Base design

[Redux]

Hi!
I'm wondering if you're going to expand the base layout and let the user control the design of the base more?

In UFO the base layout was 6x6 rooms and only(?) the hangars were 2x2 sized. One of the things I really liked with UFO were the base-building, i.e. designing a base that was so defendable as possible. But then you need space to do it.

I guess you are (in the future) going to have alien attacks on the bases and then it would be nice to fully be able to control the placements of the entrance, command centre, build corridors, choke-points and so on. And also build defence stations, guard rooms etc. (also removing or moving base facilities as the base expands and changes).

My suggestion would be to expand the base size to 10x10 tiles and 2-3 floors. The engine can handle it, since some maps are built like that (the Bunker for instance).

It's fun to build bases! And imagine how fun it would be to defend your own tailored base against a horde of aliens attacking it! Let them come...
 /Redux

[BTAxis]

See http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Proposals/Larger_Bases

Also, I tried a full 6x6 grid, and the game can't handle it (crashes). The bunker map isn't a random map assembly, and it's nowhere close to 10x10 (it's more like 3x4 in terms of base facilities).

[Mayhem]

The base units do seem a little arbitrary with regards to what is open and what isn't.  The small UFO hangers especially - do they really need 3 open doors at ground level?  One massive roof opening would seem more sensible.  Other buildings have doors at ground level that are closed, it seems odd that the UFO hangers would have 3 doors left open when under attack.

The workshop doesn't need its own door, either, as anything coming in and out can go through the designated base entrance.  What else is the designated entrance for, after all?

Similarly, from the way it is described there is actually no reason at all for the radar to have an above ground opening.

Aliens should be able to effect entry through:

Entrance (duh!)
Missile Silos
All 4 hangers.

These are the only facilities IIRC that actually need independent access to the surface.

HOWEVER:
Only the entrance hall really needs ground level doors.
Alien entrance to the others should only be through breaking through the hatches in the roof and dropping down into the base.

After all, why even bother with a special entrance stair-well if so many other parts of the compound have doors you can just waltz through at ground level?

[Sophisanmus]

It does seem to me that the existing base map tiles were a bit shallow; no more than a few feet under the surface.  I don't know much about bunker construction, but it seems that facing such powerful enemy weapons, some extra dirt couldn't hurt...

[TrashMan]

Well, if the new proposal does come trough (having base levels), I'd say it's a improvement. But since that will give you more space, methinks it would be cool to add another small base structure - defense post. A highly defensable position with automated defenses.

[Mattn]

we have that already - that are the installations (ufo yard, defense and so on)

[Kildor]

No, not SAM, but security post for tactical base defence, as in XCom-3

[Mayhem]

Frankly, a defensive position ought to be included automatically as part of the entrance.

[Falion]

Frankly, a defensive position ought to be included automatically as part of the entrance.

All too true, no military type installation with "anything" worth guarding, would leave the entrance to such a facility unmanned and unguarded. In the scenario of AI, it would be even more "unlikely" that any installation's entrance way would be left unguarded. Most likely a small garrison and some "heavy" weapons of some sort would be in place 24/7 to keep any would be intruders from invading the base.

[Destructavator]

I would think it would also make sense to have forces outside and above ground that patrol and defend the base.  Wouldn't it make sense to have a base defense mission have two parts - one that is above ground outside with a landed UFO, and a second that is the interior of the base if the aliens get that far?

After all, in various versions of X-COM/UFO and the inspired re-makes, some alien base assault missions have two parts, one that is outside where the goal is to get to the entrance and get inside, and the second map where everything takes place inside.

I don't claim to be an expert, but with regards to military installations, even ones that don't disclose what they do there, as far as I know many have fences, walls, etc., outside, or at least some kind of exterior defenses and agents, officers, or soldiers, etc. that patrol the area and control and monitor anything that approaches the place.  Heck, even special places in urban areas have armed security and special police forces that patrol.

I actually have a little bit of experience going to such places and know a few things about this, partly from my last job, and I can't elaborate on too many details but I'll say that I don't know of any such installations or real-life bases where you aren't normally detected , watched, and have to pass through a good deal of checkpoints and outer patrols before you even get close to the place, and then pass through more security getting inside.

[BTAxis]

That's out of the question. One of the biggest objections to larger bases (by mattn) was that base missions already take too long. With the expansion as written up we've pretty much stretched the mission length to the limit.

[Mayhem]

If anything, I'd like to see the above ground area shrunk entirely, with just about enough room for the facilities that require surface access plus a landed UFO.  This, combined with sensible base-building to provide defensible chokepoints, would make base defence missions quite short.

[BTAxis]

The point of base assaults is that aliens have a considerable chance of damaging your facilities or vehicles. Base defence missions aren't about the player easily holding down the fort. By that token, I wouldn't assume the missions would be short if I were you.

[Surrealistik]

While I disagree with the notion that base defenses should be short and easy, I'm definitely of the opinion that strategic base construction should play a signifigant role. Further, I also agree that designated chokepoint/security facilities should exist (including one integrated into the main entrance itself). Though these might afford signifigant advantages, chances are a fight against a landed alien dreadnought, where you're substantially outnumbered and outgunned, will still prove challenging.

[Sophisanmus]

Just a quick opinion here, but if the aliens have breached the base proper, most static defenses at the entrance(s) are already trashed.  Some light, trap-like emplacements scattered around might be nice, but as for anything significant to soften/hold aliens at the entrance...  maybe holding back the aliens for a round or two, or at least occupying their attention, but not so significant that they would still be all or mostly intact by the time the PHALANX defenders arrive to back them up.