Messages

1

Offtopic / Re: I'm not really happy with this forum

« on: January 05, 2011, 04:57:42 am »

At first my account has been deleted (that was like a half year ago). I assume, because i was not very active (i had 33 posts at that time). That was very frustrating, because i am not mainly here to post something, but to see what is new on the board and to observe the progress of the project. So deleting an account because someone isnt very active is just not very clever - in my mind. Then i registered again.

I don't think this was the reason for your account deletion. I was inactive for FOUR YEARS, with a lesser post count. Everything was the same as I left it. So either I was very lucky, or some other factor was responsible. Server issues seem the most plausible.

Secondly, I don't see how forum administration is reflective of the game development. Different people are responsible for them. Sure it doesn't look professional, but its all volunteer work anyway. Not to mention shit does happen, and forums get more then their of it.

2

Design / Re: SPOILERS - Storyline proposal

« on: December 23, 2010, 06:05:38 am »

bout the antenna... the problem is that antennas are a "classical" device. The best way to work on nanoscale would involve quantum transitions and the control of molecular structures. Currently these are archieved at very low temperatures and for different purposes (for now just studying some base properties, such as the energy level structure, anisotropy, magnetism). I stil have to prepare a basic-level exam on this topic from scratch, so i cannot exactly tell you how things work but have a look at the possibilities exposed in some slides without any technobabble http://cm.physics.tamu.edu/seminars/S_Bader_09_09_04.pdf (from Pag 23 it's exalting, although since are slidesthey're not much clear... google more if you are curious). Of course this wouldn't work for my hipotetic technobabble, i pointed it just for curiosity (before somebody start flaming thinking i am trying to connect them)

You have no idea what you're talking about. Antenna are not some 'classical' device, they are the only method of transmitting EM at those frequencies. Nanoscale means jack shit. You require the length to fit the wave. Quantum transitions only possible at absolute zero, which is NEVER going to occur in a living person. NEVER. Again, you have no idea what you're talking about. Just accept that the idea doesn't work and move on.

I will say again, you require half the wave length for transmission. There's a way of cheating to get a quarter wavelength, but requires perfectly conducting ground. Magnetic Loop antenna can be at best 1/10th of the wavelength, but you still require antenna in the order of kilometers. So as I said its impossible to transmit ULF, for the same reason as the US and RUSSIA had great difficulty transmitting the higher frequency SLF to their subs.

3

Design / Re: SPOILERS - Storyline proposal

« on: December 22, 2010, 11:59:02 am »

By the way, have you ever wondered why all our current, modern wireless communication systems operate within the High and Very High frequency range (i.e. "microwaves"), and why we continuously struggle to get even higher? Just a thought...

High frequences are used due to smaller antenna lengths. 3.6GHz spectra allows for tranmission antenna's of ~4cm. You can't go too low either, as to transmit 30Hz (the upper band of ULF) you require a 5000km antenna, hence my remark that ELF communications are physically impossible for something nanoscaled.

And obviously as your frequency goes up, at some point the millimeter waves end up being IR

4

Coding / Re: [SUGGESTION] New accuracy system

« on: December 21, 2010, 05:01:17 am »

To bump this thread, and rehash this stuff again.

Duke: Having not fired an automatic weapon myself, are you confirming there that the grouping showed no gradual trend upwards. I was expecting with a gun firing in a burst, that the recoil of each shot would raise the barrel a fraction each time?

What i think the OP was hinting at:

For any shot, call the a function to calculate the first shot based on soldier's skill, firing mode and the weapon's general accuracy. So in theory, whether you fired a snap shot, burst shot or full auto; the chance of hitting on the first round is equal. But an aimed shot would have a bonus modifier to improve accuracy.
Subsequent shots would then call another recursive function or loop, where by the placement of each additional shot is calculated by moving the original path up a random amount and to the side a random amount. The random amounts would again be scaled by the weapon's accuracy and user's skill. The result would be a gradual zig zag pattern going upwards. On that note, any accuracy reported to the user should always be the first shot. I believe a method like this was used counterstrike for gun accuracy.


EDIT: Having looked into the combat.c code, I noticed that the two spread values included for each weapon correspond to the yaw & pitch deviation calculations. It could be possible to modify that method, and recurse/loop the subsequent shots off the previous shots yaw & pitch. Not 100% confident how it affects other methods in that code. Furthermore, it would require some weapon rebalancing and potentially change the combat tactics (multiple shots no longer as effective at long range).

5

Design / Re: SPOILERS - Storyline proposal

« on: December 21, 2010, 03:54:22 am »

-Pseudo-techno babble? First of all, it's not pseudo-techno but in part is reality. And when the alternative explaination is "psionics", which means nothing but is part of "sci-fi culture" i think you can't say my idea is "babble".

I deal with some of these concepts where I work, and it strikes me as uninformed babble or jargon. You're using overly complicated terms for very simple concepts. It demonstrates misunderstanding, and serves only to confuse others. Its like someone calling water, dihydrogen monoxide.

-About the "player-centric" viewpoint i don't agree except at a superficial level. Ok, you just give some sense somehow, such as there is notihing more than the player sees. Fair enough, it works. What do you get? Since the aliens are put there just to entratain the player, they entratain the player. Terror mission, terror mission, perhaps some other missions, they get tchnology stolen and get destroyed.

It worked for XCOM. Case in point. Further, the underpinning advice in all fiction - show, don't tell.

Don't XVI have a "B plan"? All he does is to try infecting? Nothing more, such as weaken the enemy before exposing? Don't XVI, while humans study him, try to study human weakenesses beyond adapting the virus to the human race?

If XVI was higher functioning, prehaps it has alternative strategies. But unless these strategies are going to be employed in the game mechanics, its a waste of time to consider them. To my knowledge the only mechanics so far to be included are: terror missions, ufos, bases, XVI infection.

http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?topic=5084.0
And as greever said, perhaps in the next century there will be an alien campaign.
See, it's not for the player entretainment to build a solid and deep storyline beyond the player capability to know it. It's about design. If you have a strong backbone story you can introduce more interesting features.

The strongest structure is the most simple one (a triangle in real life). What you've proposed is akin to scoleosis for the story's backbone.

What about give more paths to victory? One researching the FTL drive, the other understanding XVI "psionic" abilities. It would be interesting, but you can't do it in a convicning level if you think only about "player". And what about having more paths to lose? XVI may have different plans and surely if he will ever know humans may counteratack, he may try to destroy humans instead of giving them the chance to destroy him.

This is an issue of game mechanics, and needs to be addressed in the code or the campaign scripting. I've yet to see whether complex 'game over' conditions are possible.

- The decency to do basic research, i see. Do you think i didn't know nano-bots are actually enginered bacteria and viri?

Research, from which I see, you still haven't done. Bacteria generally sit on the lower micron scale, or the very very high nano scale - so they're really not at a nano scale. Viri are generally nano particles, but can't be programmed like a robot and are only capable of replicating DNA/RNA. Hence genetically engineered bacteria & viri are not considered nanobots and its foolish to refer to them as such.
Most proposed nanobots are essentially very tiny mobile computers. However any nanorobot would need to be constructed using bacteria or complicated self assembly. In fact some literature suggests a self replicating robot may not be possible at nano scale. Control of these nanobots would be based on swarm intelligence.

"genetically programmed biological nano-bot, created engineriing a virus or bacteria wich replicates using raw biological materials introduced with food. "
So i knew about this, have the "decency" to read carefully (i know my writing style in english is painful to read). Why then i made this modification? Well, once a virus is re-programmed to serve, i don't think is a virus anymore but a nano-bot. And, I eliminated the replacement mechanism similar to the one of virus which weakens the host attacking his cells (would be a conter-productive plan). This is the difference.

I'm prepared to accept that if English is your second language, it accounts for for your inefficient vocabulary and poor comprehension. But English is my native tongue, and it is plain as day that 'genetically programmed biological nano-bot' is nonsense. If it genetically programmable, its gots genes - and that means its not a nanobot but something with DNA. Also the words biological and robot are contradictions, and the word nanobot is an extension of robot - some of that contradiction carries over.

Virus themselves can't be programmed. All they do is replicate through the host DNA/RNA or its intermediates, creating copies of themselves by modifying the DNA - their only application is to inject new genes. The XVI described so far by Winter is not a virus, but a cellular parasite - of which there are tons of real life examples (Giardia, Cryptospordia).

Furthermore, weakening the host is only an issue if there is no reproduction of hosts. Otherwise all the real life diseases and viruses would never have survived. Furthermore, you can't get something for nothing. Everything has a trade off, so its most realistic to have a complimentary virus weaken its host.

It's not much advanced the idea of nanobots, as you pointed, but the idea of organizational capability both short (inside body) and long range (what magical interaction could be responsible for signal transmission regardless of medium? gravitational?).

Who needs signal transmission. Swarm intelligence will account for any apparant organisational behaviour. Go play the Conway's Game of Life.

Now the polemical part. When "psionic" capability was used do you think somebody made a research on parapsichology journals? I don't think so, the idea of distributed intelligence is in our "sci-fi culture" from "Nemesis" written by Asimov and perhaps before (but i don't know). Also do you think that FTL wormholes were called after studying formally the General Relativity? I don't think so. The concept of "wormholes" and "curvature of space and time" are also in our "sci-fi culture" (think about "Star trek"). I took biological nanobots (real) imbued them with the concept of organization (I recall an episode in Star Trek:TNG where a race of mechanical nanobots with a collective intelligence is accidentally created, giving ordinary service nanobots the capability of communication). So i made somethig already part of "sci-fi culture".

Imbued them? With organisation?
Your proposed ELF communication is impossible according physics, as it requires tranmission antenna half as long as the wavelength (the lower the frequency, the longer the length of antenna), which is impossible at nano scale. At least Psionics COULD be possible by some unknown method of communication.

Anyway, back on topic.. i don't intend to change the storyline, just to deepen it, hoping that it somehow will give ideas for nonlinear developement, psionic warfare and perhaps a future alien campaign.

You haven't made the story deeper, just more complicated & haphazard with no real gain.

For example, with the idea of engineered races dev can create lots of new alien types in the future. If instead my ideas will die here no problem.

The current proposed XVI could easily assimilate other races, so you haven't added anything new. All Winter needs to do is rewrite a section of text no player ever gets to see.

Rather then sit here trying to rewrite the bible, how about putting the same effort into translating the game into italian, or what ever your native tongue is.

6

Design / Re: SPOILERS - Storyline proposal

« on: December 20, 2010, 09:33:53 am »

There is a far more simpler point.

The timeline of things that happened before the game starts, does not need to be edited or explained any better than what Winter has. There absolutely no point

Why? - The player will never know. It exists simply as an unseen foundation for the storyline in the game, and is perfectably capable of doing so provided it makes sense. Winter could have wrote "The spacefaring Tamarians found/made a mind controlling parasite and infected themselves, which caused them to find and then to infect the Ortnoks, now they both are going to try to infect earth".

This is not a book, this is a game. The player has a limited perspective of whats going on storywise, and its that perspective you should aim to polish.

If you going to use words like "genetically programmed biological nano-bot", have the decency to do some basic research - thus realising what you're talking about was essentially genetically engineered bacteria and viri - which has not been science fiction in a long time.

7

Design / Big Improvements

« on: December 17, 2010, 06:46:39 am »

Its been about five years since I was near this forum, and this game - not by choice mind you - but the differences between that game and the one now are staggering
Firstly I'd like to extend a large bunch of banana's to the codemonkeys for their work so far. I think the boys at id should be impressed with what you've done with the engine.

Anyway I'm back and would be happy to help out in regards to design & concept, specifically the polishing. I've also since read a number of scifi invasion series, and would like to share the relevant tropes that can be used to to maintain the suspension of disbelief. For example:
Stephen Barnes - Kaleidoscope Century, Candle: Super Memes (that overwrite your mind), Big Bad Guy isn't so Bad
Harry Turtledove - Colonisation series: Invading on bad Intel, One species's herb is another species's drug, Slow society vs fast society, stealing the enemys weapons and using it against them, STL travel
Robert Buettner - Orphan series: Alien aliens and their more alien tactics, It hurts them but not us

The mail client is a brilliant idea for delivering information in the game. But tone and language of the technical stuff in the ufopaedia needs some  work, some of it lacks the seriousness/professionalism you expect from an expert. Thats purely my opinion based on the technical stuff i deal with in RL

UFO storage and dissassembly are a novel inclusion in the game, and improves upon the strategic gameplay. As is the idea of selling ufo's to make countries happy. I'd also like to see if that could be used to affect countries in other ways, or even the global market.

The starting weapons are great in terms of variety and function, and was something that previous games in the genre lacked. As is the ability to dev new ammo for the GL, and categorising the weapons. Shotguns are something that was overlooked in the XCOM series, so its great to see them here.

The storyline looks more fleshed out now, and including other cities being attacked in the intro makes it more plausible. The virus idea seems reminscient of XCOM3, but I'm stuck wondering how a virus gets the ideas to build FTL ships.

Lastly, a new skill I picked up in the past years was OO programming, in Java & VB.net; previously I'd only had experience in procedural for C++ & fortan77. Most of my experience has been in simulation & modelling, generating and cranking out numbers for engineering analysis (FEM, DEM, MCM). I've already got mingw & eclipse, so I'm hoping to get around to checking out the source and whether its within my grasp.

8

Design / Storyline Proposal: Time travelling aliens

« on: August 04, 2006, 08:46:52 am »

Time travel is a huge landmine.

Why go back only 500years?
What about the effect of changing history?
Can they go back to the future?
Why did they attack earth in the first place
If they can travel in time, how come they can't beat us in the present?
What do they hope to achieve in the past?
Why are they kidnapping people?

Needs to be thought out a little better. An original idea, but not exactly a workable one.

9

Design / Not the aliens, but us returning from a long travel?

« on: August 04, 2006, 08:41:16 am »

I think this idea is incapitable with the project as is.
There's no way we're going to tie this into the game.


It is however a brilliant idea, and deserves a game in its own right.
It would easily make an excellent background for a RTS game of some sort.

I think this key idea was done in Fallout & Warzone 2100.
The idea that you've been out of the loop and finally got back to fine things have changed, does provide a dynamic idea.

I would think that either you're an Expeditionary force, thats been in stasis, and finally returned. Or, you're the descendants of the expeditionary force.

A slight variation, that borrows the ideas of Fallout, bear in mind its on the spur and not really well thought out:

You're a military organisation that spent the last 30 years in a bunker, after catastrophic attack. You come out to find that the earth is still in a good condition, and even some of the nations still exist. But there's an alien menance and by god its not happy to see you.
So you've got to play catch up, and fight the aliens back to claim terroritory. Get chummy with the local governments.

We'll make it far fetched, and say that all other military forces have been wiped out in battle more or less. THe aliens have send their main military forces to move on, and only have a peacekeeping force. But the moment you show face, they start to call them back. etc. So you spend you time kicking peacekeeper arse, and stealing tech. Slowly the main force returns and gives you a hard time.


The rest is just typical XCOM fashion. Be a hero & save the world.

10

Design / What's the story, morning glory?

« on: August 04, 2006, 08:24:06 am »

I'm in the same boat.

PC bit the dust, and as such I've been busy.
Its so annoying to know I've fallen behind.

UPDATE ME BITCH.

11

Design / Design: Storyline

« on: July 02, 2006, 07:49:04 pm »

Look, I'm not disagreeing with you two outright.
I'm just saying that the Mumbai Incident is not the way to go about things.
I'm not trying to peddle my idea of a story, I'm just trying to ensure that certain mistakes aren't made. I feel that the currently plot resembles that of UFO Aftermath, of which I felt was poor executed. Good engine, good concepts, shit story.

There are ways to make the aliens appear hostile. But the complete destruction of a city  by ground incursion with no enemy casualities is not the way to go about it.

Can't remember who brought it up before, but there was mention about a suspension of belief etc. The game's plot needs to present a realistic scenario, and be a functional plot.

We want the players to believe that this could be real. We want them to believe that this could be happening in real life, starting tomorrow. Pull them into the story.

Didn't XCOM feel real to you?

Let me propose a more fitting alternative to the Mumbai Incident.
Ideally this would be a player mission (you personally experiecing the mumbai incident), but could always be presented as a back story.

----BEGINNING----
Aliens have been monitored entering known space. Phalanx Protocols followed with the organisation of a Extraterrestrial Combat Force (codename Phalanx) to defend against incursions.
Aliens land a ground force at 'Mumbai'. Phalanx Deployed. Civilians evacuate as a huge arse firefight occurs, aliens neutralised at the expense 90% of the phalanx team killed (alt: aliens self destruct their landing craft killing all surviving the phalanx or if the humans lose they deploy a tactical nuke to wipe out the aliens).
Phalanx forced to start reassembling their team (all the decent soldiers having been killed at mumbai), as the Aliens change their strategy (knowing the humans just kicked their arse) to hit and run attacks with small forces.
----END----
Normal play can continue from here.


Just don't make the plot mistakes they did in UFO Aftermath & Aftershock.

Bandobras:

I don't see an advanced alien race having radically different logic to ourselves. They might be biologically & Culturally different, but tactics and strategies are always going to be similar albeit superior. Simply because good tactics and strategies work, bad ones don't. Darwinism.

I don't see a mad tyrant amassing a large army and travelling across the galaxy. Just oozes B-Movie plot to me. The crazy Tyrants generally get taken out by an associate anyway.

I'll think you find that wars supposedly started for revenge, generally have other motives behind them, with someone ending up alot better off then they were before. I can't honestly think of any war solely fought for revenge.

12

Design / Design: Storyline

« on: June 29, 2006, 08:26:23 am »

I believe the reason why certain plot ideas, i. e 'warmongering, revenge for unintended harm done to them, revenge for killing their scouting missions', have been overlooked is because most people see their use as futile.

Warmongering is at best cliche. Its not to say it couldn't be done as a reason for invasion, but it would need to be done very well. This invasion scenario has been over used in film, and the original Xcoms technically used it as well. The person who sucessfully works this into a plot will undoubtly be hit upon by some kind of epiphany beforehand. Attempts to develop this purely from scratch will prove impossible


'Revenge for Killing their Scouts' seems completely unrealistic to me. I would think as a player, this use of this in plot would be seen as a choice of convenience /laziness. A scout is a military unit, and is sent when a military response is expected.  The idea of getting upset because your miltary units got attacked is childish.

The idea is reused in 'Revenge for Unintended Harm'. Invasion is never about revenge. The resources and time can never be justified by retribution. Military revenge is generally carried out through the use of guerillas and insurgency. Alot more bang for your buck.


I will attempt to explain the rationale behind invasion, in terms of economics and strategy:

To commit to an invasion, the results of the invasion must offer more value then the projects time and resources to be used.

To commit to an invasion, it must be possible to continue the invasion as long as necessary, that is 5 to 10 times the expected time frame. That is you must have the resources and units to sustain the warfare.

The sucess of the invasion must seem tactically possible will the available units & resources plus the units and resources from future production and gathering, based on current intelligence.

A retreat option must be possible if there is a likely chance of failure.

The motivation for the invasion must be rational enough that all troops employed will agree or understand it.

And before anyone starts off on the tangent, you can't justify a war purely on revenge. There's got to be a solid return, like land, resources or status.
Its just stupid.



Lastly, the whole Mumbai scenario really needs to get thrown out. Its no way to start a game plot. You don't start a plot straight off with a climax, because the plot intensity will be going down hill from then onwards until its ready to start building up again.

13

Design / Storyline variant: Deceitful aliens backstory

« on: June 20, 2006, 08:55:35 am »

BT,

There is a very simple explaination for a rare mineral being on earth, which is also the same for the artifact being on earth.

We didn't know about it.

Hence why we never paid any attention to it.
Uranium has been around for centuries, but only in the past 5 decades has there been a desire to dig it up and use it.

If we don't have a use for a rare mineral, chances are we don't care about it. There's tons of rare minerals on earth that we know of, but don't use and hence don't mine. But the moment someone found a use for it, we'd be digging it up like crazy.

The PSX game C-12, aliens were mining earth for Carbon, the people included.

Its a simple explanation for a variety of scenarios. Something is on earth, we don't know about it, but the aliens do. Let the conflict begin.

14

Design / Storyline variant: Deceitful aliens backstory

« on: June 19, 2006, 04:48:06 pm »

Just to continue on rationalising the 'search' scenario, I think the following needs to be established in such a storyline.

The item (or person) that the aliens seek is not indestructable, else they'd have just nuked earth from orbit and search through the rubble. Its capable of resisting the effects of time, but not a close proximity nuclear blast.

If the item was by chance indestructable, it would have to be rather small and not possible to locate by various scans, hence making it impossible to find it in a planet full of rubble.

Its location is prehaps recorded somewhere on earth, and that too needs to be located first. Or prehaps some destructable locating device exists.

These points explain why the aliens didn't just nuke the planet from orbit.

The aliens did not expect an organised resistance. They arrived with a 'pacification' unit to calm the natives, they were not expecting full blown war. Hence they're better equipped, but are forced to deal with the situation by means alternative to straight out violence.

They're not interested in sharing. What ever they're after, they don't want us knowing about it. Hence why we can't help them find it. In fact they attempt to keep it secret as to what they're really up to. One of the goals in stopping the invasion would be discovering why its taking place (this should remain true for all scenarios). Then it becomes a race to see who can find the item first. Then the player is given a choice what to do with it, and endgame proceeds.

Possible artifacts:
Planet Killer (superweapon) - personally I find this rather cliche. zIf used, needs to be done carefully with alot of thought.
Ancient Map - we're home to some intergalactic map.
Prophet/Exile/Convict - Some other alien calls earth home, and his buddies want him back/dead.
Holy Grail - We've got some wizbang item that the aliens want, that does really cool things.
Rare Mineral - We've got some rare mineral that the aliens would like to mine. Unfortunately most of our cities happen to be situated on top of it.

As for the Endgame, giving the alien the artifact results in a bad ending. Outsmarting the aliens (like sabotaging the artifact or sending a fake) results in a good ending.
Blowing it up or getting rid of it results in a neutral ending.


To reiterate what has been said before, to make a good storyline/plot you need to establish why the aliens are here, what they're trying to do, what constitutes a success for them - Even if you don't let the player find out. There needs to be motivations for your opponents even if they're not going to be revealed. From there, you can find ways for the player to throw a few wrenches into the works.

15

Design / Storyline variant: Deceitful aliens backstory

« on: June 18, 2006, 10:29:31 am »

Some points mentioned:

Phalanx Duties including customs.
I don't think we've addressed the issues of quarrantine very much so far, although I think it came up in a disscussion about transporting alien equipment. I'm sure the concept of quarrantine could form the basis for certain missions, having to go in and cease alien goods or debris. Its an interesting point.

Phalanx Duties 'Call the Army'.
This would undoubtly require new code which is something that requires comment from the admins. Sounds similar to the Delegate option found in UFO Aftermath. Could be useful in early games for new players, but as one built a larger organisation with multiple teams, or one was a more experienced player who could manage things, it would become obsolete.
A cost vs benefit issue I believe.
Still a good point about attempting to include the regular army into gameplay.

Addendum:
Your idea of the aliens being very deceitful does work very well with the idea of an anonymous benefactor. It would be fairly likely that aliens would attempt to 'PR' the situation. It costs less, even though it could take longer.
Arguable you could use several of the points for each section and tie them together, but remember more is less and less is more. Attempting to intertwine all the ideas will result in a complex and confusing mess of a plot.