76
Bugs prior to release 2.4 / Re: [32055] stunned alien bug
« on: September 04, 2010, 05:56:57 pm »
i noticed that you could stunned a alien two times, with stunned grenade, and get this victory and the game over.
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77
Bugs in older version (2.3.1) / Re: stunned aliens bug?
« on: September 04, 2010, 05:53:33 pm »
it's a feature. There are bug on trunk version with stunned alien but this is normal.
78
Coding / Re: the AI discussion
« on: September 03, 2010, 11:52:06 pm »
on the theme of alien cheaty vision. i don't care if you remove it. As a alien, i just follow my nose 'cause you human stinks.
@shaunc311, i read you say here are/was up to 10000 possible moves. i don't understand why. if each alien go 30 TU they have max 2*15*2*15=900 new possible positions each (in fact less cause here are corner that are too far away) on void map. I think you can prune many of this possibility.
I read the most of the wall discussion, so i will explain how true alien plays.
about moving alien
That's a basic in military alien, there are secured places and unsecured places. At the beginning, it's impossible to find human in a harvester. If we lose the advantage of god-vision (that was not god vision, that's alien advanced detection), you should make some map marking of where human bastards can be found and where they can't. it's just some probability... over a box. With that aliens will not have to look forward at each turn. Here should not be many level, to start with. 0% is i'm sure where is no enemy, cause i see i or cause i control all the access to go in (that's the funny thing to program), but it can be realy easy cause we alien arrive first so all the map could be set at 0%, then we see your dropship. it makes noise, heat and it stinks. Next round you put a 50% in all human accessible position. You force 0 in position where you see human are not, 100% where they stand.
We aliens have observed that if we loose, it's because human go at us.. so this is a good guess to improve (unvisible) human estimation by saying human are most likely to come at us than to go in opposite direction. Even an Ortnok beast understand this.
about fire
When we alien open fire, we have a goal. There a to kind of goal: to wound (*** the medikit) or to kill. The wound kind of fire should be used when reenforcement are available (so to say there is a living alien how can be here in 1 round).
There are optimized place to fire. before moving a alien you can make a map crossing number of fire, hit probability (staying and crouched, current AI ignore the fact that we can fire crouched) It's hard to teach an Ortnok that the more it walks, the less it fires. If we are on a hit and run fire, with that system you could go to quit cove, walk to get higher success rate, and retake cover.
If we are on suicidal mission, we can go to the best place to fire the best shot and praying not to be shot back.
I you allow us plan next round... we may do more sophisticate things.
about team playing
There is a fantastic pun in french how says "team's spirit, it's one spirit for one team". It explains how good French football team is. Alien can mimic this. And it's military basic too. alien associate when they are less than 5 boxes away AND whith a maximum number of participant (3 aliens/groups sounds good).
how work a group? (it remains me my military classes), the speed of the group is the speed of the slowest, the group try to move together. There is one leader with chose the targets and the (2) others shot at it until the human die. The good new it that those two alien will not have to call the think() function, computer friendly idee. The will just obey the order. And for us, Alien, orders are absolute. it remains me my military classes, i said.
As a cheat, it could be usefull for alien to see how wealthy are the human. it could allow us not to keep our own record of the number on damages needed to kill one human and how much the human already get. i know, medikit are human way of cheating.
i explain one other point, i previously said that some other alien could request support. My idee on the point is to alert a group of alien not to far, which are not engage in fight, to come quickly. To avoid human get used to set up traps, the alerted alien should refuse the support from time to time, or chose if he gets two alert from two distinct groups.
on sheevar
i just noticed someone say, hoho givind god-view to sheevar is ok. Don't forget that, we alien have hive spirit (not shure of translation). What one alien knows, all the aliens on all the galaxies know. If one Sheevar gets god view, we all get it.
on spides
Bloody AI makers, robots are expensive. as of rev 32055, spiders are fearless and run right in front of human, but don't attak cause they have no more TU. Now all the human rebels have plasma swords. The very first they do, is to destroy them, it costs them 2+7 TU. They can all keep on shooting. There are two solutions, first you give more TU to spiders or you don't send them as long as they can't make one attack.
on human learning technics
There are few things that can make alien adapts to the player. I think there are two kind of players, there are players how allow causalty and players how don't. if we can look in the savegame how much dead soldiers there have been (the count, the average and maybe the standard deviation ) we can guess if we have a player who will get frustred if aliens kill too much soldiers and restart the game. In this case, aliens should prefer suicide mission.
On the other hand, alien can spy human activity and politics. I think there are cases where trying to game over the player with a too much civilian loss is relevant. (i never get this, i just see it in translation strings).
--
i'm just giving ideas, don't know what the api is capable of.
@shaunc311, i read you say here are/was up to 10000 possible moves. i don't understand why. if each alien go 30 TU they have max 2*15*2*15=900 new possible positions each (in fact less cause here are corner that are too far away) on void map. I think you can prune many of this possibility.
I read the most of the wall discussion, so i will explain how true alien plays.
about moving alien
That's a basic in military alien, there are secured places and unsecured places. At the beginning, it's impossible to find human in a harvester. If we lose the advantage of god-vision (that was not god vision, that's alien advanced detection), you should make some map marking of where human bastards can be found and where they can't. it's just some probability... over a box. With that aliens will not have to look forward at each turn. Here should not be many level, to start with. 0% is i'm sure where is no enemy, cause i see i or cause i control all the access to go in (that's the funny thing to program), but it can be realy easy cause we alien arrive first so all the map could be set at 0%, then we see your dropship. it makes noise, heat and it stinks. Next round you put a 50% in all human accessible position. You force 0 in position where you see human are not, 100% where they stand.
We aliens have observed that if we loose, it's because human go at us.. so this is a good guess to improve (unvisible) human estimation by saying human are most likely to come at us than to go in opposite direction. Even an Ortnok beast understand this.
about fire
When we alien open fire, we have a goal. There a to kind of goal: to wound (*** the medikit) or to kill. The wound kind of fire should be used when reenforcement are available (so to say there is a living alien how can be here in 1 round).
There are optimized place to fire. before moving a alien you can make a map crossing number of fire, hit probability (staying and crouched, current AI ignore the fact that we can fire crouched) It's hard to teach an Ortnok that the more it walks, the less it fires. If we are on a hit and run fire, with that system you could go to quit cove, walk to get higher success rate, and retake cover.
If we are on suicidal mission, we can go to the best place to fire the best shot and praying not to be shot back.
I you allow us plan next round... we may do more sophisticate things.
about team playing
There is a fantastic pun in french how says "team's spirit, it's one spirit for one team". It explains how good French football team is. Alien can mimic this. And it's military basic too. alien associate when they are less than 5 boxes away AND whith a maximum number of participant (3 aliens/groups sounds good).
how work a group? (it remains me my military classes), the speed of the group is the speed of the slowest, the group try to move together. There is one leader with chose the targets and the (2) others shot at it until the human die. The good new it that those two alien will not have to call the think() function, computer friendly idee. The will just obey the order. And for us, Alien, orders are absolute. it remains me my military classes, i said.
As a cheat, it could be usefull for alien to see how wealthy are the human. it could allow us not to keep our own record of the number on damages needed to kill one human and how much the human already get. i know, medikit are human way of cheating.
i explain one other point, i previously said that some other alien could request support. My idee on the point is to alert a group of alien not to far, which are not engage in fight, to come quickly. To avoid human get used to set up traps, the alerted alien should refuse the support from time to time, or chose if he gets two alert from two distinct groups.
on sheevar
i just noticed someone say, hoho givind god-view to sheevar is ok. Don't forget that, we alien have hive spirit (not shure of translation). What one alien knows, all the aliens on all the galaxies know. If one Sheevar gets god view, we all get it.
on spides
Bloody AI makers, robots are expensive. as of rev 32055, spiders are fearless and run right in front of human, but don't attak cause they have no more TU. Now all the human rebels have plasma swords. The very first they do, is to destroy them, it costs them 2+7 TU. They can all keep on shooting. There are two solutions, first you give more TU to spiders or you don't send them as long as they can't make one attack.
on human learning technics
There are few things that can make alien adapts to the player. I think there are two kind of players, there are players how allow causalty and players how don't. if we can look in the savegame how much dead soldiers there have been (the count, the average and maybe the standard deviation ) we can guess if we have a player who will get frustred if aliens kill too much soldiers and restart the game. In this case, aliens should prefer suicide mission.
On the other hand, alien can spy human activity and politics. I think there are cases where trying to game over the player with a too much civilian loss is relevant. (i never get this, i just see it in translation strings).
--
i'm just giving ideas, don't know what the api is capable of.
79
Bugs prior to release 2.4 / Re: [32055] sometimes production page exit on failed assert
« on: September 02, 2010, 07:03:35 pm »
is the patch committed in the trunk ? i can't get it through svn.
EDIT: get the patch trough tracker. It works for me.
EDIT: get the patch trough tracker. It works for me.
80
Bugs prior to release 2.4 / Re: [32055] sometimes production page exit on failed assert
« on: September 02, 2010, 02:51:48 am »
how to reproduce
- load the savegame
- open Australian base (there is only one)
- open production panel
- click on aircraft tab
- it crash immediatly
81
Bugs prior to release 2.4 / [32055] sometimes production page exit on failed assert
« on: September 02, 2010, 02:06:46 am »it says "assert aircraftBase failed".
Code: [Select]
ufo: src/client/campaign/cp_produce_callbacks.c :160 : PR_UpdateProductionList: L'assertion << aircraftBase >> a ?chou?.
./ufo(Sys_Backtrace+0x1f)[./src/ports/unix/unix_main.c:394 Sys_Backtrace()]
./ufo[./src/ports/unix/unix_main.c:415 Sys_Signal()]
[0x772400]
/lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6(abort+0x182)[??:0 ??()]
/lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6(__assert_fail+0xf8)[??:0 ??()]
./ufo[./src/client/campaign/cp_produce_callbacks.c:161 PR_UpdateProductionList()]
./ufo[./src/client/campaign/cp_produce_callbacks.c:518 PR_ProductionType_f()]
./ufo(Cmd_ExecuteString+0xcb)[./src/common/cmd.c:990 Cmd_ExecuteString()]
./ufo(Cbuf_Execute+0x162)[./src/common/cmd.c:242 Cbuf_Execute()]
./ufo[./src/client/cl_main.c:1127 CL_SendCommand()]
./ufo(CL_Frame+0xe2)[./src/client/cl_main.c:1258 CL_Frame()]
./ufo[./src/common/common.c:1200 tick_timer()]
./ufo(Qcommon_Frame+0x7b)[./src/common/common.c:1348 Qcommon_Frame()]
./ufo(main+0x5c)[./src/ports/linux/linux_main.c:54 main()]
/lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6(__libc_start_main+0xe6)[??:0 ??()]
./ufo[??:0 _start()]
./ufo(Sys_Backtrace+0x1f)[./src/ports/unix/unix_main.c:394 Sys_Backtrace()]
./ufo(Sys_Error+0x22)[./src/ports/unix/unix_main.c:87 Sys_Error()]
./ufo(Sys_InitSignals+0x0)[./src/ports/unix/unix_main.c:422 Sys_InitSignals()]
[0x772400]
/lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6(abort+0x182)[??:0 ??()]
/lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6(__assert_fail+0xf8)[??:0 ??()]
./ufo[./src/client/campaign/cp_produce_callbacks.c:161 PR_UpdateProductionList()]
./ufo[./src/client/campaign/cp_produce_callbacks.c:518 PR_ProductionType_f()]
./ufo(Cmd_ExecuteString+0xcb)[./src/common/cmd.c:990 Cmd_ExecuteString()]
./ufo(Cbuf_Execute+0x162)[./src/common/cmd.c:242 Cbuf_Execute()]
./ufo[./src/client/cl_main.c:1127 CL_SendCommand()]
./ufo(CL_Frame+0xe2)[./src/client/cl_main.c:1258 CL_Frame()]
./ufo[./src/common/common.c:1200 tick_timer()]
./ufo(Qcommon_Frame+0x7b)[./src/common/common.c:1348 Qcommon_Frame()]
./ufo(main+0x5c)[./src/ports/linux/linux_main.c:54 main()]
/lib/tls/i686/cmov/libc.so.6(__libc_start_main+0xe6)[??:0 ??()]
./ufo[??:0 _start()]
Error: Received signal 6.
82
Bugs prior to release 2.4 / [32055] unvisible weapons on the floor.
« on: August 30, 2010, 07:32:40 pm »
if you drop a weapon a and move your soldiers in order to don't look at it anymore, at next turn, the weapon disappears. That's ok. But if you look back at it, they are no more re-drawn, and thus become unvisible. if you remember were the weapons was, you can still pick it up.
Code: [Select]
Linux hp 2.6.32-24-generic #41-Ubuntu SMP Thu Aug 19 01:12:52 UTC 2010 i686 GNU/Linux
VGA compatible controller: ATI Technologies Inc M92 [Mobility Radeon HD 4500 Series]
83
Bugs prior to release 2.4 / Re: +hills and +city bad graphics display
« on: August 30, 2010, 12:35:31 pm »
i did not pretend so.
i think you should report about your machine graphic card and other spec.
i think you should report about your machine graphic card and other spec.
84
Bugs prior to release 2.4 / Re: [32025] can see -1 alien
« on: August 30, 2010, 03:08:20 am »
i think it happens every time you stunned an alien, next turn if you move the soldier, visible alien count is decrease two time. you can reset to "zero" by looking the stunned alien.
85
Bugs prior to release 2.4 / Re: [32055] stunned alien bug
« on: August 30, 2010, 02:33:47 am »
i think killing a alien who was already stunned is the key of this bug. 255 looks like unsigned issue for -1 as i suspect "remaining aliens" are computed from killed alien minus stunned alien.
If you allow to kill stunned alien, you have to increment killed alien count AND decrement stunned alien count.
Did i good guess?
If you allow to kill stunned alien, you have to increment killed alien count AND decrement stunned alien count.
Did i good guess?
86
Bugs prior to release 2.4 / [32055] stunned alien bug
« on: August 30, 2010, 01:57:30 am »
to get great improvement, we have to go through some bugs.
what happen: 255 aliens were rescaped from a mission i won.
what is noticeable is that i stunned an ortnok, then the very last remaining ortnok with the stun staff, the orthnok stay alert, then shot a burst of plasma riffle at this ortnok (whom die grrr) and get the following strange victory, immediatly followed by game over message.
what happen: 255 aliens were rescaped from a mission i won.
what is noticeable is that i stunned an ortnok, then the very last remaining ortnok with the stun staff, the orthnok stay alert, then shot a burst of plasma riffle at this ortnok (whom die grrr) and get the following strange victory, immediatly followed by game over message.
87
Bugs prior to release 2.4 / Re: +hills and +city bad graphics display
« on: August 30, 2010, 01:56:57 am »
you make me think of that.
88
Tactics / Re: Need help with the map "Brücke" ("Bridge")
« on: August 30, 2010, 12:00:22 am »
i thinking a point, i think it's a point new player does not take in account.
You make a good thing localising the place you can hide. But what you need to do is not the place you will be in security but place you may not go cause you're in sight AND in range of aliens. Then you look were you can effectively go with your time unit.
The most difficult thing is to guess if the alien will track you or a civilian.
You make a good thing localising the place you can hide. But what you need to do is not the place you will be in security but place you may not go cause you're in sight AND in range of aliens. Then you look were you can effectively go with your time unit.
The most difficult thing is to guess if the alien will track you or a civilian.
89
Tactics / Re: What's your favorite weapon?
« on: August 29, 2010, 11:52:16 pm »
those who like sure kill may love plasma sword in close combat. they never mention it! But it's the only weapon i never see failed.
grenade are great cause of their unique ballistic and rocket launcher cause aliens asked my to stop to use it. To give more details, a assume that i switch rocket launcher for flamer in big city stairs.
explosive mustn't be overused in small pieces
grenade are great cause of their unique ballistic and rocket launcher cause aliens asked my to stop to use it. To give more details, a assume that i switch rocket launcher for flamer in big city stairs.
explosive mustn't be overused in small pieces
90
Tactics / Re: Need help with the map "Brücke" ("Bridge")
« on: August 29, 2010, 11:31:44 pm »
it's hard to help you as no one use the same mix of weapons.
you stated where is no cover in the area enclosed by the wood palissade.. i avoid to step in, not because of the cover, but because you won't have anything to shoot but get troubles to find an issue with alien shooting you from both side.
you may have experimented it?
What i do with my troups, is to split in two groups, one to progress strait in the north, again the palissade, and the second to secure the passage, i mean distract (or kill, or stunned) the 2 aliens in the ufo.
on this map, having a good rocket launcher is effective. One shot, one death, don't worry if the rocket explode on a object behind the alien, it works too. If alien get armor, you may add a snipper to finish at long range.
in average, aliens suffer big loss at 3td or 4th turn, but can a alien actually suffer... i wonder.
you stated where is no cover in the area enclosed by the wood palissade.. i avoid to step in, not because of the cover, but because you won't have anything to shoot but get troubles to find an issue with alien shooting you from both side.
you may have experimented it?
What i do with my troups, is to split in two groups, one to progress strait in the north, again the palissade, and the second to secure the passage, i mean distract (or kill, or stunned) the 2 aliens in the ufo.
on this map, having a good rocket launcher is effective. One shot, one death, don't worry if the rocket explode on a object behind the alien, it works too. If alien get armor, you may add a snipper to finish at long range.
in average, aliens suffer big loss at 3td or 4th turn, but can a alien actually suffer... i wonder.