Messages

1

Discussion / Re: Is sniper still useless? [2.5]

« on: May 09, 2012, 11:05:18 pm »

I know, and that's ok. But why not use crouching = "take the most effective firing position" (crouch, prone, whatever) until that day?

Crouching uses TU, it's not intuitive, that accuracy goes down with some weapons. Realism is fine, keeping it simple is fun.

2

Discussion / Re: Is sniper still useless? [2.5]

« on: May 09, 2012, 10:37:29 pm »

These are good questions.

1. If the crouch bonus to aimed shots for sniper weapons was reduced, it was only because before it was very, very big before. It's still larger for sniper weapons than any other weapon except the RPG. I think I just wanted to make sure they were still effective long-range weapons when standing without being too accurate when crouched.

2. Snap shot accuracy for sniper rifles was reduced because they are big, heavy, unweildy weapons that can not be easily aimed quickly. Think of this not as a measure of the weapon's accuracy, but of the capability of a soldier to accurately deploy the weapon with the given firemode.

3. Machine guns were made less accurate when crouched because the strong recoil makes the position less stable than a standing position. Try going to a kneeling position (our new models will be in a kneeling position) with your right leg down. Your back leg (right) is not as capable of pushing back against heavy recoil (driving into your shoulder) as it is if you are standing. You must rely more on your back muscles. Rapid fire of a heavy machine gun requires strength to keep the fire on target, and this is why standing is a more stable and accurate position. (We don't have support for bipods or resting the gun on something, which can make a crouched/kneeling position more stable.)

Sounds good, but asks for more questions:
Sniper rifles are big, heavy, unweildy weapons that can not be easily aimed quickly, right. That's, why they are most commonly used layed down. Same with Machine guns, it's usually used with a bipod layed down. Why would Phalanx not use these weapons the way, they are meant to be used?
Until now I thought about crouching a little more abscract as "take the most effective firing position". In fact, i saw crouching with a sniper rifle or machine gun as laying down.
It seems strange for Phalanx to deploy weapons to the battlescape and use them improperly. Why would the best way to use a machine gun be "John Rambo memorial style"? That makes only sense in very heavy, inflexible armor, like in jin Roh.

3

Linux / Re: New to Linux -- Not Clear On How to Install UFO AI

« on: July 14, 2010, 08:32:42 pm »

It's not a simple installation, you have to build the game from the bottom yourself.

If you have a 64bit environment, better download some files to doubleclick:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/ufoai/files/UFO_AI%202.x/2.3/ufoai-data_2.3_all.deb/download
http://sourceforge.net/projects/ufoai/files/UFO_AI%202.x/2.3/ufoai-common_2.3_amd64.deb/download
http://sourceforge.net/projects/ufoai/files/UFO_AI%202.x/2.3/ufoai_2.3_amd64.deb/download
http://sourceforge.net/projects/ufoai/files/UFO_AI%202.x/2.3/ufoai-music_2.3_all.deb/download

The Files have to be installed in the right order, hope I got it right. Perhaps you need to install other dependencies (let ubuntu do it for you), they should be all in the software repository with one exception. The newest sdl-mixer has to be used, or you will face this error: http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?topic=5052.0

You can extend your repository with a PPA, containing the newer sdl-mixer:

Code: [Select]

sudo add-apt-repository ppa:dnjl/games

4

Tactics / Re: Reaction Fire

« on: July 14, 2010, 08:05:05 pm »

I did, exactly that is the diff file, I posted.
You can open it with any text editor, it contains the file name, line number, old content and new content of every change.
But that are source code files, if you have installed the game the usual way, you don't have them. And you can do nothing with them anyway.

You have probably a ufo.exe, which you double click to run the game. All changes have to be in this file, but I can not produce it for you.

5

Linux / Re: undefined symbol: Mix_Init Ubuntu 10.04

« on: July 13, 2010, 07:58:27 pm »

If you don't mind using ppa: https://launchpad.net/~dnjl/+archive/games | ppa:dnjl/games

6

Tactics / Re: Reaction Fire

« on: July 13, 2010, 07:41:58 pm »

So there is no way to insert those lines into the respective files on an already installed (and loaded with savegames) version?

I hardly know anything about programming (or what a source actually is for that matter)
but won't the scripts for RF have to be somewhere?

Source code is the program in a (barely) human readable form, but not readable for the cpu. The program has to be compiled to machine readable instructions and then linked to all other instructions it may need.
The result is a binary file (ufo.exe for windows), which is not longer readable by (sane) humans AND is machine specific. One can not add or replace parts easily, because every byte is addressed by its exact position in the file. And RF logic is in the exe file.

I can compile the source code for my system (Ubuntu Linux 64bit with Intel Core 2 Quad cpu), but the result (which don't have a file name ending like exe) is unlikely to work on any other machine, not even an any other standard Ubuntu installation. I am not experienced enough to produce a binary, which will run on most machines, or even other operating systems like windows.

There are programming languages (like typical 'scripts') which are not compiled, but interpreted line after line to machine instructions on the fly. This is much slower (can be 100 times slower) and inefficient, not suitable for the core functions of a complex game like UFO:AI. So, no simple scripts to replace here.

7

Tactics / Re: Reaction Fire

« on: July 10, 2010, 11:33:46 pm »

If you ask this question, chances are high, you can not.
It is a patch for the source code.
You have to apply the patch to the source and compile the game yourself, to run it.

The patch is in tracker http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&aid=3027802&group_id=157793&atid=805244 . If one of the developers apply it and approve the changes to subversion, it will be in future versions.
But there is also a much larger patch, rewriting the whole reaction fire and parts of the combat system. It is not implemented since 4 months. Perhaps my changes will get approval faster, because changes are small and simple.

8

Tactics / Re: Reaction Fire

« on: July 10, 2010, 04:03:09 pm »

I'm finished with bug fixing.
changes:
- no recalculation of reaction TU, when enemy attacks faster
- shooting will trigger reaction targetting before the actual shoot, not after, allowing soldiers to react, who didn't see the enemy until he shoots
- draw duel is resolved with the right values, allowing faster reaction shooters to fire before enemy attacks
- after reaction shot took place, reaction TU is reset according to full TU cost of the reaction, giving the enemy new time to act


Test Scenario: New standard game, unchanged equipment (did not even give combat armor to every soldier), first mission, excavation terror

1st Turn: moving soldiers into position, switch one Sniper to pistol, all on snap shot rf
Team 1 ended round
Team 7's round started!
3 taman enter LOS of 4 of my soldiers, all stay in sight, one shooting, getting first rf
Team 7 ended round
Team 1's round started!
2nd Turn: don't move
Team 1 ended round
Team 7's round started!
aliens try to rush the soldiers, heavy fire from both sides, wounding one soldier severely (3 hp left) and multiple aliens
Team 7 ended round
Team 1's round started!
3rd Turn: stand the urge to save private Ryan and hold the line
Team 1 ended round
Team 7's round started!
- First alien try to chop wounded soldiers head off, getting shot while closing
[STATS] queue (Bjorn Assar) kills alien (Krrnaak Tkr Hruk) with Snap Shot of sniper_ammo
- Second alien aims bad and is shot in the back while retreating
[STATS] queue (Ahalya Baldwin) kills alien (Uonak Pt Mrlkuk) with Snap Shot of assault_ammo
- poor Pvt. Herring is out of luck
[STATS] alien (Krrnaak Kr Zrrosk) kills queue (Leza Herring) with Snap Shot of plaspistol_ammo
- and the reaction of a further attack of alien 3
[STATS] queue (James Ramirez) kills alien (Krrnaak Kr Zrrosk) with Snap Shot of pistol_ammo
Team 7 ended round

That was amazing, perhaps even too strong. On the other hand without RF all aliens, standing close to each other, could be killed on second turn with grenades or burst fire. Aliens hat bad luck and did only land very few hits with very many shots. So, it works for me.

9

Tactics / Re: Reaction Fire

« on: July 09, 2010, 09:23:33 pm »

I don't get this part at all. Giving back a negative value? Second formula that compares used weapons by both fighters involved?
Could you break it down again while using 2 example weapons, e.g. MGunner VS Plasmapistol-Alien + Pistolsoldier VS Plasmapistol-Alien?

I'll try.

James Bond (pistol snap shot) and John Rambo (MG full auto) are awaiting ET. ET came around the corner and enters both LOS with 20 TU left. Both aim at ET, Bond will fire at 20-(6/4) = 18,5 TU, next alien step. Rambo will fire at 20-(25/4) = 13,75 TU, allowing ET to move up to 4 further steps into his LOS, before reaction is triggered. Seems fine.
But ET does not take a walk, instead it fires at Bond with plasma pistol snap shot. Bonds reaction would take 6 TU, ET's attack equals at 6 TU, attacker shoots first on draw. Rambo is even slower, so no reaction before the shot. In theory, laser pistol snap shots with 5 TU should fire before ET's attack. There is a recalculation of the reaction TU, which should IMO not happen, if reaction TU is already set. Bond, probably taking the hit, will now fire at 20-(6-6)= 20 TU, next alien step if he survives. Rambo will fire at 20-(25-6) = 1 TU, giving up reaction without reason.
Now the actual attack takes place, ET loose 6 TU, 14 remaining. After attack, movement reaction will be triggered, allowing both soldiers to check their reaction. Bond, if he survived, will now react, if he gets the 30% chance. He will also react on every alien movement, as long ET remains visible and Bond has TU left.

Thats the theory, in fact it is even worse. The reaction fire code knows only, ET is about to attack, but has no clue, how this will happen. Instead of comparing with the alien attack TU (plasma pistol snap shot = 6), the code checks ET's reaction fire settings with the soldiers weapon. So, all calculations are completely fucked up and there is a good chance, the function can't calculate a result at all. Some examples:
- ET does not have reaction fire activated (why should it? its attacking) on right hand
- soldiers weapon cannot be used on reaction fire mode of ET (f.e. it uses the third fire mode for reaction, pistol has no third mode, mg cannot react with it) or the range is too far

Ancient coding rule #1 says "Thou shall return a value of -1, if no sane result can be calculated.". While there should be better ways nowadays, UFO:AI stand by the traditional rules. But there is no further check for this error, instead the -1 is interpreted as -1 TU attack and the RF code thinks, ET has become Lucky Luke. So not even Flash Gordons laser pistol snap shot stands a chance against the alien, shooting faster than its shadow. Miscalculated reaction TU for Bond is in fact 20-(6-(-1))=13, meaning he will not even react after the alien attack. No chance for Flash Gordon also, he has a reaction TU of 14.
RF only gets you a countershot at aliens using slower fire modes.

Why will that change anything? Won't my soldier just be "the guy who entered my (aliens) LOS with only 22 TUs, then took two steps and thus cracked my plasma-pistols RF threshold ..." ?

Not if you become Lucky Luke, because the reaction TU is reset on the attack.

Soldierstats influence the chance to hit.
that seems to be the most important part for the RF not happening. Good soldiers and precise wappons  improve that chance

That's right. But stats inflicts RF only indirect on rare occasions. Weapons are more important than soldier stats, the weapon has to be much faster than the alien weapon and you have to survive the alien shot.

I thinkthats the chance to hit with atlast one bullet, so burst mode improve the chances.

Could be. But you will rarely get a reaction fire check in burst mode, if AI follows its usual tactic "step in sight, fire at will, step out sight".
Which seems to be a great tactic.

And the player can do the same
The code works for both sides the same way

Right, if the player has red and understand the C source code, gets very detailed instructions or has a very good observation skill over a long time.
Not all players like to learn game rules this way.

you missed the part where the react "reaction TU" are not reset after a shot so the next shot takes place on the "next step"
There is no test for reaction fire after crouche and turne.

Both right. I didn't mention these, because they seem to be more clearly to the non-coding player.


Well, time to see the trunk.

10

Tactics / Re: Reaction Fire

« on: July 09, 2010, 03:07:34 am »

After examining the source of 2.3 some time, I've come to conclusions, that:
RF can only be used by right hand.
Mind or speed skills are meaningless for RF.
There are no random parts, RF is fully predictable (and thus avoidable by AI).
It's buggy. Badly.


RF will never happen, if:
1. RF is set to left hand
2. chance to hit is smaller than 30%
3. friendly fire possibility greater than 5% (depending on mental state higher)

RF will be triggered immediately, if:
1. target aimed at, while new enemy is moving or attacking in LOS (line of sight) OR enemy turn is ending
2. target is attacking with a fire mode, which uses more or equal TU than RF fire mode (buggy, won't work most time)


The intended logic for RF seems to be, that every soldier is aiming at a single target, while it is moving in his LOS. And when the target's TU drop below a certain number, he fires on every further move of the target. So every soldier has a reaction target and a reaction TU value. When reaction target is set (enters line of sight), reaction TU is set to [actual targets TU] - [rf fire mode TU] / 4.
If an alien enters LOS with 20 TU and the Soldier with assault rifle is in 3 shot rf mode (12 TU), reaction TU is 17. If the alien moves 2 squares, the soldier will open fire. The machine gunner on full auto will have a reaction TU of 14 on the alien.
If the alien moves out of sight and enters sight again with less TU, soldiers who spotted it first will open fire immediately. Also, if another enemy moves, execution of the reaction shot is performed on the spot (and hopefully also on the former, now deceased, target).

Now comes the buggy part. If the alien attacks with his crappy plasma pistol, the TU of the attack (for comparison with RF) is calculated by the same function, which calculates the TU of the RF. That's just plain wrong, because it checks the aliens rf mode instead of the actual attack. And this function is limited to the right hand. And there is a wrong parameter, the alien attack is checked with the reacting soldiers right hand weapon. So there are at least 3 reasons, why this results in an error nearly every time. The function gives back the number -1, but the error is not checked. Instead the remaining rf calculations will be based on an alien attacking with an -1 TU action. So the reacting soldier will lose the duel every time. Best part, now the reaction TU are recalculated on the formula [actual targets TU] - ([rf fire mode TU] - [targets fire mode TU]. With the miscalculated target attack value this results in 15 - (-1 - 12) = 2 TU. This means, the alien can move freely and even attacking multiple times, without triggering RF, as long the AI takes it out of line of sight in the end.


So, RF is flawed. Use any weapon, and RF won't be triggered. I'm not sure, if this TU recalculation on attack should happen at all.
I'm more into C# and .NET, but i will see the trunk code tomorrow and if the bug remains, try to fix it. Seems not too difficult.


Now, we are to discuss tactics here, are we?
In flawed 2.3, never act with more than one soldier in enemy sight. When entering enemy LOS, you can prevent RF by firing a snap shot, before moving in and burst aliens to bits. If you intend to use RF yourself, don't use aimed shots or full auto, better are snap shots or pistols. with 5 TU laser pistol shot, even the attacking bug would not extend the "free move" range to more than 3 squares.
If you feel lucky, try to use the same weapons than the aliens and win the RF duel.