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Messages - tobbe

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You need to capture a scout ufo to start all of these stuff...wait and pray for the fitting mission...good luck!

Feature Requests / Re: Research problem, dead end after "a new twist"
« on: February 18, 2008, 03:39:39 pm »
Most likely the problem is that you lack a scout ufo. only after researching scout ufos the rest becomes available for research. IIRC this will be fixed once the research subject "Ufo Theory" becomes implemented...i think pretty soon...

Feature Requests / Re: Scientist skill feature suggestion
« on: February 18, 2008, 12:10:49 am »
Just look at your current science recruits and choose the ones that makes your path the fastest. Choose the guys with high ratings in "personal equipment (weapons and armor)" and skip the biologists.

Sorry to disagree once more, but i dont think we are playing the same game. I normally play on normal/hard and on that level you need every scientists you are able to get. To SKIP even one would be simply stupid.

But I think you know by now that i disagree and dont like the idea. AFAIK no further discussion needed...

Feature Requests / Re: Scientist skill feature suggestion
« on: February 17, 2008, 07:44:07 pm »
Fair enough -- I was just suggesting that this would mean the same strategy would not be optimal in every game. For me, part of the replayability is playing using a different strategy. If I can play the same game as before, I think "why bother"? :)

To make this work, there has to be an actual IF autopsies would lead to some equally useful techs, this approach might work...

Feature Requests / Re: Scientist skill feature suggestion
« on: February 17, 2008, 07:33:28 pm »
You misunderstand, I think :) Each start of the game would present the player with (effectively) a different research tree. One game it may be quicker to research weapons, the next autopsies.

But for me this factor would simply annoy me endlessly. I dont WANT to research autopsies at the beginning, and even if i got HUGE boni I wouldnt do it, cause weapons and armor are simply MUCH more important. A completed autopsy wont kill any alien better nor will it protect your soldiers. And thats what the game is about.

If I would be lucky to get some scientist with better weapon and armor research rate, it would make the game easier, fine. If not: well, normal difficulty. I dont see how this will add any replay value. If you want to increase the replay value, a customization of the settings (alien frequency, their strength, funding etc.) might be a better idea. Furthermore, an increased randomization of missions and events will do a better job, without making research more complicated...

Discussion / Re: Weapon balancing/finetuning
« on: February 17, 2008, 02:08:20 pm »
Shouldn't the Spread affect "close" weapons more than their max range? The SMG may have a max range of 45 but, in my experience at least, it is very inefficient at anything over 5 hexes, as shots fly everywhere except at the target :P

Right now spread works the same way for all weapons. The greater the distance, the more shots will miss. But right now, the spread of SMGs is lesser than the spread of full-auto assault rifles and MGs, while the MG and the Assault Rifle also need much more TUs to fire the full-auto.

I agree to the point, that SMGs become less efficient on medium distances, but than they are efficient enough on at least 10 squares due to their low TU-cost.

The SMG definitely needs most balancing, but before I start to develop specific ideas how to nerf this Uberweapon, I want to gather some general guidelines, where the SMG and all other weapons could fit in.

Example: If we can agree on limiting the range of all close weapons, while allowing them to be efficient in dam/TU, we might only need to restrict the range of the SMG. If we all agree that Standard weapons should be more efficient against armor, it might be a possible tweak to reduce the damage per shot of the SMG and increase the damage per shot of the MG and so on.

Also, if the aliens fought back via Reaction Fire, the worth of "one shot, one kill" weapons would increase. At the moment, it's quite feasible to shoot something 5 times with the MP, but if that generated 5 reaction attacks it would not be such a great idea.

I can only do some work on the current mechanisms. If the aliens use RF more, some new tweaking might be necessary.

Discussion / Re: Grenade Launcher
« on: February 17, 2008, 12:15:49 pm »
But then, BTAxis, what is the point of it? Its range seems to be *just* longer than that of thrown grenade. Just get rid of it :P

1) This *just* is an important point. Every hex of increased range is quite valuable.
2) The granade launcher is MUCH more efficient than single granades!
3) Single granades still fulfill their purpose in certain situations.

Imo the granade launcher is one of the best balanced weapons in the game. It has a well defined purpose, it stays effecient through a long time period, while not being under- or overpowered...

There are some other weapons, which could be removed right now. The GL is definitely not one of them!

Discussion / Re: Weapon balancing/finetuning
« on: February 17, 2008, 12:10:04 pm »
Ok, I start another try, this time I use an editor.

I would like to balance all the weapons in a way, that each has some purpose for the game and therefore can be used. To do this not only for my own personal pleasure, I would like to have some general guidelines, how the weapons are supposed to be balanced. The wiki has some information about some weapons, but I think these informations are partly outdated and incomplete. So I want to gather opinions how the different weapons are balanced against each other withs pros/cons concerning their

Primary factors: Dam/TU, accuracy, Maximum damage, Range, effect vs. armor

Secondary Factors: Ammo, reload, price

I want to have some general guidelines before actually changing the exact weapon values. So if I change lets say the damage of the Bolter rifle, I know that I would have to change the damage for plasma weapons,too, cause plasma weapons are supposed to deliver superior amounts of damage. I try to give some examples:

Close weapons: Right now the only close weapon I use is the SMG and the Flamethrower. All the other close weapons lack the punch and before I use any of them, I rather run for cover. Imho, close weapons should really offer an alternative to primary weapons. So my general guideline suggestion would be:

Close Weapons:

Dam/TU Good: You might want to use them if standing face to face with an enemy
Maximum damage: Low: You will have to hit more often compared to standard weapons
Accuracy: Well they hit.
Range: really only close combat!
This would mean to greatly decrease the weapon range for some weapons. Lets face it: as long I can use my SMG at 45 Meters (that should approximately 30 hexes, if I got that right), there is no need using an assault rifle as 30 hexes covers most of a standard map. I would reduce the effective range of most starting gear to around 15 meters.

Of course this general guideline would have to be extended to each weapon, but I hope I you get the idea.

Alien Weapons:
We all agree on the point that alien weapons should be superior to human weaponry. But they still have to be balanced , so that they do not obsolete all human weaponry, once they are researched.
Idea: Plasma Weapons

Dam/TU: depends on the actual weapon, generally medium

Maximum damage: High

Range: Low

Accuracy: Low

Effect vs. armor: this might be a point to discuss. The way UFO:AI works right now, Plasma weapons are quite effective vs. human armor, but quite ineffective vs. alien armor. Due to the last point I NEVER use them!

Plasma weapons are able to deliver a serious blow, but they need a considerable amount of time to be fired. If you want accurate shots on considerable range, plasma is the wrong way to go. Want to fry your enemy with one shot on close range: Plasma is your friend.

Last point: Which weapons are meant to be a Replacement? Lets take the assault rifle or the MG. Are these weapons are meant to be replaced be simply more efficient weapons (e.g. bolter, laser rifle or heavy laser). Or do we want them to be useful till the endgame. On thing that really bothers me right now is the sniper rifle. There is no actual replacement for this weapon, but e.g. laser rifles are much more accurate than sniper rifles. I would like to see a sniper mode on laser rifles.

edit: i finally managed to post it!  :o

Discussion / Re: Melee attacks -- roadmap?
« on: February 17, 2008, 11:23:08 am »
As the ufopedia says - when you run out of ammo, a knife is a better option than going vs aliens barehanded... :D I simply prefer realistic approach, knife shouldn`t be a weapon of same value as a gun. One can use it beacuse of necessity or for coolness factor but IMHO it takes away the game "climate" if gutting the aliens becomes viable tactics.

Seriously, how often have you run out of ammo? Most of the time, my whole backpack is empty, cause there is no need for additional ammo. The starting clip and one additional clip is absolutely sufficient (exception Rocket Launcher). If you really wanted to come to the point where ammo is scarce, there would have to be much more aliens on the map.

And even if I ran out of ammo: The first priority is to stay alive. So if I have lets say 10 TUs left and I stand 2 hexes away from an alien, I always run for cover atm, cause there is no chance of killing that alien with my knife right now.

I agree to the fact, that melee weapons should not be as effective as guns, but the need some edge, so they actually might be used.

Discussion / Re: Grenade Launcher
« on: February 17, 2008, 01:21:27 am »
Imho the relativly small range is a major in game balancing factor...this way you have use some tactics...

Feature Requests / Re: Scientist skill feature suggestion
« on: February 17, 2008, 01:15:58 am »

I would like it...

I would not. I agree with eleazer, it would make researching much more complicated.

Furthermore, i dont like to be pushed into some direction by luck: I have my fixed and optimized research order right now. If i got the fitting scientist with the right skills...lucky me...if not...i would not care to change my priorities cause some research it just MUCH more important than other (e.g. research towards nanotech armor vs. infos about aliens).

Discussion / Re: Melee attacks -- roadmap?
« on: February 17, 2008, 01:06:07 am »
I dont think that these firemodes were too deadly, actually most of them have a quite awful dam/TU if i did my maths right...and you have to think about the fact, that you have to go face to face, additionally losing  TUs. The main point why i would not included blunt attacks is, that they would make other melee weapons worthless...why bother changing weapons for close combat...

Yep, I think knife should be rather 6TU/40 dmg or even slower:) There is a reason, why it`s not used very often in  RL....

And why should it be included into the game, if it is useless?


EDIT: ARRGH!! I really have to find out, what error is messing up my posts!

The way I see it, melee weapons definitely need some punch, so it is usefull to have them...perhaps even 60dam/4 TUs....

Discussion / Weapon balancing/finetuning
« on: February 15, 2008, 07:18:30 pm »

some weapons are quite well balanced right now, but i...was interrupted. PHALANX brought me back.  ;D

EDIT:  ARRGH!! Dont know what happened here, post continued:

EDIT2: I DONT BELIVE IT!! I just sat here for half an hour, editing my post and IT IS GONE THE SECOND TIME. Will try again the next days. Just TOO pissed off right now... >:( >:( >:(

Tactics / Re: Your Tactics
« on: February 14, 2008, 11:20:29 am »
Hmm do people find flame throwers usable?

Ok, at a very close range they are cool, but I am not sure, i think the other weapons in general seem to be better.

About the question, I normally try to make small teams, 3-6

4 or 5 people are best i think

If i use too many people, I tend to misplace them more often and they die faster too

I always use the full squad of 8 soldiers. Every guy adds more firepower and there allows to kill the aliens faster. It really depends on the map how i group my soldiers, but most of the time i have 2 squads of 4 soldiers. 4 soldiers have often sufficient firepower, to spot one or two aliens and kill them and retreat back into cover.

Concerning the flamethrower:
You mentioned the most important aspect yourself: the flamethrower is really deadly within its range. Especially in maps with enough cover and many buildings i used it quite often. And it is ,of course, quite useless in open maps, where you need superior range (e.g. druglord-map)
But lately i started to replace the flamethrower with the SMG (right now THE best weapon)...the SMG has superiror range, and is also able to kill an alien with a full-auto salvo...but i expect that the SMG will be rebalanced at some point.

Once the features for equipping your squad just before the mission, after a mission briefing is implemented, you will be able the choose your weaponry better suited for the.

Meanwhile, i recommend researching Laser pistols. They are extremly accurate, deal acceptable damage and have a sufficient range. If I dont know the map, all my short ranged units (granade laucher, SMG, Flamethrower) start with a laser pistol in their hands and an empty holster. This way they can return fire and once they come to close range, they just put away the laser pistols and go for the kill...

Discussion / Re: New soldier stat increase system
« on: February 13, 2008, 10:04:34 pm »
@ufogio: You probably weren't using the latest trunk, just the latest release. The latest release uses the old increase system, which is based purely on kills.

I just downloaded the 2.3 dev version trunk 14220. Is the new system implemented in this version? If not, is there any way to implement it in the dev version?

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