...for brief but precise description of pretexts which would provide justification for US military intervention in Cuba."

"...based on the premise that US military intervention will result from a period of heightened US-Cuban tensions which place the [US] in the position of suffering justifiable grievances."

"Such a plan would enable a logical build-up of incidents to be combined with other seemingly unrelated events to camouflage the ultimate objective and create the necessary impression of Cuban rashness and irresponsibility on a large scale, directed at other countries as well as the [US]."

"A series of well coordinated incidents will be planned to take place in and around Guantanamo to give genuine appearance of being done by hostile Cuban forces...land friendly Cubans in uniform "over-the-fence" to stage attack on base...blow up ammunition inside the base; start fires...burn aircraft on air base...lob mortar shells from outside of base into base...sabotage ship in harbour...sink ship near habour entrance..."

"...blow up a US ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba...blow up a drone (unmanned) vessel anywhere in the Cuban waters... We could develop a Communist Cuban terror campaign in the Miami area, in other Florida cities and even in Washington..."

Need I quote more, although there IS more...There is no need to fear, or panic. Simply being aware of this is enough to open your mind to more information which will enable one to realise what is happening. And yes, that's what I do. Using the information I have, I come to a conclusion about the world. What is wrong with that?

[Destructavator]

OK, I think I've already gotten deeper into this than I've already cared to go.  I have better things to do, things that need to get done today, and I don't have time to worry and be a basket case all day long in some paranoid state.  I'm going to drop out of this discussion and get on with these other things, and if the government is controlling me while I go take care of these other things, spying on me, reporting my activities to aliens, whatever, I don't care - What the hell.  Somewhere, at some point, one has to put their foot down and say "enough is enough!"  Well, that's what I'm doing here.

Before I go, as my last note here, I'll say that if you were to apply that wild imagination and creativity of yours in the right way along with your long-winded thoughts, I'd imagine you could very well write a good book or two, and perhaps make something out of it.

[EchizenR]

...if the government is controlling me while I go take care of these other things, spying on me, reporting my activities to aliens, whatever, I don't care - What the hell.  Somewhere, at some point, one has to put their foot down and say "enough is enough!"  Well, that's what I'm doing here.

Before I go, as my last note here, I'll say that if you were to apply that wild imagination and creativity of yours in the right way along with your long-winded thoughts, I'd imagine you could very well write a good book or two, and perhaps make something out of it.

I don't know what you're ostracising whatever I've posted, because I have not asserted anything about governments "controlling" people or "aliens" spying on people. I'm talking about the growing governmental powers that are bordering, in some cases, becoming tyrannical. Which is very real in the world. Since when did the Founding Fathers intended for the Executive Branch to usurp the checks and balance system for a system where the president can freely pass Executive Orders and write them into law?

I don't know whether to laugh or to cry. I've presented a primary historical document, the Northwood Documents and yet, you still think I'm a paranoid nut. Its in the history books.

[Juni Ori]

On the other hand world has changed significantly from the days of Founding Fathers, so I don't find that point valid.

[Sarin]

I don't know whether to laugh or to cry. I've presented a primary historical document, the Northwood Documents and yet, you still think I'm a paranoid nut. Its in the history books.

Intriguing...you know, if there really was a huge conspiracy in place, don't you think that unclassifying such document would be kind of...stupid?

And to respond on previous posts...

Without the corporatocracy, Humanity has the chance to create a substantially better society. While Exxon and BP just made $14.8 billion and $10 billion in profits during the 3rd quarter of 2008, half the world lives without electricity. This is coming 2 years after MIT published a report that states with current technology, we could extract 4,000 years of geothermal energy. Clean, renewable and unlimited. Tell me, what would happen to those profits if geothermal energy was utilised to lift the Third World out of poverty? With an abundance of energy, just like air, it cannot be charged anymore, and would also allow an unlimited supply of clean water. And thats not including wind, tidal, wave and solar (for which there is now a 100% efficient solar panel, while consumer types are only 14-20%). If only 1 hour of sunlight at noon is harnessed, the earth could be powered for an entire year. However, the obstacle which energy corporations create is to restrict the utilisation of batteries which store solar energy. While they hold the patents, energy independence will continue to be elusive. Is this not a deliberate attempt to hinder technological advancement in order to continue making profits?

so...first, you mistook "profit" and "turnover". It's hellota difference.
Almost 100% efficent solar panel exist...but has to be kept at near absolute zero temperatures to preserve superconductive properties. Those that have high efficency generally are damn expensive, that's why you don't see them much for sale. Normal people can'ŧ afford them, or they just save less than they cost. And by the way...you realize that solar panels take hellot of space, and we need it for other things too?
Wind, tidal energy. You know, variants for use for larger scale are still competing with technical problems. They often have unexpected impact on nature, for example they often generate low-frequency noise that, while humans don't hear it, drive some animals mad. Geothermal energy...you know, while there IS a lot of power available, accessing just minority of it would be actually far beyond economical possibilities of most corporatins or governments.
By the way, storing of energy in large quantities is actually very, VERY problematic. And evidently don't understand economics at all. If any corporations had the patent on anything really groundbreaking, the best thing to do to make profit would be to actually to use it to gain monopoly, or let others use it too...for a VERY big money. Because, patents have limited duration you know. Keeping it secret would be the worst thing to do.

1 billion and likely more people go hungry everyday, 35000 children die of hunger everyday. While in 2006, the FAO admitted in its report, "The State of Food Insecurity in the World Today" that global food production is able to feed every single person on the planet and could still produce more. But, Big Agro like Monsato and Cargil are pushing GMOs that not only have a lower yield, but they destroy the livelihoods of small farmers because the GM seeds are 1000% more expensive than traditional seeds and cannot be reused because of "terminator" technology. While GMOs, and related insecticides are needed to grow their crops, these corporations will continue to make obscene profits while small farmers are plunged deeper and deeper into debt. Today, 1000 farmers commit suicide in India every month because of the enormous debt which growing GMOs bring. Furthermore, the distribution of food is horribly uneven; in order to feed paying customers like us, Big Agro divert most food to developed countries leaving Third World nations to starve even with food aid.

Earth would be able to produce much more food. But where do you want to put all those 6 bilion people, industies, besides you need space for industrial crops, infrastructure etc...
You really blame corporations for everything. But why do people of Africa, Myanmar or North Korea, and many others, starve? It's because their country is ruled by people either incompetent, or too egoistic and power-hungry to really give a damn and do something with it. To relate it to previous part, you really can't build a power plant where it would be destroyed before being completed.
GMOs are very complex matter and you really don'ŧ understand a bit. Just about terminators...unlike animals, plants like crosbreeding, and the do it very often. When you have a large field of crops that are modified ot be resistant against some parasites, and you keep them fertile, it is very likely they will not only spread, but also crossbreed and pass some of their genes on their wild relatives. That will have significant impact on ecosystem, and eventually it increases chances that those parasites will evolve resistency...if you don'ŧ believe me, there was a big problem with GMO grass at some golf clubs in California I think...I believe it was this spring or summer. And that is only one of many problems. You know...gene manipulation is a tricky thing.

It is the existence of these exploitative corporations that perpetrates misery worldwide. How are those people not serfs, when corporations seek to make profits by placing it above human concern? In the US, 910000 jobs have been lost since the beginning of 2008 due to the offshoring craze. Even with record profits, companies still seek to relocate, depriving blue collar workers of a livelihood. Worst, banks have just robbed the American people of a trillion dollars, with support of yours truly Obama, not to make loans to the people, but to give out huge salary bonuses and acquire insolvent companies and using the money to clear their debts. Is this even human?

Freedom to act brings freedom to be selfish. And freedom is what western civilisation is based on. While I agree that a lot of corporations act selfishly without concern of other humans, it is a result of democracy, where acceptable compromise should emerge if everyone will pursue his own goals. As we can see, it is far from perfect. But what else you want? Communism? Kim Jong Il (if he's still alive) can tell you how it works. Military dictature? Myanmar, once one of jewels of British empire, is now one of top ten poor countries. Monarchy? History of Europe will tell....

What you need is to get your ass off chair and see the world how it really is.

[Duke]

so...first, you mistook "profit" and "turnover". It's hellota difference.

No, in this particular case he is right. It is actually profit, not turnover.
IIRC Exxon made some 40 Billion $ profit in 2007. Stock value was something like 360 Billion last week.

btw Thx for your other explanations. I had heard of the 25-30% cells used in satelites and some 42% in a labratory, but not of those 100% at 0 Kelvin.

[Sarin]

It's not 100% anyway...I'm not sure about exact specs but I've heard about 80-90ish...100% is actually impossible. But of course, conditions nescessary to operate such cells make them impossible to use.

[Duke]

@Sarin:
I suppose they got some 85% at -272 Celsius and said "in theory it *would* be 100% at 0 Kelvin".
Such a statement quickly evolves to "there are cells of 100% efficiency" in the hands of conspiracy theory creators...

@EchizenR:
I suppose you agree that those 100% solar panels that have to be cooled to 0 Kelvin will NOT solve our energy problems.

So now that we have proven that at least *one* of those 283 arguments (a rough guess) you brought up in this thread was *wrong*, what will you do ?
Will you
a) just continue rambling with the remaining 282 arguments OR
b) take a much closer look at the arguments you use in the future (maybe ask someone who *really* understands)

[EchizenR]

@Duke
The 100% efficient solar panel I was talking about was unveiled only recently, and it was by a research team, if I mentioned anything about commercial production, my mistake, I apologise.

New solar cell material achieves almost 100% efficiency, could solve world-wide energy problems
http://www.tgdaily.com/content/view/39807/113/

Of course I could be wrong about the '283' issues I brought up. And hope that someone could disprove them and correct me instead of implying that I'm mentally unsound and by extension everything I bring up is fraudulent. I'm still waiting for anyone to disprove the existence of the Bilderberg Group, the Building 7 collapse on 9/11, the corporate connections that I pointed out Obama has (to prove that whoever is elected has already been prepicked for us- can any of you move away from his nice-sounding rhetoric?). I'm not trying to impose my worldview on anyone. I guess what I'm trying to do is to get people to look at information which they've automatically shut their minds off to. You may say that 9/11 was not an inside job. Fine, but surely there is something to the scores of eye-witnesses' and fire-fighters' accounts of multiple explosions on the ground level right? 

@Juni Ori
Well, if the Republic is out-of-date, I suppose fascism should be fine with you. Corporatism as Mussolini said. Liberties that are inherent to Man are not valid today I suppose. "We hold it to be self-evident that all Man are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights..." Thats all crap with you I guess.

@Sarin
Whether it was stupid to declassify it or not, the point is that it HAS BEEN declassified. Can you DENY ITS EXISTENCE? Heck, the government even released plans for the deployment of US troops on US soil under the FOIA just recently. And we're talking about events more than 40 years ago. If all of you cannot accept what I'm talking about, at least go look at the Northwoods Documents, which you will find out I'm not making up because it is there. Detailed clearly, as I've pointed out, is that the US Government, in that case, actually considered carrying out terror attacks on their citizens to further a geopolitical aim (Afghanistan?), fortunately Kennedy didn't carry it out.

In fact, Seymour Hersh exposed a similar proposal from one of Cheney's meeting,

"There was a dozen ideas proffered about how to trigger a war. The one that interested me the most was why don’t we build — we in our shipyard — build four or five boats that look like Iranian PT boats. Put Navy seals on them with a lot of arms. And next time one of our boats goes to the Straits of Hormuz, start a shoot-up."

Interview with Hersh: http://thinkprogress.org/2008/07/31/cheney-proposal-for-iran-war/
Article: http://www.newyorker.com/reporting/2008/07/07/080707fa_fact_hersh

There is nothing conspiratorial about it. Its just dirty politics, which nobody here wants to admit. Governments do carry out terrorist attacks. Been that way since Hitler burned his own Reichstage down, to Operation Gladio in W.Europe during the Cold War- where the US Government trained squads to bomb civilian targets and blame it on the communists, to 9/11.

I agree that in the case of Myanmar and N.Korea, the governments are to blame, as far as I know. But the suffering in Africa? Corporations. A case in point, the Congolese crisis which the media has portrayed as a tribal conflict. In actuality, the Rwanda and Uganda-funded militias are proxies of corporations (about 100 of them, according to the UN) which are used to rape the Congo of its timber, gold, diamonds and coltan (of which the Congo is the world's primary supplier of this "grey gold" found in all mobile phones).

U.S./U.K. Allies Grab Congo Riches and Millions Die
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=10815

About the geothermal energy that can fuel Humanity, at least you admit that there is lots of it (4,000 years worth according to MIT), when it comes down to energy which could raise the standard of living of billions and alleviate suffering, shouldn't the first thought be :"Can we do this?", instead of "Do we have the money to do this?"? That is what happens when you place profit above the human concern. Well, if you think its too idealistic, fine... thats how inhumane the world is. But think about the possibilities that open up as soon as unlimited energy is harnessed.

Yes, GM is complicated, and could in fact give rise to whatever-resistant crops and so on... But consider that farmers are charged exorbitant prices for seeds and insecticide, a problem which GMO should have solved, its simply a policy of economic warfare. As I pointed out, GM companies charge farmers 1000% higher prices for GM seeds than traditional seeds do, and causes profound human suffering in the name of making money.

The GM genocide: Thousands of Indian farmers are committing suicide after using genetically modified crops
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=10829

Yes, I admit that I'm not qualified to talk about the scientific aspects of GM, but it seems to me that GM companies are using GM technology to wipe out small farmers and monopolise the food industry, which they already have done. Destroying the crop's ability to produce viable seeds for the following season with "terminator" technology is just a corporate scheme to keep the farmer dependent on the corporations for more seeds and continue making money for them. Why the need for such an unnatural use of science then?

It may or may not be good that GM genes spread into the wild. Not going into the ecological aspects here, not qualified again, but... since companies like Monsato hold the patents on their GM genes, when it spreads into a field where a farmer was not planting GM seeds, and the farmer ends up with some GM crop, Monsato sues the farmer into bankruptcy for infringing on copyrights. Many a farmer's livelihood have been destroyed this way.

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Goliath_and_David:_Monsanto%27s_Legal_Battles_against_Farmers

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not a Luddite and am for technology. But my issue is with the inhumane people controlling the technology. You say that energy companies should use groundbreaking technology to get more profits instead of suppressing it. But as soon as the patent is utilised, the pandora's box is opened and the possibility of a monopoly disappears because the information has been released. Why are we still using fossil fuel-powered cars when there has been air-powered ones for more than 100 years and also water-powered cars?

I attack the establishment because I know there can be a better alternative, which I would be glad if you would examine. Yes, I need to experience the world because unlike any of you, I'm have not got off my chair my whole life... I want to bring your attention to the monetary system. Money is used to regulate scarcity. Because paper is scarce, limited, it has a price which money represents. Likewise, energy, water etc. But air isn't charged because there is an abundant supply of it. But today, with an abundance of energy (geothermal) and an abundance of food, wouldn't it be better to abolish money? With money and the PROFIT MOTIVE, which drives exploitation and social neurosis, gone, the impetus to use our advanced technology will only be for the betterment of society, not to make profits. The human concern is placed first, whereas today, profits are placed first. While all of us can claim a relatively comfortable life than people in the Third World, the other half of the world is suffering. Being a social institution since a technology-less age, money is obsolete when we can use technology to give us abundance. I know this sounds crazy and radical (even communist, but under communism, there is still money, so the suffering continues), but that is the alternative which would give us a substantially better society where money isn't used to enslave anymore.

If anyone is interested, information on this movement can be found at:
http://www.thezeitgeistmovement.com/

[Darkpriest667]

I had a valid post in this topic and now it has been hijacked bya  troller.... Eichzhnereneraea i dont know who  you are... but this topic isnt about government conspiracies its about Obama winning the election ....


now.... about the solar cells  The DOD has been throwing up satellites MOSTLY powered by small nuclear fission devices... However some of the Solar Cell satellites are up there but none of them are weaponized because solar energy doesnt produce enough power for weapons capabilities... Most of the solar cell satellites are used for observation (read spying) and the like... However... They are quite useful and iI expect to see them used more in the future.


Board master for future reference... if i make a topic and its hijacked by this troller im going to send complaints in until you ban me or do something about it.. I dont like having to read through 50 pages of garbage that is non topic to find one piece of topic information


NOW as for Obama.... The Europeans have criticized Americans for being a racist nation for years and years... Keep in mind these are the same people that brought you slavery and endentured servitude... However... Did you know that not 1 single European country has had a minority leader not a single one.. not spain not portugal not switzerland not france not england or germany or poland or austria not norway or finland or Sweden not the czech republic or slovakia not belarus not lithuania not ukraine....... So the next time your european brothers start shouting american racist make sure they're well aware they havent put any minorities into the seat of power of their .... ahem... Small GDP countries... compared to the biggest economy in the world..

[EchizenR]

Yeah I agree, the racial double standards against America will diminish significantly.

By the way, I admit I "hijacked" this topic but my first post here was on topic as far as it concerns the president-elect Obama. I simply said that he is just like the previous presidents before him with regard to corporate credentials. But people started bashing me for having dissenting opinions before even checking the validity of my statements or the evidence offered.