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Author Topic: Scientist skill feature suggestion  (Read 8614 times)

larson

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Scientist skill feature suggestion
« on: February 16, 2008, 09:58:28 pm »
If we are going to individually recruit scientists I have a suggestion. After the recruiting interface and some other interfaces get cleaned up, the scientists could get individual skills. A few examples would be:

  • Vehicles and v.weapons
  • Alien biology and theory
  • Personal equipment (guns and armor)
  • Quantum physics (alien tech theory)

This would introduce some resource mgmt for the research too. It wouldn't be necessary to make a ton of difference, just let those good at managment gain a day or two in the research of a big topic. Remember, we use the best of mankind, they can do any research, but is bound to be more skilled in some field of science.

While we're at it, make that research guy that write the reports a fixed member of that research staff (first in the list), and max his stats in all subjects. He should be the best scientist that mankind could find in the 2080's, so let him have his 15 minutes (and put some developers mug on his model skin) :-)

By the way, is it some model limitation that makes both scientists and medics look the same? I'd suggest a white thigh length labcoat for the scientists and maybe white trousers and short sleeve shirt for the medics. Possibly medic green for them. That long coat they are using now gives me the shivers...

nemchenk

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Re: Scientist skill feature suggestion
« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2008, 10:12:57 pm »
I've been toying with a similar idea, but one that takes skills even further ;D Just have one "class" of employee (Agents) and have skills for Science, Medicine, Piloting, etc... "Dammit, all my soldiers just bought it. Dare I press my researchers into a Terror response unit and risk them getting killed?"

My suggestion is just blue-sky thinking Thanks for listening! :D

Offline eleazar

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Re: Scientist skill feature suggestion
« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2008, 10:17:44 pm »
If we are going to individually recruit scientists I have a suggestion. After the recruiting interface and some other interfaces get cleaned up, the scientists could get individual skills.

The purpose is to make optimizing research a big pain?

The focus is the squad-based tactics.  Trying to cram as much detail into the secondary aspects of the game hurts the whole, IMHO.

larson

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Re: Scientist skill feature suggestion
« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2008, 11:04:18 pm »
The purpose is to make optimizing research a big pain?

The focus is the squad-based tactics.  Trying to cram as much detail into the secondary aspects of the game hurts the whole, IMHO.

Optimizing it should be a bit of extra work. But you wouldn't lose much by just defaulting your research work. As it is now, you cannot make any improvments in research speed, short of employing more scientists and building more labs. If you use weapon specialists to research blaster rifle, you would gain a day or two of research time. If you use biologists to do the same research you have to wait a bit longer.

Let's say todays stats let a 10 man lab research an item in 20 days. Let that be skill level 80, the average of all skills for any given scientist. Four skills gives 320  points to share , with a max of 100. The above average research team have 800 skill in one subject and work 20 days, which gives 16000 skill points used. Now manage your lab teams with a better team for this subject, get the scientists with 88 skill points. Now you decrease the research time to about 18 days.

The easy way to manage this is of course to put different teams in different labs and send them the items to research according to their skill. To try to keep a complete skill roster at one base and try to set up a team for each different subject would surely be a pain. Instead you will have one base to research weapons, one to research aliens and so on. When a branch get exhausted you can reorganize your teams, they all have all skills, just in different numbers.

I would like it...

Offline tobbe

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Re: Scientist skill feature suggestion
« Reply #4 on: February 17, 2008, 01:15:58 am »

I would like it...

I would not. I agree with eleazer, it would make researching much more complicated.

Furthermore, i dont like to be pushed into some direction by luck: I have my fixed and optimized research order right now. If i got the fitting scientist with the right skills...lucky me...if not...i would not care to change my priorities cause some research it just MUCH more important than other (e.g. research towards nanotech armor vs. infos about aliens).

nemchenk

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Re: Scientist skill feature suggestion
« Reply #5 on: February 17, 2008, 12:41:25 pm »
But: it would make the single-player game more re-playable...

Offline eleazar

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Re: Scientist skill feature suggestion
« Reply #6 on: February 17, 2008, 06:01:50 pm »
But: it would make the single-player game more re-playable...

If the player is tired of the core game, i doubt the ability to shuffle scientists will draw him back.

nemchenk

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Re: Scientist skill feature suggestion
« Reply #7 on: February 17, 2008, 06:17:41 pm »
You misunderstand, I think :) Each start of the game would present the player with (effectively) a different research tree. One game it may be quicker to research weapons, the next autopsies.

Re-playability has been a major factor for the original UFO games still being popular, 10 years after they were written. I've played through UFO:EU three or four times, and it is how I found this game :P

Offline tobbe

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Re: Scientist skill feature suggestion
« Reply #8 on: February 17, 2008, 07:33:28 pm »
You misunderstand, I think :) Each start of the game would present the player with (effectively) a different research tree. One game it may be quicker to research weapons, the next autopsies.

But for me this factor would simply annoy me endlessly. I dont WANT to research autopsies at the beginning, and even if i got HUGE boni I wouldnt do it, cause weapons and armor are simply MUCH more important. A completed autopsy wont kill any alien better nor will it protect your soldiers. And thats what the game is about.

If I would be lucky to get some scientist with better weapon and armor research rate, it would make the game easier, fine. If not: well, normal difficulty. I dont see how this will add any replay value. If you want to increase the replay value, a customization of the settings (alien frequency, their strength, funding etc.) might be a better idea. Furthermore, an increased randomization of missions and events will do a better job, without making research more complicated...

nemchenk

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Re: Scientist skill feature suggestion
« Reply #9 on: February 17, 2008, 07:37:15 pm »
Fair enough -- I was just suggesting that this would mean the same strategy would not be optimal in every game. For me, part of the replayability is playing using a different strategy. If I can play the same game as before, I think "why bother"? :)

Offline tobbe

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Re: Scientist skill feature suggestion
« Reply #10 on: February 17, 2008, 07:44:07 pm »
Fair enough -- I was just suggesting that this would mean the same strategy would not be optimal in every game. For me, part of the replayability is playing using a different strategy. If I can play the same game as before, I think "why bother"? :)

To make this work, there has to be an actual alternative...so IF autopsies would lead to some equally useful techs, this approach might work...

Offline geever

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Re: Scientist skill feature suggestion
« Reply #11 on: February 17, 2008, 08:28:02 pm »
I was also playing with the idea to give a skill property to the scientists (medics, workers). Not a differenced one (biology,quantum physics....) just a simple number (like xcom3). Then the player could make a "research dream team". :)
But if we have limited number of recruits it can be problematic. (sorry, I don't really know how this limit works now as I don't have so much men.)

If we leave this unchanged the individual recruitment will be meaningless (for these types). If they are all-the-same research droids a more&less button could do the job (as in XCOM1,2).

nemchenk

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Re: Scientist skill feature suggestion
« Reply #12 on: February 17, 2008, 08:52:31 pm »
If we leave this unchanged the individual recruitment will be meaningless (for these types). If they are all-the-same research droids a more&less button could do the job (as in XCOM1,2).
Bingo!

larson

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Re: Scientist skill feature suggestion
« Reply #13 on: February 17, 2008, 10:00:32 pm »
If we leave this unchanged the individual recruitment will be meaningless (for these types). If they are all-the-same research droids a more&less button could do the job (as in XCOM1,2).


Hear, hear!

That's just what I was trying to get to. I was getting a bit ahead of the system in xcom:apocalypse (3) in my thinking, but a system with just a general research skill would be a nice improvement. Even though I would like to make one alien lab, one weapons lab and more...

By the way, I consider apocalypse an excellent game with horrible graphic design. I'd like to see many features from there implemented here too... I liked the way you hired and fired staff all the time, and also the way you pissed those cultists off always :-)

larson

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Re: Scientist skill feature suggestion
« Reply #14 on: February 17, 2008, 10:14:11 pm »
You misunderstand, I think :) Each start of the game would present the player with (effectively) a different research tree. One game it may be quicker to research weapons, the next autopsies.

That wasn't my idea. Same tree always. Average skill of scientists always same. But you do have the possibility to tune your science teams to improve speed. Put those biology hotshots in one team, and you cut up to 20% off research time on aliens. If you cannot be arsed to check their stats, you probably end up with same time as always (if you didn't hire a bunch of losers). And you could also get a hot new science recruit with top skills. Kick one of your old bad ones out and hire the new guy instead. (That would need a punishing cost for hiring new staff compared to just keep paying your current staff, to be interesting).

If you can hire soldiers for skill you should be able to do it with other staff too. Personally, I do not currently care for the skill of soldiers, I think the interface is too cumbersome right now. I hire from the top down and hope I will do fine. With a smooth interface I guess I would change that. My science skill idea need a smooth interface too, or it will be useless...