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Author Topic: Grenade Launcher  (Read 19669 times)

Offline tchristney

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Grenade Launcher
« on: February 17, 2008, 12:54:45 am »
I am wondering why the grenade launcher is so short ranged. Most modern GL's have at least 150 m range, with many over 300 m (both being effective range, not maximum range.) The GL in UFO:AI barely makes it past most modern launcher's minimum range. For example, you would think that PHALANX would get something at least as good as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milkor_MGL.

Offline tobbe

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Re: Grenade Launcher
« Reply #1 on: February 17, 2008, 01:21:27 am »
Imho the relativly small range is a major in game balancing factor...this way you have use some tactics...

Offline BTAxis

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Re: Grenade Launcher
« Reply #2 on: February 17, 2008, 01:49:30 am »
Seriously. We've been over this. The grenade launcher, as well as the other weapons, is not remotely close to reality when it comes to range. If it was, it'd cover the entire map. And where's the fun in that?

Surrealistik

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Re: Grenade Launcher
« Reply #3 on: February 17, 2008, 09:17:25 am »
The fun that comes with owning most of the opposing force on the first turn is readily apparent I would think :P.

nemchenk

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Re: Grenade Launcher
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2008, 12:01:59 pm »
But then, BTAxis, what is the point of it? Its range seems to be *just* longer than that of thrown grenade. Just get rid of it :P

Offline tobbe

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Re: Grenade Launcher
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2008, 12:15:49 pm »
But then, BTAxis, what is the point of it? Its range seems to be *just* longer than that of thrown grenade. Just get rid of it :P

1) This *just* is an important point. Every hex of increased range is quite valuable.
2) The granade launcher is MUCH more efficient than single granades!
3) Single granades still fulfill their purpose in certain situations.

Imo the granade launcher is one of the best balanced weapons in the game. It has a well defined purpose, it stays effecient through a long time period, while not being under- or overpowered...

There are some other weapons, which could be removed right now. The GL is definitely not one of them!

SpaceWombat

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Re: Grenade Launcher
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2008, 03:15:35 pm »
My problem with the grenade launcher is the somehow "fixed" ballistic curve.
It should be possible to shoot a grenade up in a steep angle onto the roof while the soldier stands close to the building. That's not possible because of the flat ballistic curve that only simulates a max range ground to ground but not a steep angle for low range but high altitude.

I don't know if this could be changed but I consider it very valuable for tactics.

Surrealistik

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Re: Grenade Launcher
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2008, 07:41:30 pm »
Selectable angles for the grenade launcher is definitely a feature that should be added as it opens up all sorts of new tactical possibilities.

Offline Mattn

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Re: Grenade Launcher
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2008, 08:13:47 pm »
Selectable angles for the grenade launcher is definitely a feature that should be added as it opens up all sorts of new tactical possibilities.

try to hit shift - this might not be 100% what you want - but still might be nice to know

Offline Psawhn

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Re: Grenade Launcher
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2008, 08:31:48 pm »
Being able to select the low-angle or high-angle solution to the parabolic curve would be very useful for thrown grenades as well.

Back to the original idea of increasing grenade range: I was just thinking that would change it to become more of a tactical artillery weapon, because of the small map sizes. :P

Offline tchristney

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Re: Grenade Launcher
« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2008, 07:45:00 pm »
Quote
Back to the original idea of increasing grenade range: I was just thinking that would change it to become more of a tactical artillery weapon, because of the small map sizes.

That's what I was thinking as well. There are other ways to balance the GL other than by giving it a ludicrously low range. A minimum range setting, a large scatter for three round bursts, an increased reload cost, a decreased magazine size, increased shooting cost, etc. As it stands the GL is basically a short range assault weapon. I rarely even take them because it is exceedingly difficult to get into range with them. It is usually better to take a rifle and a belt full of hand grenades.

There must be a real-life limitation to the idea of a GL, or they would be the standard infantry weapon. Why not try to model those limitations?


Surrealistik

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Re: Grenade Launcher
« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2008, 08:03:24 pm »
The grenade launcher is extremely useful despite its limited range, between its power, and indirect fire capabilities. If you're any good, you can also extend its effective range by exploiting timed rounds and residual momentum, which can serve to propel grenades to their intended target.

nemchenk

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Re: Grenade Launcher
« Reply #12 on: February 19, 2008, 11:28:59 am »
There must be a real-life limitation to the idea of a GL, or they would be the standard infantry weapon. Why not try to model those limitations?
Here here.

I would hazard a guess at:
* weight, of weapon and ammo
* rate of fire
* accuracy
* training time?

I think we can model all of these in the game.  o.O

SpaceWombat

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Re: Grenade Launcher
« Reply #13 on: February 19, 2008, 05:39:52 pm »
The maximum range is not the only limitation to the grenade launcher. The longer the shot the more likely you will miss (right now its quite accurate even on max range though).

How about this:
Max range should be prolonged. There is no minimum range because you can hit anything near you using a steep angle ("minimum range" for direct shots because you will have too much propulsion on short range direct shots).
BUT the accuracy is highly dependent on the "flight time" of the grenade. If you dare to shoot something 10 metres away with a steep angle factors like wind, rotation of the grenade due to inaccuracy of the shell etc. lead to a high miss probability.
This way the grenade launcher will never become useless but its effectiveness would be at a middle range just as we would consider it normal in reality.

nemchenk

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Re: Grenade Launcher
« Reply #14 on: February 19, 2008, 07:32:50 pm »
+ Recoil, + Encumberance

SpaceWombat, do you think what you are describing can be done by "spread"?