Messages

1

Design / Re: SPOILERS - Storyline proposal

« on: January 10, 2011, 12:43:00 pm »

Uh, excuse me, but what exactly is this discussion thread about?  What's the main point?

Glancing at parts of the posts (I admit I haven't read all of everything here, too many complicated terms, and much of it is brain-melting material anyways) I see a lot of back and forth debate that has gone into what I believe is referred to as "Ad Hominem" arguments - Where people on all sides are not responding to some of the points expressed but instead picking on the use of terminology and the grammar used by others.  This has brought the discussion from what was already a bad idea in the original first post (more about that in a sec) all the way to something obscure and contrasensical** that I can't identify at all.

I'm wondering if this thread should be locked and shuttered.  It doesn't seem to have any real purpose or meaning at this stage, glancing at the most recent posts, and was doomed to begin with.

The reasons it was bad to start with:

- This game is a game, not an upwards-of-a-thousand-pages science fiction novel.  The plot is supposed to be rather simple, and shouldn't be expanded to death.

- The storyline/plot is already established and is pretty much finalized.  Changing or revamping anything would mean backtracking in development and/or adding a lot more work for the devs.

- We don't really need more ideas, concepts, or additional story, we already have all the general planning done, are past the early planning stage, and at this time really need artists, people who can make maps and content, and people who can program.

- "open source" does NOT mean "open development" where anyone - especially a newcomer - can come along and be a "boss" by changing stuff, and expect everyone else to revamp stuff and make it all happen in the game, doing all of it *for* such a person.

- Related to the previous point, long ago when this project was new it suffered from this, as many people would come and go from the project, changing and revamping all kinds of things left and right, almost at random as everyone wanted something different, creating a chaotic mess.  I myself wasn't actually around during this, but I've been here long enough to have heard about this.

- The existing storyline is *good enough*, at least for a game, and as such it doesn't need to be re-opened or changed.

(** Yes, I said "contrasensical."  If you don't like that word, or don't like my English or grammar, tough shit - I don't care, and I'm not an English major.  That being said, when any of you respond to this post, I just ask that you respond to my main points I've made, and not make it about my choice of words, which is what I see a lot of in this thread.  Too much of this thread has gone into the realm of the absurd, and then beyond that.)

There wasn't in my opinion a real main point. "Pimp my story" could have been ignored, but XVI behaviour could have been re-thought for the late game or vice-versa. Then the discussion moved about infomration/misinformation and real-world topics.
About the storyline, ok, tweaks are useless, as I agreed some posts ago. I didn't know many things were already finalized.

The bossy attitude - I think you misunderstood me (or the others if you included them too) ... Devs have the final option on every proposal/brainstorming. There is simply who doesn't have time/will to contribute as a serious task, but have some ideas. This doesn't mean being bossy, if it's something like "here my idea, devs do what you like", and if i discuss them with other newcomers. I know there are better things to contribute, but these also need a more serious effort. And ideas never hurt, they can be ignored if they aren't good.

2

Design / Re: SPOILERS - Storyline proposal

« on: January 10, 2011, 09:21:44 am »

<1b>- Highly unlikely. The way the current storyline has been envisioned, XVI simply wants to expand its domain, by acquiring more and more hosts – and it's not even picky about them !...

<3b> - Fine. Nobody knows everything, that's a fact well understood. But you could have documented yourself, couldn't you?

<4> - Well, on the same line of reasoning, the problem is that you proposed a "classical" means of communication in the first place, i.e. through radio waves – which just so happen to go together with a "classical" transmission/reception device, such as the antenna.

-I know, and that is the problem in my opinion.

-The notation I used about High-Low isn't incorrect. Just it's part of a broader field of study. My guiding principle was to assume the greater scale when not expressed.

-I wasn't referring necessarly to Quantum Phase Transitions, just quantum transitions, anyway the thing you said about the difficult conditions is correct as we stated before.

-these frequencies can excite atoms (and these are quantum transitions). Not regular levels on the n quantum number but other such as Hyperfine.

-The idea of entanglement is fine, it should be taken into consideration. However i think that the "difficult conditions" issue regards also the entanglement. We can assume they have been overcame by the aliens anyway.


Just to clarify

3

Design / Re: SPOILERS - Storyline proposal

« on: December 23, 2010, 11:33:43 am »

You have no idea what you're talking about. Antenna are not some 'classical' device, they are the only method of transmitting EM at those frequencies. Nanoscale means jack shit. You require the length to fit the wave. Quantum transitions only possible at absolute zero, which is NEVER going to occur in a living person. NEVER. Again, you have no idea what you're talking about. Just accept that the idea doesn't work and move on.

I will say again, you require half the wave length for transmission. There's a way of cheating to get a quarter wavelength, but requires perfectly conducting ground. Magnetic Loop antenna can be at best 1/10th of the wavelength, but you still require antenna in the order of kilometers. So as I said its impossible to transmit ULF, for the same reason as the US and RUSSIA had great difficulty transmitting the higher frequency SLF to their subs.

I have already said that things like that work at very low temperatures, I wasn't anymore talking about living creatures. Are you sure you read before posting? Supposing that you, by writing "QT only occur at only at zero" (which is wrong) meant actually that is possible to use them near zero (they happen always, but if the energy levels are thermally populated irradiating them has no - or minor - useful effect, since you reach soon a balance between absorbition and stimulated emission). At that energy scale they should "work" on the scale of Kelvin. And, i repeat, an external magnetic field messes up everything, at least considering atomic transitions on that scale. And this is not something you want for a technolgy working outside laboratory. So, i know what i am talking about, and we said the very same thing.

The thing i said is different than you interpreted: simply just because there is a limit to antenna possibility, the direction of studies should involve these phenomena, considering the fact that quantum transitions  occur indipendently to the lenght scale (but not ALL possible transitions... if you are curious about the scale length effect look for "selection rules"). There are also some tricks involving multiple-level systems. I am talking about "scientifically possibile in line of principle", you are talking about "technologically possible". If we talk about technology (working devices outside lab conditions) i agree to your viewpoint as you should agree mine regarding to "possible in principle". And i repeat: not applied to living beings, as things stand now.

Ah BTW ... "classical" is not dispregiative, it refers to "classical physics rules". No Quantum phenomena, nor relativistic ones. The good old fashioned (and always working) Maxwell laws are "classical" indeed.

Just accept that the idea doesn't work and move on.

As i said: "Of course this wouldn't work for my hipotetic technobabble, i pointed it just for curiosity (before somebody start flaming thinking i am trying to connect them)"

PS: sorry for the repeated edits this time but i couldn't stay here for much time and i built this message piece by piece.

4

Design / Re: SPOILERS - Storyline proposal

« on: December 22, 2010, 12:36:18 pm »

<1> Then *WHY* do it at all?!? What's the point in changing/adding stuff it, if you're not providing any sort of improvement to the overall story, or to certain story elements? Just so you can have some different "bling" words in there, and/or an overly complicated array of details upon details upon details? Who cares about those anyway?!?
Hang on a minute... Is this, perchance, a rerun of the «Pimp My Story» TV-show?
<2> You're absolutely right. I did not get your point at all; and I still don't. So what the hell is wrong with just saying "Roughly [insert some random figure here] years ago"?! (well, as long as the number used makes some sense -- but that's another issue) Why do you feel you need to say more than just that?
<3> This Wiki article explains what "technobabble" means in context: Technobabble (Wikipedia). You should have researched the term yourself -- since it obviously was unfamiliar to you -- rather than making assumptions and getting defensive... until someone points it out to you.
I chose to add the "pseudo-" (Lat. "false") suffix to it because... well, yours is even worse than the normal brand -- proof that, no offence, you don't really know what you're talking about. By the way, have you ever wondered why all our current, modern wireless communication systems operate within the High and Very High frequency range (i.e. "microwaves"), and why we continuously struggle to get even higher? Just a thought...

-LOL "pimp my story" is hilarious, can you immagine the dialogues: "Now, for the villain of the story we added a Nuclear Green closet and a 40'' Tv in his bedroom! whoooo!"... hold on a second... i made the same thing :O, but I enjoyed myself. Well, it's not too late to propose more incisive improvement anyway...
one thing i made, as i pointed out, was eventually to give open possibility for new species, without having to invent a planet for each one. And the "borg-ish" attitude toward assimilation. Maybe, XVI wants to force evolution and create the perfect race. And as the game progresses there may be different kind of challenge. nothing more.

- There is no problem in saying "roughly" by itself. The problem arises when you put two "roughly xxx" that are separated only by 1 year... immagine it about distance measurements. "your car's back is roughly 100.000 m from me and your car's front is about 99.999 m from me" while i know only that you live in a city about 100 km from mine. It's nothing important anyway.

-I knew only "babble" and thinking that "technobabble" wasn't a known term with it's own meaning, I interpreted from "babble". Thank you for pointing it out. About low-high ... i don't know the terminology in the field. In my filed "high" may be referred to X or Gamma ... so MW is still low-frequency. I didn't state the exact frequency range since i have no real experience in communication signals used in current technology.

Very interesting links. Indeed, i thought "Virus" admitted latin plural.

About the antenna... the problem is that antennas are a "classical" device. The best way to work on nanoscale would involve quantum transitions and the control of molecular structures. Currently these are archieved at very low temperatures and for different purposes (for now just studying some base properties, such as the energy level structure, anisotropy, magnetism). I stil have to prepare a basic-level exam on this topic from scratch, so i cannot exactly tell you how things work but have a look at the possibilities exposed in some slides without any technobabble http://cm.physics.tamu.edu/seminars/S_Bader_09_09_04.pdf (from Pag 23 it's exalting, although since are slidesthey're not much clear... google more if you are curious). Of course this wouldn't work for my hipotetic technobabble, i pointed it just for curiosity (before somebody start flaming thinking i am trying to connect them)

I may put my efforts in a more gamish proposal, perhaps when i have time i will deepen the solider trait system (including "background traits") i proposed some weeks ago. That would be more useful, wonuldn't it?

5

Design / Re: SPOILERS - Storyline proposal

« on: December 21, 2010, 12:35:33 pm »

I deal with some of these concepts where I work, and it strikes me as uninformed babble or jargon. You're using overly complicated terms for very simple concepts. It demonstrates misunderstanding, and serves only to confuse others. Its like someone calling water, dihydrogen monoxide.

It worked for XCOM. Case in point. Further, the underpinning advice in all fiction - show, don't tell.


If XVI was higher functioning, prehaps it has alternative strategies. But unless these strategies are going to be employed in the game mechanics, its a waste of time to consider them. To my knowledge the only mechanics so far to be included are: terror missions, ufos, bases, XVI infection.
 The strongest structure is the most simple one (a triangle in real life). What you've proposed is akin to scoleosis for the story's backbone.

 This is an issue of game mechanics, and needs to be addressed in the code or the campaign scripting. I've yet to see whether complex 'game over' conditions are possible.

Research, from which I see, you still haven't done. Bacteria generally sit on the lower micron scale, or the very very high nano scale - so they're really not at a nano scale. Viri are generally nano particles, but can't be programmed like a robot and are only capable of replicating DNA/RNA. Hence genetically engineered bacteria & viri are not considered nanobots and its foolish to refer to them as such.
Most proposed nanobots are essentially very tiny mobile computers. However any nanorobot would need to be constructed using bacteria or complicated self assembly. In fact some literature suggests a self replicating robot may not be possible at nano scale. Control of these nanobots would be based on swarm intelligence.

I'm prepared to accept that if English is your second language, it accounts for for your inefficient vocabulary and poor comprehension. But English is my native tongue, and it is plain as day that 'genetically programmed biological nano-bot' is nonsense. If it genetically programmable, its gots genes - and that means its not a nanobot but something with DNA. Also the words biological and robot are contradictions, and the word nanobot is an extension of robot - some of that contradiction carries over.

Virus themselves can't be programmed. All they do is replicate through the host DNA/RNA or its intermediates, creating copies of themselves by modifying the DNA - their only application is to inject new genes. The XVI described so far by Winter is not a virus, but a cellular parasite - of which there are tons of real life examples (Giardia, Cryptospordia).

Furthermore, weakening the host is only an issue if there is no reproduction of hosts. Otherwise all the real life diseases and viruses would never have survived. Furthermore, you can't get something for nothing. Everything has a trade off, so its most realistic to have a complimentary virus weaken its host.


Who needs signal transmission. Swarm intelligence will account for any apparant organisational behaviour. Go play the Conway's Game of Life.
Imbued them? With organisation?
Your proposed ELF communication is impossible according physics, as it requires tranmission antenna half as long as the wavelength (the lower the frequency, the longer the length of antenna), which is impossible at nano scale. At least Psionics COULD be possible by some unknown method of communication.

 You haven't made the story deeper, just more complicated & haphazard with no real gain.

 The current proposed XVI could easily assimilate other races, so you haven't added anything new. All Winter needs to do is rewrite a section of text no player ever gets to see.

Rather then sit here trying to rewrite the bible, how about putting the same effort into translating the game into italian, or what ever your native tongue is.

First of all... of course when i wrote that i considered "maybe this part won't do... perhaps they won't take this part but they will like the more planning behaviour of XVI... i will write everything anyway"

- That can be reworked, i see your point. I thought that once a virus is modified to not replicate attacking the host's cells it isn't a virus anymore. Since it is somehow "programmed" for a specific task a term "biologial bot" would be more appropriate. So "engineered virus" is the correct terminology, i got it?

- Conservative.

- XVI strategies must be thought based on XVI's objectives, which are stated in the back story. If XVI objective is just to grow and he can't even consider a basic strategy as controlling the reproductive rate of his hosts i can't see what else could XVI do except what he does now. I know it has no impact in game now (and ever, i suppose).

-The concept of simple itself is relative. I didn't even describe Antares geographical map, the political parties of the state which has started it all, nor the Ortnoks religion in detail. C'mon, just kidding! I got your point.

-The same as before on XVI strategies. Anyway you would agree that at least for the path to victory there could be more ways in the future.

-High nanoscale and low microscale boundaries are quite ... blurry. it should be between 10 and 100 nanometers.

-the -bot fact is simpler anyway yes, english is my secondary language. I confused the role of DNA in biocomputers (it's not my invention)  with the role of dna in viria and bacteria, that are essentially different. I tried to think about a modified being wich incorporates DNA as information for computing. A swarm of these beings could load much information. That was my mistake. Anyway, from a philosophical standpoint, aren't we machines - made of biological matter?.The  Brain is a computer, our DNA is just storaged information. Soul? nah!
About the reproduction as the solution for weakening i thought about it. For humans in western countries with 1-2 offspring each couple it would be not good. Plus, the virus should infect the fetus that share blood with mother, and the child born already infected. Perhaps Antaresians worked in a different way? (remember: XVI took power only later, the original plan of politicians was different)

-I thought about it. A dense bulk of nanobeings could be the missing antenna, provided they are organized to do so. But there are several other problems, such as the inefficency both to receive and to send signals and back noise would keep it from functioning. I already thougt about it. See, i don't believe in "unknown forms of communication".
Also, if "unknown" can be taken as a valid argument i could tell that Antaresians' technology was more advanced than ours in complex systems and they were able to do the things i said in an "unknown way".

-i will play it, then i shall understand what you mean

-we are not here for gain i suppose

-I rewrote only the Ortnoks bible. Besides jokes, i could put my effort elsewhere. During the time i answered those posts i would have finished anyway,and started to propose things aout the campaign. But ithat was the first thing to do, right? Start from what the player can see.

Anyway i realized the fundamental point of your critics (i didn't find them much constructive, but interesting the last one from a field specialist). You essentially told me that if you have to use lots of fantasy it's better using a simple concept like "psionics" than a "sort" of explaination which leaves anyway a lot of opened questions. The problem is not solved that way. I agree about this critic.

Ok, let's take away the "nanites" part (perhaps that name fits better, doesn't it?). What about the rest? It could work anyway. About XVI having the possibility to move information inside the network, the use of genetically altered beings, the exact role of the "Control device" as the new cohordination center? This last one could lead to one of victory paths in game.

I meant realistic as in the literature style, realism.
And at least they're consistent which is the thing we should strive for. Realistic (as in, close to our reality) physics might/could/should be a good bonus objective but it isn't the main one.

You, sir, missed the point. Don't call it unnecessarily complex. Use more understandable ways to say what you want. You don't call water dihydrogen monoxide outside talks about chemical formulas, do you? Neither should you call something "genetically programmed biological nano-bot" outside one remark in a research text when there's a simpler way of saying it (and according to BloodMagus, it's also a wrong term).

- I agree about realism in that way, but I don't see the connection then. Realism in that way should be paying attention to explain why things developed as they did, and explain why they could'nt evolve in a different way. I tried. Perhaps failed, but i tried in that way if you leave the techno-thing aside and look carefully to XVI behaviour.

-I should have pinted that the primary issue of my change was about the replication method. This could have avoided some misunderstandment.

6

Design / Re: SPOILERS - Storyline proposal

« on: December 21, 2010, 12:36:08 am »

Besides the fact that Winter said he doesn't take suggestions for the storyline, one thing about your storyline IMO: too much technobabble.

You keep talking bout a sci-fi culture but please realize that UFO: AI (at least, to my knowledge) is hard sci-fi. Realistic sci-fi. That means minimal amount of technobabble and a very self-consistent world, usually with the physics being close to ours. IMO you keep saying things in complicated, technobabblish ways. Just name the damn thing gene-manipulated or artifically created bacteria or virus, instead of "genetically programmed biological nano-bot". It may sound flashier but it's unnecessarily complicated.

Also, yes, they were called wormholes after studying general relativity. It was coined by a physicist in 57, Star Trek came 66. I'm not sure whether space curvature came from it or not but I think yes, it came from it based on the Idea of space-time. (Also, IIRC, the curving thing was retroactively put into the Star Trek series.)

This might be sci-fi but don't flood it with all sorts of useless complications and factoids/facts.

Realistic and closer to our physics? So you say that psionics are nearer to our physics than EM signals are?

About wormholes i meant that since somebody have already done the research, and they are part of that "culture", nowadays that concept can be recalled without much pain. As the concepts of collective intelligence and psionics.

About the organism you missed the point - you can "call" it as you like virus, bacteria - even "Mikey Mouse" for what i could care - but the replication mechanism should be the smartest possible to keep the host in good health and not the one of an "ordinary virus". For the sake of the "very consistent world", i suppose antaresian politicians weren't fools

7

Design / Re: SPOILERS - Storyline proposal

« on: December 20, 2010, 01:35:12 pm »

I don't get it; how is this *slightly tweaked* storyline of yours any better than the "official" one?!

You're only making minor changes to the initial wording (i.e. " [...] and subsequent years " -- isn't it obvious that a *historic/background* timeline will cover a stream of events from some past moment in time to the "present time" of the epic?!), or adding complexity without any insight or depth (i.e. " [...] not a virus, but a genetically programmed biological nano-bot " -- I'm not even sure what all that pseudo-techno babble was supposed to mean, or what are the implied differences from the "original description" of XVI), thus only confusing the reader and shattering the "suspension of disbelief".

By the way, why are you doing this? As I remember, there was a post from the authors, some good time ago, which clearly stated that no more suggestions/alterations will be accepted to the current storyline, as it is final (own views on this issue notwithstanding). So why bother at all?!

P.S. Should you choose to continue this endeavour, to whatever end and for whatever reasons, let me give you a bit of (free) advice: do use a spelling checker, OK? (e.g. it's 'their', not 'theyr'; 'genome', not 'genoma' etc. etc. )

-It's not better, it is the same with some more details.

- About "subsequent yrs": you didn't get the point i was aiming at, but it wasn't obvious. If you write "Roughly 1,000,000" it means that you can't give events with a much detailed time resolution. So it is a formal mistake to give events "roughly 1,000,000 -> R. 999,999". "Subsequent" was referred to the fact i have merged the first steps of storyline in a single step of less-than-thousand years.

-Pseudo-techno babble? First of all, it's not pseudo-techno but in part is reality. And when the alternative explaination is "psionics", which means nothing but is part of "sci-fi culture" i think you can't say my idea is "babble".

-I have read that post about altering the storyline. If i remember correctly it was in response to more radical changes. I repeat, i not going to change anything, just strenghten the structure. And if devs don't like it, they just leave it and no offense is made.

There is a far more simpler point.

The timeline of things that happened before the game starts, does not need to be edited or explained any better than what Winter has. There absolutely no point

Why? - The player will never know. It exists simply as an unseen foundation for the storyline in the game, and is perfectably capable of doing so provided it makes sense. Winter could have wrote "The spacefaring Tamarians found/made a mind controlling parasite and infected themselves, which caused them to find and then to infect the Ortnoks, now they both are going to try to infect earth".

This is not a book, this is a game. The player has a limited perspective of whats going on storywise, and its that perspective you should aim to polish.

If you going to use words like "genetically programmed biological nano-bot", have the decency to do some basic research - thus realising what you're talking about was essentially genetically engineered bacteria and viri - which has not been science fiction in a long time.

-About the "player-centric" viewpoint i don't agree except at a superficial level. Ok, you just give some sense somehow, such as there is notihing more than the player sees. Fair enough, it works. What do you get? Since the aliens are put there just to entratain the player, they entratain the player. Terror mission, terror mission, perhaps some other missions, they get tchnology stolen and get destroyed.
Don't XVI have a "B plan"? All he does is to try infecting? Nothing more, such as weaken the enemy before exposing? Don't XVI, while humans study him, try to study human weakenesses beyond adapting the virus to the human race?
http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?topic=5084.0
And as greever said, perhaps in the next century there will be an alien campaign.
See, it's not for the player entretainment to build a solid and deep storyline beyond the player capability to know it. It's about design. If you have a strong backbone story you can introduce more interesting features. What about give more paths to victory? One researching the FTL drive, the other understanding XVI "psionic" abilities. It would be interesting, but you can't do it in a convicning level if you think only about "player". And what about having more paths to lose? XVI may have different plans and surely if he will ever know humans may counteratack, he may try to destroy humans instead of giving them the chance to destroy him.

- The decency to do basic research, i see. Do you think i didn't know nano-bots are actually enginered bacteria and viri?
"genetically programmed biological nano-bot, created engineriing a virus or bacteria wich replicates using raw biological materials introduced with food. "
So i knew about this, have the "decency" to read carefully (i know my writing style in english is painful to read). Why then i made this modification? Well, once a virus is re-programmed to serve, i don't think is a virus anymore but a nano-bot. And, I eliminated the replacement mechanism similar to the one of virus which weakens the host attacking his cells (would be a conter-productive plan). This is the difference.
It's not much advanced the idea of nanobots, as you pointed, but the idea of organizational capability both short (inside body) and long range (what magical interaction could be responsible for signal transmission regardless of medium? gravitational?).

Now the polemical part. When "psionic" capability was used do you think somebody made a research on parapsichology journals? I don't think so, the idea of distributed intelligence is in our "sci-fi culture" from "Nemesis" written by Asimov and perhaps before (but i don't know). Also do you think that FTL wormholes were called after studying formally the General Relativity? I don't think so. The concept of "wormholes" and "curvature of space and time" are also in our "sci-fi culture" (think about "Star trek"). I took biological nanobots (real) imbued them with the concept of organization (I recall an episode in Star Trek:TNG where a race of mechanical nanobots with a collective intelligence is accidentally created, giving ordinary service nanobots the capability of communication). So i made somethig already part of "sci-fi culture".

Anyway, back on topic.. i don't intend to change the storyline, just to deepen it, hoping that it somehow will give ideas for nonlinear developement, psionic warfare and perhaps a future alien campaign.
For example, with the idea of engineered races dev can create lots of new alien types in the future. If instead my ideas will die here no problem.

8

Discussion / Re: About the hivemind!

« on: December 20, 2010, 12:13:34 pm »

I think the projector(s) on earth would be quite interesting

(and in games just as in real life there are things you just can't explain).

Everything in real world could be explained. But on different levels of deepening, and we won't live long enough to get everything explained.

-A scientist.

9

Design / Re: SPOILERS - Storyline proposal

« on: December 19, 2010, 12:09:16 pm »

- Until Roughly 700,000 years ago

XVI keeps on with technological advancement. During this time period XVI morphs his hosts' brains to specialize them, then using the network cohordination becomes able to have a large "thinking group". On the other side, studying Ortnoks' anatomy and genoma, XVI sees theyr potential of growth as powerful soliders. Engineering theyr genoma XVI improves theyr phisical strenght at the cost of reverting theyr individual minds to a primitive level. In few generations, the only thing remaining of former Ortnoks race is a genetic record, and an Hulky engineered being. During that time period other beings are creating, both crossing Ortnoks genoma with Antaresians' , and crossing animal species genomas of both theyr planets. Almost all of these experiments were incompatible with life thus terminated upon creation. Very few of these experiments were actually new species adept to various tasks. <- This is to justify the more species the player will encounter, without having to create a planet for each of these. Now more races could be added in game as genetically enginered creatures without having to change the story plot. The virus develops also a powerful psionic projector device, an offshoot of the wormhole FTL technology, allowing itself to maintain its hive mind over colonies several lightyears away, working like a repetitor.. Unfortunately, the hard limits on the projectors' range restricts the virus to merely ravaging several systems at a time.

10

Discussion / Re: About the hivemind!

« on: December 17, 2010, 08:32:16 pm »

Thanks.

Now... seems there are two contraddiction to solve in game...

First of all the problems you were saying before, about last-alien behaviour in tac missions.
The second contraddiction is about the grand campaign - storyline, which i have pointed.

So let's say there is a sub-hivemind controlling Earth operation... maybe only captured aliens are cut-off to avoid information spreading? While the ones on tac missions are still connected to the Earth ops. subhive?

The other possibility is as pointed by Hertzilla. The subhive connects only the aliens in the tac mission, and could have very low morale so when they take penalities the last ones start panicking. (thus simulating low intelligence, cowering).

This one still contraddicts the idea of huge connection distance of hivemind... it's a design problem. Devs, what now?

The ony thing that fixes both contraddictions is to take the aliens not detatched, and the hivemind has the capability to cut off aliens captured from humans. Given the possibility of long-range psionic control and the possibility of revolt from the sub-hivemind it would be a strategical mistake to create the sub-hivemind...

11

Artwork / Re: High Resolution Geoscape Texture Pack including High-Res Normalmap

« on: December 17, 2010, 12:21:57 am »

The game doesn't allow me to do so... it stays on "high"

12

Discussion / Re: About the hivemind!

« on: December 16, 2010, 08:59:18 pm »

Actually NOT! The aliens on earth are cut off from the collective intelligence. They rejoin it once theyr mission on earth is complete, so the alien squad on earth creates a "sub hivemind" to keep them mentally capable for the mission. That is why the lone alien on the PHALANX alien containment was rendered to a imbesil. It got a litle bit smarter with every alien added to the containment and once there were ten aliens they started to be close to human intelligence. Conclution: The sole survivor of the harvester crew should show less mental capabilities than a cat!

I didn't explore the story development ingame, if this detail emerges then you may be right or not - devs should explein if the virus functioning enters in symbiosis with the original brain or if it leaves the host an empty puppet. It depends.
These are taken from the official storyline, so if in game emerges contraddiction it must be resolved:

"The viral mind cannot voluntarily divide itself for more than a few days, much like a sane human being wouldn't voluntarily lobotomise himself. After a few days the XVI organisms in the hosts' blood will begin to mutate and resist reassimilation into the original mind, growing their own new mind instead. If left alone, these could grow more powerful than the original whilst outside supervision, and would undoubtedly come into conflict with the original over the same resources. The original is well aware of this and has no intention to be anything but number one."

"- Roughly 700,000 years ago
The virus develops a powerful psionic projector device, an offshoot of the wormhole FTL technology, allowing itself to maintain its hive mind over colonies several lightyears away. Unfortunately, the hard limits on the projectors' range restricts the virus to merely ravaging several systems at a time."


Since i read the official storyline i arrived at my conclusions. But did you find somewhere in game where it says the attackers are detatched from the hive mind?

13

Tactics / Re: Base invasion

« on: December 16, 2010, 07:04:06 pm »

In that point (If it didn't changed) to defend Your base are token first 8 people in the base. Maybe this is the problem?

After all, it isn't silly that when radar engage some UFO's flighting on course to PHALANX base, there aren't any preparations to defend the base?

Cheers, Adzik

Well... complete randomness and complete possibility of choiche are both unrealistic. I suppose that soliders can't stay wake 24/24 hrs, but in a real situation drill turns would be organized rationally, giving equipment to the patrolling soliders if the ones assigned to the vehicle are sleeping. And should exclude wounded soliders provided there are enough not wounded... hhhm... a sleep-wake system for agents would be the cherry on the top of the cake :O

Anyway it's true, the radar could give some time for preparations (wake up, wash teeth, load the flamethrower, put on the armor). Perhaps the ufo will only fly nearby and go away... ok unload flamethrower, take off the armor, go back to bed.

14

Discussion / Re: About the hivemind!

« on: December 16, 2010, 06:41:06 pm »

Sorry, when i answered i didn't read correctly, you were meaning "the last one" on a tactical mission, and not in general terms.

If I understood correctly, the small groups on tac missions are NOT detatched from the hive mind. The hivemind connection range can span light years, according to the official storyline. So...

15

Tactics / Re: Base invasion

« on: December 16, 2010, 03:00:10 pm »

my 2 cents...

In my perspective the problem is not the base extension - which is the only map with perfect extension for my gamestyle (and X-Com nostalgy) but the 8vs8 limit. Which will be changed perhaps to 16+UGV (if I understood correctly, forgive me if not). More soliders = more cover

Another possible approach is to make as the other maps - the map is assembled only with the first near squares to the main entrance. Eyesight in 1-turn and shoot,shoot,shoot.

Another approach: for each base building description write down if it has or not a roof access. Novice players will be able to organize better defences without have to experiment on the field.


As regarding to the base defence mission I found myself in another kind of problem - half the squad wasn't equipped, but the armors were all usd up for the 8-team in the aircraft. So I had 4 half-equipped (and 2 half wonded) defenders. Did I miss something or it is not possible (for now) to choose the defenders?