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Messages - Merlin

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Discussion / Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« on: June 05, 2013, 04:34:56 am »
No!! Not a matter of semantics. An 8TU snapshot as reaction fire costs 8TU, not 16, no matter how you turn it. If you have 40TU, spend 32 walking and shooting so you have eight left, you can activate RF and the 8TU shot will then happen on the alien turn (if conditions are met). 8, not 16!

As it is, reaction fire sure isn't suitable for sniper overwatch or similar as you've noted but it still has it's uses. I use it extensively.
Yes. It is a matter of semantics. I get that it doesn't take 16 TUs to go into RF mode, thanks to Shipit explaining it to me. It only costs/takes/save/needs/youcan'tusetheseTUsifyouwanttodothis 8 TUs. But regardless of the number it still costs/takes/save/needs/youcan'tusetheseTUsifyouwanttodothis. You're saying it doesn't take 8 points to use because they are still there, I'm saying it does techincally take 8 points(because again Ship explained it with the pic and I get it now), because while I don't lose those 8 points, I still can't use those 8 points in my turn if I want to use RF.

The points are lost but I can't use them if I want to RF. So it has a cost, a refundable cost if you want to do something using those points instead of using RF, but a cost none the less. And again, I used the Sniper example for hyperbole. Lemme try this again. I use 8 RF on a shotgun to watch the door. The alien walks in a way to not let me see it for 8 TUs and shoots my guy in the side killing him. A sniper watches an area, and never shoots anything because the TUs are too high for him to cover. A shotgunner has to get lucky that the alien is brain dead.

So, now we've learned that you didn't understand how reaction fire works when you became frustrated with it. And we've gone through quite a lot to explain to you how it does work. And you're not even going to try it out?!

I still don't see how it works. No wait, I see how it works mechanically, not practice. The only time RF will work is if the alien is in vision enough. And there's very few times where you can grantee that the alien will spend the TUs to be allowed to get shot. Here lemme see...

RF is much more than just a shoot now or later choice. If you can shoot at an alien safely and move into a safe position during your turn, you should almost always do it. Reaction Fire is for all the other times when you can't quite kill an alien and need an alternative solution.

Consider a situation where you have an alien at mid-range spotted by two soldiers with laser rifles. You estimate that a burst shot has a good chance of hitting with one round at this range and two hits are enough to bring down this alien. However, one of your soldiers already used many of his TUs. If he fires a burst shot at the alien, he won't have enough TUs to move into a safe position, so any other alien can walk into the open area and fire at him.

Instead of taking the chance and hoping to get lucky, you can move your soldiers behind a nearby building and put one crouched in front of the other. Now they only have enough for a snap shot, but at this range they're almost certain to hit. The alien is almost certainly going to come around the corner and fire at one of your soldiers, so with their 8 TU snap shot they'll get their shots off first. Now you've traded one likely kill for an even more likely kill, and added on the bonus that your soldiers will be in a safer position.

Ah ha. Depending on how the alien moves, your two soldiers won't get a shot off. He can spend enough to get killed, move enough so only one can fire, or moves the side of the second guy(the standing one) with TUs to spend. Aliens have weird movement patterns and it makes little sense covering alien UFO doors in places as they can walk to your side and kill you that way. I said the AI is kinda dim yes, but this is an XCOM style game. The AI always has weird movement patterns.

Which brings me back to, why take a chance on RF when Smoke saves my bacon more often. The reason I wanted RF explained to me was to see if I was doing it wrong, to see if I can shoot them when I see them. I was wrong in both. I wanted RF to be 'prepare to shoot' rather than 'prepare to react to shoot'. So thanks for putting up with me and thanks for explaining how it works, even if the answer wasn't what I was expecting.

Discussion / Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« on: June 04, 2013, 08:28:49 pm »
No, you're misunderstanding this. RF is simply enabled or disabled, and doing so doesn't use any TUs. When you select a RF firemode, you're not spending those TUs, but telling the game which firemode to use. The firemode TUs are reserved this turn, which prevents you from accidentally spending them doing other actions, but the TUs are only spent during the enemy's turn when reaction fire is taken.

The threshold -- the amount of TUs an alien must spend in view of your soldier before that soldier will take reaction fire -- is equivalent only to the cost of the reaction firemode. So, if you have set reaction fire to a snap shot that costs 8 TU, the threshold is 8, not 16.

With this in mind, go back and look at the image I attached earlier in the thread. It should make more sense now.

Semantics. Sure I didn't spend the TUs during my turn but unless I turn off RF, I can't use those either. Hence the word cost. It Costs the soldier that much TUs to use RF rather than say move, change gear, heal, etc.


Now see that explains it far better.

perhaps you can now see why some like to have those smg's and shotguns combined with tu's spared for rf?
Only if it kills something which in my practice of firing at the alien at close range on my turn, I end up needing another shot. So hoping for the Alien to not kill me on their turn so I can shoot back isn't viable to me.

Reaction fire is still clunky to use and hopefully more to the point, this shows just how confusing it is to some people. Sorry I'll take my chances for a kill on my own turn thank you. Even if the aliens get enough TUs to do everything and still RF.

Discussion / Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« on: June 04, 2013, 09:18:51 am »
How do you spend eight TUs to "prepare" for RF? It´s simply enabling it and your soldier will use RF if he gets a chance, as often as he has enough TUs and ammo left to fire. So, if you enable RF while your soldier has eight TUs left, he is able to shot once (if the correct firemode is set in the firemode menu), if he has 16 TUs left he can shoot twice during the aliens turn.

Okay here's how i try to set up RF. I select a soldier and click to 'prepare' RF mode which takes 8 TUs. Then I have to select a 'Fire' mode for my weapon. So I select the Gun icon right next to the Reaction Fire Icon. A menu comes up asking what fire mode would I like to save for. I select Snap Shot, which costs 8 TUs. 8 + 8 = 16. Took me 8 TUs to go into RF mode, and another 8 for the lowest firing mode. 16 TUs to snap shot during the enemy turn. Alien has to dance for 16 TUs before my men shoot.

Assuming that reaction fire is not supposed to be the primary means of killing aliens, but an emergency measure to try to save your poorly placed soldiers, I see nothing wrong with the reaction fire as long as it works according to this spec.
If X-COM reaction fire didn't work like that, then I think UFO:AI reaction fire is better.

Smoke does the same thing and is far less random/guess work/praying.

Discussion / Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« on: June 04, 2013, 02:59:36 am »

8 TUs to prepare + 8 to snap shot = 16 TUs. Aliens must pass a 'threshold' before being shot. I used 16 TUs so they must use 16 TUs before I shoot.

I'm against this method because it inherently preferences defensive over offensive tactics. If I can be sure that my unit on RF will fire on an enemy the moment it appears, then it is always in my interest to encounter the enemy during the enemy's turn. The enemy will be lower on TU because they will have moved into view and they will probably be closer because they've had to move into my carefully limited field of view. This defensive advantage would be exacerbated by our poor alien AI, which can't really play defensively in this way, doesn't understand indirect fire and loves to rush the closest target.

It would be inherently unbalanced in multiplayer, too.

So rather than making it work that way for fear of making game play too defensive, you make players play defensive anyway because they can't rely on Reaction Fire? Also, don't care for balance in multiplayer myself so can't say how it would affect it.

You must keep in mind that a firemode takes into account a series of actions, not just the firing of the weapon as soon as something is spotted. It also entails the time it takes to raise the weapon and sight in the target. If a soldier could just as easily and quickly do this with a sniper rifle as they could with an assault rifle, all soldiers would take them in real life. But scopes reduce situational awareness (hence the range of low-magnification scopes typically used on assault rifles), and sniper rifles are bigger, heavier and take more time to aim unless a sniper has already dialed into the keyhole (something which is not really appropriate for the scale or pace of our battlefields).

Snipers are not reaction fire specialists and shouldn't really be used in that capacity (except on very long range maps from defensive positions). Probably the biggest misconception is that Reaction Fire is Overwatch -- but in UFO:AI we don't yet have any mechanism to properly handle overwatch, in which a soldier prepares himself to fire rapidly on a specific target area. I'd like to see something like this implemented some day, with the ability to spend TUs to increase fire rate and/or accuracy in a small target area in exchange for losing some wider field of view. But it's not here yet.

I used snipers as an example since they have some of the largest pools of TUs needed to reaction fire. An alien would need to sit there dancing before they fired. Worst case alien come around the corner and shoots him from across an open field killing him before the sniper goes "oh look ET, better shoot him". Also, given that aliens are invading with plasma weapons, anti matter engines and a plan to conquer the human race, I thought we gave up on 'realism' when it came to the specific actions a soldier must do to shoot.

Whoa, whoa, whoa! I haven't played the new one, but the old one was definitely not that simple, especially early on (hence the need for reactions training). The original had a reaction fire stat and, before it was adequately trained, your soldiers almost never took their shots first. The high reaction fire stat of the aliens was also the source of the enter-room-die-immediately frustration that was endemic to clearing UFOs.

Reaction Fire is not properly communicated through the UI, which is a real problem I don't want to pretend doesn't exist. But the system is actually not that complicated when you figure it out, and it does reinforce something that I think is a vital part of the 2.5 weapons balance revamp: the most important tactics are squad-based, not soldier-based. You need to use your soldiers in supportive roles to cover for each other's weaknesses. No matter how good a soldier you have, they will be defenseless in some situations. This is a significant improvement over 2.4, where you basically equipped your guys with the best weapons you could and sent them into a shootout with the aliens. It's often the people who were most used to this old style of play who have had the hardest time adjusting to the new style. But in spite of the title of this thread (which will, apparently, never die), I am convinced that the ground combat in 2.5 is more tactically interesting, more intellectually challenging and, therefore, more fun, than 2.4.

My soldiers from the first XCOM game tended to shoot. They don't here. Maybe it was the bonkers pathfinding that made them dance for the soldier to shoot. Or maybe it's because I grouped soldiers that started with high reaction as cover soldiers. Point is, it worked more for me in that game than it does here. Also Aliens still do the enter-room-die-immediately in this game, more so because I've seen Hoverbots move, shoot 3 times, and still reaction fire.

To me there is no reason to rely on something that will not work most the time. Why sit there and pray the enemy will give you enough time to shoot when you can take cover or throw a grenade or do something that doesn't equal into putting your head between your legs and kissing your hide good by. No reason to use half the weapons, no reason to try to be defensive other than smokes, and when hoverbots show up en-mass say good bye to your soldiers. 2.5 combat is more luck, more confusing, and outright far more frustrating. God help the players if you guys ever put in Chryssalid like enemies. But I doubt nor would want the game changed just for me. Just putting forth my problems and concerns.

Also, doesn't the forum let those that control it change the name of topics?

Discussion / Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« on: June 03, 2013, 09:05:15 pm »
Ahh, ok. You don't realize how reaction fire works. If your build is after May 7, you should have an entry in the ufopaedia, under Basic Concepts (Ground Combat), which explains reaction fire. It is not a free shot on the enemy as soon as they appear. It's a first-to-the-draw race using TUs. Here's the text we've added to the game that explains it.

This is why, in the picture example I provided, the difference between an 8 TU and a 12 TU reaction firemode matters so much. Ideally, we'll some day have some in-battle feedback on RF that makes it clearer what is happening. But for now this is all we've got.

You know, after I walked away the word "Threshold" stayed with me and I think I figured that out after walking away. But if that's the case, it still makes no sense and is in my mind rather silly compared to the other two games that I can compare it to, X-Coms and the remake XCOM(yeah this is gonna get confusing).

It takes 16 TUs to reaction fire with snap shot. That means an alien can walk, shoot, and leave before he spends 16 TUs if he's moving around a corner. Heck this explains why my snipers never react. An Alien would have to be dancing in front of them the entire turn before the sniper figures out "Hey I should shoot this guy".

I also find it silly because the two XCOM games(The first and the remake) just had you set it up and they would fire on the first guy that walked into sight. When I go on reaction fire I want to spend my unit's turn to overwatch and shoot the guy that turns the corner. But the system here wants me to worry about "okay how long will the Alien be in my line of sight before I die"? No, to me that's a bad idea! I'm giving up my turn to shoot Aliens during their turn! I shouldn't have to worry about how many TUs they decide to burn.

How are you loading your soldiers? If you find yourself short of TU's have you tried going light to get those bonus time units? I usually have my "assault team" without armor and using light weapons, like shotguns, lasers or rifles, wielding forty-plus TU's they basically sprint from cover to cover spotting enemies for snipers and grenadiers to kill and when they don't have a shot I'll use smoke and shoot them close up in the back :) At the end of my turn I arrange them defensively for reaction fire. Reaction fire mechanics are now really simple actually, actions that take less TU's happen first and a target needs to be seen for as many TU's as a reaction shot needs. which is where those shotguns are handy.

You didn't comment on my question of purging ufo's or small buildings, what's your strategy for that if you don't carry any short range weapons?

For gear I tend to have; Primary, Armor, 2 Reloads, Medikit. From there it's extras like grenades or side weapons. I never try to go without armor though at where I am in the game, might as well. Everything one shots my guys it seems. I've had soldiers that could only carry their explosive weapon and armor, that's it. Reaction Fire to me is still fiddly. "Mr. Alien could you stand right there for a minute while I get my sights right to shoot you?" Sure it might be more real, soldier taking time to actually aim, but when I go on reaction fire I want to oh, React, when I see an alien the moment they step in view.

As for Purging UFOs and Small Buildings, combo of grenades and time. Aliens are still stupid and are prone to leaving their hidey holes after enough time. If they don't well; Flash bang around the corner, Grenades and Incendiary at spots where I think the aliens are and smoke right on top my guys. Because Aliens can just walk through past my guy and shoot him in the back if I try to reaction fire.

@Merlin: Which is your build's date? I have this feeling you are using an old one for some reason.

May 25th 2013. I'm not playing a very old one.

Discussion / Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« on: June 03, 2013, 09:47:29 am »
Regarding shotguns (I include the plasma blaster in this category). It sounds to me like you haven't quite mastered reaction fire and, for that reason, have focused your tactics on long-range encounters, using assault rifles when you have to close range. This is not a bad strategy and maintaining range is often smart when its possible. But on quite a few maps this is just not possible, and shotguns have a few advantages over assault rifles in close quarters match-ups. The attached image describes a situation where a shotgun is much better. Note: If you're taking 2-3 shots to down an alien with a shotgun, you must be using flechettes and only hitting with a few flechettes each shot. I'd recommend saboted slugs over flechette shells for killing power.

I haven't 'mastered' reaction fire because reaction fire is as fiddly as a fiddler on a roof of a fiddling school. Made of Fiddles. The image makes no sense to me. Why does it matter that the alien ended up using just 2 more TUs to move when, as long as he moves into the soldier's field of vision and range, he should be fired on? See this is why I don't reaction fire or when I do, it's "okay everyone take 2 steps. That's all the TUs we can spare because everyone is on reaction fire and it takes all TUs to do it. Alien's turn." Really Reaction fire has been a problem for me since I first started on this game. Also I just use whatever the shotguns I start with come with which tends to be saboted slugs. 2-3 Shots for the Tamen, Hoverbots is a deathwish and anything else it's throw the thing away.

Regarding grenade launchers. I really don't know what to say on this but to respectfully disagree. These guys are the biggest killers for me at every stage of the game. Nothing can match their ability to kill at short, medium and medium-long range. Sure, I have to minimize extra equipment for low-strength rookies, but it's a small trade-off to make. The reason I only take two (8 man team) or 4 (12 man team) is because they are purely offensive.

Maybe with plasma grenades they can kill but the normal shot doesn't seem to do much damage at all. Note that when I use it, I try to use it to yes shoot around corners and walls to get to targets. And unless you hit the target, the damage seems quite pathetic. If you and others can make it work, that's great for you guys. I don't see how but hey, this is a game that can be played a number of ways.

On a separate note: players have different styles and tactical preferences, and this is not a bad thing. I just wish people wouldn't jump to the conclusion that something is "useless" just because it doesn't fit their profile. I, for instance, made heavy use of a fast sniper, who racked up the highest kill count while being protected by smoke. But ShipIt hardly used snipers. Some people consider assault specialists the primary offensive units -- but for me they were more defensive generalists, exposing themselves in dangerous forward positions to protect other soldiers and using their RF to soften distant aliens during their turn. I see this difference as part of the benefit of having diverse weaponry.

I understand that it's personal style and preferences. There's no way to make a game like this where everyone does the same thing, and if they do you're doing it wrong. I just see no reason to use the half the weapons in the game as they put my soldiers at more risk then I want them to be in. Close is a death wish, Heavy will be gone/is gone, and Explosive is only useful for grenades on my Riflemen. That's how I see the game thanks to fiddly reaction fire from my side, insane TUs from the enemy, and changes that I see weaken a play style I had grown to like from 2.4. 

Again I'm not saying the game is bad, and understand that it's still WIP. But this version seems to take everything I learned and got into a habit of doing from 2.4, and flipped it around. I don't know what's what anymore.

Discussion / Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« on: June 01, 2013, 03:58:50 am »
At shorter range smg's are way better, just sayin'. Faster reaction shots and they also weigh less which can make a big difference. Don't get me wrong I love to use those ar's myself but they're not all there is. In some maps you don't have the range to your advantage and in those spots flamers take out even the heaviest targets when ordinary pre alien incursion tech only-bullets basically just bounce off.
Doesn't matter when the hoverbots have enough TUs to move in shoot you three times for death. I like keeping my guys alive so I don't like getting close to aliens unless I know I can kill them on MY turn. Because reaction shots are still wonky. Put my guy on burst fire, he shoots (OMG) but fires one bullet before the alien turns and shoots him dead. When on burst fire. To me it's very unreliable so I use range and speed.

idk about the blasters, still sounds like rng to me, I never really liked to use those those myself anyway.
Biggest problem is that a close range weapon can be fired at distance with average results.

Even though the gl has lost it's 3 round burst mode I still use it a lot, it has great range, and right in early game you can cut off aliens with incendiary rounds, and ofc you can lay indirect fire which is always nice. Carry a sniper rifle and anything else, like, ammo for the rifle and you're already over the lightest encumbrance threshold, capable of one aimed shot per round, with a gl you can shoot twice or shoot and move. Having said all this, I guess it comes down to your personal preference, I use a lot of assault rifles and snipers myself too though.
It's insanely heavy limiting ammo and support items possibly even armor. Sure my sniper can only walk a bit and shoot but he has the advantage of being far away or putting down his target. It is preference but to me it's not just preference it's what I feel like I HAVE to use.

So far I've heard only rumors, nothing direct from Cdr. Cavarre, about advancing our shotgunners' damage output. As for advanced launcher grenades, antimatter rockets and some other things... look, I'm trying really hard not to post spoilers ;)
Which falls back into the research problems I'm having in the fact of no research. I just got armor, in June. JUNE! At this rate I'll have to raid an alien base with tier 2 armor and plasma weapons.

afaik nothing actually uses the heavy skill anymore.
Odd mine still lists the skill used on the Flamer and Machine Gun.

Again I'm not saying it's bad, just I liked 2.4 more at this rate.

Discussion / Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« on: May 31, 2013, 09:10:06 pm »
Again I like the fact that I'm getting replies to concerns I have.

smg's are extremely effective in early game, that is, against targets that don't have armour. Don't you use flamethrowers? Those are deadly against, well, anything.
Rocket launcher certainly is cumbersome to use. As Phalanx commanders we can only hope that our scientists could improve their performance against heavy late game enemies.

Know what else is effective early? Assault rifles just with better range. And no I don't use flamers. It's probably going to be changed to "Close" but currently it's heavy in my version, I think. Maybe. Anyway, range is the game since aliens rarely get close and when they do they tend to kill the person they got near. And unless the lab boys figure out how to make anti-matter rockets for ground troops I'm probably not going to use it.

This is why you shouldn't compare weapons as like-for-like (ie - "assault weapons are better than close weapons"), but should think of them as serving different purposes. Shotguns (and plasma blaster) are extremely powerful 1-shot, short-range weapons to be used in tight quarters and especially for reaction fire when you expect aliens to walk around a close corner. These guys can keep all your other guys safe in close quarters situations when you need a single, low-TU shot to kill the alien before it can get a shot off. Grenade launchers no longer have burst, but they do have much longer range than they used to, and way more range than a thrown grenade. That makes them all the more useful for indirect fire, bouncing around corners, shooting through windows and bursting a round off a wall next to an alien otherwise unreachable. This is a role no other weapon can perform well beyond a few grids. RPG accuracy was reduced (it used to be the most accurate weapon in the game, more than sniper rifles), but recently their power and splash radius has been increased quite a bit to compensate.

Blaster is short range. Explain why the aliens have great aim with them across the map. Moving on from that, Shotguns need 2-3 shots at close range to down an alien. Grenade launchers were great at indirect fire in 2.4 and still are in 2.5 if they could kill anything. Also, lower RPG accuracy but larger splash radius? That could blow up in a commander's face(HA).

My biggest problem is that I don't see any reason to use weapons besides Assault and Sniper. 2.4 I ran about 3 Assaults, 2 Snipers, and the others tended to shift around depending on the map. I liked using a Rocket to take out the biggest problem I saw on the field. Now it's all Assault and Snipers. Maybe it's just my line of thinking or playing, but Close is too risky and Explosive too much work. Work meaning not being able to kill, hit, or carry anything.

Also about the weapons, which skill do they use? When looking at the Shotgun it says Close, but when looking in the UFOpedia, the 'requirements' say heavy. And a few weapons seem to keep this odd dual skill thing.

Discussion / Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« on: May 31, 2013, 09:53:53 am »
I love the fact that I'm getting actual replies about my concerns. This is awesome.

Heavy is deprecated and will be removed before 2.5 is finished. Close: SMGs/shotguns before you face armour, then just the riot shotgun with saboted slugs until you can research plasma blaster, which is really deadly. Explosives: grenade launchers and maybe Rocket Launcher depending on your style and the map. You should think of them as roles, not merely categories of weapons. Each has its particular strengths and your team should be assembled with that in mind. My personal approach is to use assault as my generalists, then bring along the other skill sets to cater to specific situations. The specialists can throw grenades (smoke, frag, flashbangs) to support other troops when they're not in an ideal position to use their primary.
So the Heavy machine gun which didn't see any nerfs will be removed. Great. Anyway!

Close - SMGs/Shotguns? I don't use the SMGs, like ever. I rarely use side arms unless I have to. And Shotguns took a heavy nerf with only snapshot as their firing mode and what seems to be lower range.

Explosives - again, great weapons hit with nerfs. The grenades seem weaker and with burst fire out it's hard to kill aliens with just 1 shot. Rockets seem to have taken a nerf to the aim and more TUs to shoot. Why take them when a rifleman can lob 2 grenades and still move?

Oh I thought you were talking about a gap further in. Yes, there's a bit of a lull early on, especially for experienced players who push hard on research right away. There's actually a "beginner's month" built into campaigns at normal difficulty and lower, so try hard difficulty to get right into the action quicker.

That might explain some things. Main base had 3 labs(now 4) so I blew through research.

IIRC, aliens have a tendency to use the snap shot and burst modes of the plasma blaster, which are more accurate than the primary ball mode. But I'd still contend it's a case of distorted perception. Our human brains tend to exaggerate the unexpected in our heads. If a shot has a 10% chance to hit, I won't take it because it seems almost worthless. But if I face 5 rounds from a 10% plasma blaster shot each alien turn, I'm likely to get hit a few times each mission. Each time it feels like a long shot, but that's just because my brain discards all the times it didn't hit.

I have a tendecy that the aliens seem to have sniper like aim with a close range weapon. Why are they even allowed to use that from distance? Haven't used it much(No Close based soldiers remember?), but I believe the shotgun won't even let you shoot past range X. Why does the Blaster get a pass? More to the point, I can't say anything about their percentages because I never SEE theirs. I see mine.

That'd be crazy. Explosives guys with grenade launchers almost always rack up the most kills. And I'd hate to take on some maps, like Shelter or even Oriental, without a close specialist or two.

But there's no weapons that suit them well. I only have a close specialist or two for stunning. Otherwise on the bench. I also doubt that there's weapon upgrades beyond plasma nades for the starting human weapons. One reason I wanted to try to mod this was just for that reason.

Discussion / Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« on: May 30, 2013, 09:42:03 pm »
1. Try other weapons then.

2. You have nothing to research? What have you got researched already? Easier campaign difficulties progress more slowly, so if you're playing on Easy or Very Easy you're more likely to encounter dead time.

This is UFO:AI's equivalent of "The RNG hates me".

4. There are lots more maps you'll encounter in 2.5-dev. Many of them aren't very good, but it was decided that variety is more important, since players may face around 100 missions in a campaign.

Are you sure? You get tons of soldiers in 2.5. You should be able to sustain pretty heavy losses and still recruit. I lost about one soldier per mission throughout my game and had plenty of extra recruits available at all times.

1) What can my soldiers use unless they are Riflemen or snipers? Close or Heavy, why are you here? Get out.

2) Before I was complaining how fast it was to get plamsa weapons and alien tech. But for a good month my guys were basically doing nothing.  Plasma weapons hadn't shown up, I had researched the two aliens that were attacking, and only UFO scouts and fighters were running around. So yeah I had nothing to do on Normal for about half way into April to near the end of May.

3) Yeah I know it's RNG hates me. But something is just off when an Alien can regularly hit my guys with a Plasma Blaster, an apparently Close range weapon.

4) This is a current complaint. I'm sure as time goes on the maps will become better. But it's either wait for that, take up modding, or work through the problem. Also base missions hurt since the cameras don't seem to be functional yet.

5) I'm losing about 1-3 soldiers per mission now. Maybe when I get better armor that number will decrease. But Blasters and Hoverbots are chewing through my men. And I only get more troops at the end of a month and if the country likes me. It's actually possible to run out of men in this game.

There are improvements to be found in tech tree for some of the conventional weapons

Untill recently aliens were basically idiots waiting to be slaughtered, in 2.4 it was a rare event to lose a soldier and some of the maps were built with this in mind... Get into mapping if you want this fixed :)

I'm doubting the weapon upgrades. Sure there's probably plasma grenades for the launcher but nothing for the others. I'm this close to firing all soldiers that don't have good assault or sniper stats.

Again the maps can be fixed with time. People have probably bought up the fact about the maps before so I'm late to the party. I'm just stating how I feel.

Discussion / Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« on: May 30, 2013, 07:50:32 am »
More I play the more I'm beginning to change my mind about 2.5

1) Weapon nerfs/changes - Shotgun, Grenade Launcher, and Bazooka all seem to have been weakened.

2) Research is slower - The rate you go up the tech tree seems to be much slower. I've had about 2 weeks go by with my guys sitting at their stations playing bejeweled since they have nothing to do.

3) Aliens are tougher - this one is a debatable complaint. I'm seeing the aliens do insane shots which happens far more often that I think it's the normal thing for them, even if this is an 'XCOM' like game. Alien Blasters and Hoverbots are probably the worse with insane range and the Bots having a huge pool of TU.

4) Maps favoring the Aliens - Now I know I only saw a small pool of the maps in 2.4, but they seemed rather even with a few being a pain. The Mansion and the Supermarket are two. But the maps here seem to favor the aliens a lot, starting you off with poor cover or putting the aliens in places that you have no way of getting to for the first couple turns while they shoot you. That and shot down aliens UFOs having about the same number as UFOs that land seems unfair.

I'm save scumming far more in this game than I did in the ACTUAL XCOMs. Mainly due to the fact that I have a limit to the soldiers I can throw at them.

Tactics / Large Maps, what do?
« on: May 28, 2013, 06:08:21 am »
Serveral times the map loads, and I find it's big or high map. I also find that my guys are forced to play catch up to the aliens as they freely roam and murder civs. 'Small Town' was one of the worst ones, forcing my troops up 2 staircases while under fire and the scream of townsfolk easy heard.

So what do you do for the maps that basically favor the aliens?

Discussion / Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« on: May 27, 2013, 09:19:38 pm »
Actually I'm in June, with a terror mission looming. As for the map that was wonky, it was titled like "Harbor". It had these rasied platforms on stilts with a staircase going up to them. I saw some workers run down them in a panic, but could not raise my veiw to see the actual platform. So if an alien gets up there, I can't do anything about it.

So far I like 2.5. It's a bit more kick you in the teeth but you can tell there's issues with it. Maps, wounds, and RF still a bit wonky. I just posted thoughts in this topic as it's like the main discussion topic for it, even if the title is wrong.

Discussion / Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« on: May 27, 2013, 08:05:31 am »
Back in 2.4 the Laser weapons research felt like wasting time. The player could get the more powerful Plasma weapons within the same time frame. So we delayed the appearance of the handheld Lasers, which now outperform the Plasma weapons in many ways. But you are on your own to find out how to get them. Oc I can tell it´s not about catching a Hovernet.

You play the nightly build of 2.5-dev? Whats the build date of your version (see main menu screen)? What difficulty level?

I just feel odd as I have like nothing to research right now. Heck right now it's climb up the UFO parts tech tree.

As for the game, May 25 is the date on the main menu. Running on normal, and I just bumped into a terror mission. Found a new alien(Or the green one from 2.4 in a new skin) and plasma rifles. But then I found out the map was wonky and quit. Also, while I don't feel the aliens are any tougher(hoverbots are op), I do feel that the maps are way more stacked against me than the older maps. That or I just memorized everything about them.

Discussion / Re: 2.5 sucks completely
« on: May 27, 2013, 07:24:25 am »
About Medikits there is a thread already where most of your questions should be answered already.

About Laser Rifles, well, its part of the game for you to find out whats going on.

What's going on is that I'm in April, hoverbots hurt, and no upgrades to my ground troops besides keriblades and plasma pistols. If I have to actively catch one of those hoverbots I'm gonna be in for some pain.

EDIT: Oh and this may have been mentioned but something is wrong with the harbor map. I can't go about height 4 or 3. Makes getting into those cranes or buildings impossible.

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