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Author Topic: Medikits  (Read 75356 times)

Offline Nevasith

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Re: Medikits
« Reply #45 on: June 21, 2008, 01:37:50 am »
in real life there already are bondages that stench bleeding just by pressing it to the wound. How about assigning each soldier such a bondage- so he or she would be able to stop the bleeding on their own if conscious.
Losing conciousness instead of dying is a GREAT idea- it would but an entirely new taste into the game- you must make choice either you rush to save a veteran soldier or kill aliens faster.

Offline BTAxis

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Re: Medikits
« Reply #46 on: June 21, 2008, 02:31:58 am »
You might want to consider not misspelling "bandages" that way.

Offline Nevasith

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Re: Medikits
« Reply #47 on: June 21, 2008, 12:41:40 pm »
sorry English is not my mother language and when the dictionary didnt treat it as a mistake i left it thinking its ok - after checking bondage and bandage in wiktionary i think it was not the best word :D Thanks, ill remember!

Shak

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Re: Medikits
« Reply #48 on: June 22, 2008, 01:17:57 pm »
I also think soldiers dying in combat missions is a little harsh and abrupt. Many of the idea's already given are very good though i fear would mean a considerable amount of work to implement.
Adding a simple equation to deal with whether the downed soldiers survive after the mission should prove easier to do.


After a mission is completed, some equation to give a % chance of downed troops to survive and/or heavily wounded troops to die during the flight back.

Base chance   - calculated using a predefined value + possible modifiers (advanced tech/hospital/medics on staff etc)
Mind stat     - Soldiers stat divided by an arbitery number
Strength Stat -Soldiers stat divided by an arbitery number
Distance to Friendly medic - penalty unless friendly trooper is nearby with medi-pac in hand

The values above can be calculated using different numbers but i've thrown some in to make the following example of how it could work.


Using a percentile scale with the chance of the casualty surving being greater the larger the number is(0.43 = 43% chance of recovery)

Jens Sohal the Rifleman

Base chance = 0.2  (No hospital at base)
Distance to friendly medic = -0.1  (No-one near him at the end of battle)
Mind 28 /250 = 0.112
Str 25 /250 = 0.1

0.2 -0.1 +0.112 +0.1 = 0.3112

so Rfm Jens has a survival chance of 31.12%


To reflect some possible advances and ways to improve your troopers odds at surviving an incapacitating wound, this second example is set at a later stage in the game.


Col Jens Sohal
Base Chance = 0.35 (Has staffed hospital and has researched the  tech "Deadmans Medic"( a Concoction of drugs released slowly into the disabled body)
Friendly Medic = 0.1   (Medic was nearby and performed some medical aid on him during the mission. )
Mind 55 /250 = 0.22
Str 29 /250 = 0.116

0.35 +0.1 +0.22 +0.116 = 0.786

so Col Jens survival chance is 78.6%



I dont know the specifics on coding this, so I've tried to lay it out open to change and interpretation.

Having a trusted trooper dying ingame is a bitter pill to swallow, having some chance no matter how slim would increase the enjoyment of each combat mission greatly.
Knowing a chance exists to recover downed troopers would make the combat missions less prone to reloading.

Offline Kildor

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Re: Medikits
« Reply #49 on: June 22, 2008, 01:30:27 pm »
If aliens kill soldier (it has less than 0 HP), than soldier is dead. without any "berserkers", cloning, miracle-heals, etc.

Shak

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Re: Medikits
« Reply #50 on: June 22, 2008, 01:42:00 pm »
I'm trying to show a distinction between Fatal wounds and Incapacitating wounds. A stronger soldier with good medical backup has a good chance of recovering.

Offline Telok

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Re: Medikits
« Reply #51 on: June 23, 2008, 12:55:31 am »
We currently have no equipment for the 'Extension' slot on soldiers. While I am unsure what that item slot is going to be used for there is a possibility of a life-sign monitor with an attached automatic drug injector. This might make a good option for nano or power armors and could give a soldier a chance to be revived at the end of a mission.

Without thinking about it give a soldier a 50% chance -1% per point of 'excess' damage beyond what was needed to down them. That shouldn't be too difficult to code, just track how much a soldier was over-killed and if they had a auto-med extension on the armor check when the mission success/fail screen comes up. If they survive put them in the hospital with one health point instead of deleting them.

sirg

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Re: Medikits
« Reply #52 on: June 25, 2008, 10:48:53 am »
From what I read in the wiki and in the game's ufopedia, the plasma effects on humans are so severe that any kind of bandage or treatment is almost useless. So I guess it's quite unrealistic to say that you might treat plasma burns with a medikit, or heal :)

Imo, the model should be something like - soldier's armor get's damaged to the point where it's destroyed and any other hit will kill the soldier or make him lose an arm, leg, etc :( ... if the hit isn't lethal.

Offline shevegen

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Re: Medikits
« Reply #53 on: June 30, 2008, 11:18:07 pm »
Actually not all wounds should be fatally dead. There should be an extended "unconscious" state where they can be rescued/revived.

This way the medical equipment in a base could be more important too btw

Sophisanmus

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Re: Medikits
« Reply #54 on: July 01, 2008, 12:04:13 am »
Of course, getting hit by a big ball of plasma-y goodness while running around stark naked would be a good way to get dead fast, and while lower-level armor should diminish damage somewhat, instant death should still be a danger until you start getting into heavy full-body power-armor suits.  There could well be an 'incapacitation' range, with potential for bleeding to death, but also the possibility of getting hit hard enough to skip that stage entirely. 

Of course, I love the idea of limb damage, and possible amputation (in-battle or in-hospital, either works), and, of course, the resultant bionic replacement!  Look out, here comes Billy the Fighting Torso! 
« Last Edit: July 01, 2008, 12:18:01 am by Sophisanmus »

Offline Another Guy

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Re: Medikits
« Reply #55 on: September 08, 2008, 06:38:04 am »
Its been a long way since I played X-COM for the last time, but from what I remember, the damage system with medikit usage included was very nice. I'm aware this game is not a copy of old X-COM, but it can give us some ideas. I'll list how I remmember it (% values are just guesses. As for the rest of it, please correct me if I'm wrong):


-ANY damage would lower all soldier stats for the rest of the battle, in a random (but still proportional to the amount of damage taken) magnitude for each stats. Stat loss was cumulative for each hit taken. Medikits wouldn't help with that stat loss (remember this loss is just until the end of the mission or until the soldier gets fully healed at the hospital).

-ANY damage would have a chance of inflicting fatal wounds of some level, but engine worked in a way that it was not that common to happen and when it did, in most cases was related to a massive loss of HP. Depending on the magnitude of the damage, it would toke up to 3 levels of fatal wounds on a single, massive damage dealing shot.

-Fatal wound system was simple: On the end of each player round (when clicking the end turn button), the soldier on fatal wound takes 1*(lvl of fatal wound) damage until he dies, mission ends or is healled by a medikit.

-Medikit interface did have a screen that displayed the hurt body parts, but it was just for the realistic feel and didn't really matter for any effect of the stat loss or healing system. It just was cool to see a random limb, head or torso in need of treatment, improving sense of reality.

-Medikit had 3 modes: one for improving lost morale one to wake stunned soldiers, and one for healing fatal wounds.

-Fatal wound heal required one use of the medikit per level of fatal wound and restored a small amount of HP (usually no more than 20% of all damage taken once all levels of wounds was patched up). It had no effect if no fatal wound was inflicted or if it was already healed (thus preventing medikit abuse).

-I don't remember any limit on morale raising mode usage.

-"Unstunning" mode simply healed a random small amount of stun damage (and ONLY stun damage) each use. When stun damage<current HP, soldier wakes up

-From what I remmember, every hit would deal, as well as its regular damage on its damage type category, a small amount of stun damage (10%-30%). If stun damage at any moment heppened to be = or > than CURRENT HP (not max) of the soldier, it would faint. The same for aliens. Some weapons like explosive types would be better to stun a target with the same amount of real damage dealt, rather than other weapons. This way there was always a small chance of getting a live alien even without any "stun equipment".

This info is probably not very accurate, but this should help discuss the damage/stat loss/fatal wound system and the medikit usage.

IMHO, this system is very good and balanced, being realistic, simple and preventing medikit abuses at the same time.

Offline Sarin

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Re: Medikits
« Reply #56 on: September 08, 2008, 03:16:39 pm »
I agree that old XCOM way was good. You really can't expect wounds to be fully treated on battlefield, not even with 2084 technology. Just to add, when soldier or alien fainted, his stun damage started to drop slowly, making him wake up after some time.

As for limb loss, seeing bionic replacements would be nice, but it would be more realistic if the soldier was relieved after battle, and could be hired again only after like...1, maybe two years.

One of other things related, armor should get damaged when soldier is hit, decreasing its armor value and forcing you to repair or replace it.

Offline TrashMan

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Re: Medikits
« Reply #57 on: September 08, 2008, 06:05:39 pm »
I must also say that I hate the idea of cyborgs. Not only would I hate it for it to be forced on me, military cyborgs make no sense whatsoever.

No army would give dangerous and expensive equipment to a soldier on a permanent basis.
Power armor is so much better, since it can be taken off after duty. When a soldier returnes, you take his armor, his weapons and his mostly harmelss - he can function as a civilian again. A cyborg can't.

Artificial limbs will never exceed normal human limits, nor will they have integrated weaponry.

Offline Sarin

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Re: Medikits
« Reply #58 on: September 08, 2008, 08:53:20 pm »
Not exactly true, artificial limbs WILL exceed human limits, and very soon. Remember that affair with footless runner just before olympics? He was rejected because they discovered that he actually required much less energy for running. And for those cyborgs...well, who said it has to be permanent? The whole arm replacement, for example, doesn't have to be one piece. There can be some "hub" at elbow that provides interface between nerves and electronics, and required arm replacement can be easily inserted into it. And when you make an arm with a gun, result will be much better response time and accuracy with little training. And when such cyborg is relieved from duty, his arm can be removed just like normal rifle.

Don't take me wrong, I wouldn't like to see cyborgs in UFO:AI just like you, but I'm saying that it is very likely that in the next century we will see some...

Offline TrashMan

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Re: Medikits
« Reply #59 on: September 08, 2008, 10:34:08 pm »
What makes you think that the response time and accuracy would be better? Nerve impulses travel at a set speed, you can't go faster than that.

Also, would military and civilian limbs have the same interface (attach part)? If they do, it presents a problem since any civy can attach the Harmbringer cannon. If it's not then making military cyborgs would cost more for the operation of changing the limb attachchment section and probably other parts. Then removing them again when the war cyborg retires.

A power armor is simply a better all-around solution.