UFO:Alien Invasion

General => Discussion => Topic started by: Schilcote on July 03, 2014, 10:53:39 pm

Title: Allow bases without dropship hangars to build and transfer dropships?
Post by: Schilcote on July 03, 2014, 10:53:39 pm
My base-building strategy is to specialize the first two; the starting base gets lots of labs, and the second is my factory. All my science and manufacturing are done at those two, and the rest are completely devoted to housing soldiers and intercepting UFOs.

The problem with this is that my manufacturing base (which will, of course, inevitably have those annoying un-buildable sqares- what game-design purpose do those serve?) has no room for dropship hangars. I fit one interceptor hangar in, and just transfer the interceptors to one of the dedicated combat bases as I build them.

It'd be great if instead of just refusing to build dropships without hangars to put them in, it'd just show you the "you have no room for this" dialouge box like it does when you already have an aircraft in all your hangars.
Title: Re: Allow bases without dropship hangars to build and transfer dropships?
Post by: Duke on July 03, 2014, 11:51:01 pm
annoying un-buildable sqares- what game-design purpose do those serve?)
I think they are there to keep players from using a standard layout for their bases.

Btw what is the main reason for you to prefer centralizing research ? It's less efficient at least for living quarters...
Title: Re: Allow bases without dropship hangars to build and transfer dropships?
Post by: Schilcote on July 03, 2014, 11:57:18 pm
Is it?

I do it mainly just 'cos I want to get as much research as I can done in the beginning, so the first base ends up being entirely labs, and then I really just don't need to build labs in any other bases afterwards.
Title: Re: Allow bases without dropship hangars to build and transfer dropships?
Post by: Duke on July 04, 2014, 12:44:33 am
It is. Look at the unused living quarters in your 'fighting bases'.

Also, most players want to build as many bases and as fast as they can afford. It is said to be better for nation happiness.
Title: Re: Allow bases without dropship hangars to build and transfer dropships?
Post by: Sarin on July 04, 2014, 03:01:00 am
I tend to centralize research too, although I might try building additional labs in my last base next time instead of more workshops.

My usual: Main base has 4 labs, 3 living quarters, houses 40 scientists, 16 soldiers (main team and replacements for injured ones) and 3 pilots (dropship and two interceptors), second is manufacturing base right next to it with 5 workshops, 3 quarters, 50 engineers and team of soldiers for defense, along with some base defenses. This provides AAA for main base and does all the disassembly. One dropship and one interceptor hangar are there just for manufacturing purposes. Second and third base are identical, 2x living quarters, 2x workshop for keeping ammo supply up (I spam EP ammo at late game), 2x interceptor, 1x dropship and usual complement of troops and pilots. There's enough space left for AAA. Workshop is the only base without radar. Using this and three radar sites, I can get good coverage of most populated landmass.
Title: Re: Allow bases without dropship hangars to build and transfer dropships?
Post by: geever on July 04, 2014, 06:44:46 pm
Back to the point:

The problem with this is that my manufacturing base (which will, of course, inevitably have those annoying un-buildable sqares- what game-design purpose do those serve?) has no room for dropship hangars. I fit one interceptor hangar in, and just transfer the interceptors to one of the dedicated combat bases as I build them.

It'd be great if instead of just refusing to build dropships without hangars to put them in, it'd just show you the "you have no room for this" dialouge box like it does when you already have an aircraft in all your hangars.

Actually I think it should work the other way. The game should not allow to build an aircraft if there are hangars but there is no room in the hangars and should not allow to move or buy any aircraft into a hangar that is used for producing one.

The point is that an aircraft is too big to be assembled in the workshop (as it has all the machines and so) and you need a free hangar to make them.

-geever
Title: Re: Allow bases without dropship hangars to build and transfer dropships?
Post by: Schilcote on July 04, 2014, 07:34:25 pm
Well, fair enough then.

But in that case, maybe we should have a way to clear out those unbuildable sections?
Title: Re: Allow bases without dropship hangars to build and transfer dropships?
Post by: geever on July 04, 2014, 07:47:11 pm
But in that case, maybe we should have a way to clear out those unbuildable sections?

Nope.

-geever
Title: Re: Allow bases without dropship hangars to build and transfer dropships?
Post by: TallTroll on July 04, 2014, 10:37:57 pm
The whole point of unbuildable squares is to make extra bases generally less efficient. There has been talk of a 2 level base system, where bases have upper and lower layers (and hence more total spaces) to allow for greater base building gameplay
Title: Re: Allow bases without dropship hangars to build and transfer dropships?
Post by: Flying Steel on July 05, 2014, 02:09:43 am
Yeah, I think unbuildable tiles is a feature deserving of removal or at least made optional if it isn't already.

They annoy more than they challenge.
Title: Re: Allow bases without dropship hangars to build and transfer dropships?
Post by: Noordung on July 05, 2014, 10:40:59 am
save before you build new base. if you have too much rock load and build base again... reload and reply until you are happy with result.
Title: Re: Allow bases without dropship hangars to build and transfer dropships?
Post by: Flying Steel on July 05, 2014, 04:12:17 pm
save before you build new base. if you have too much rock load and build base again... reload and reply until you are happy with result.

If abusing the save system is the way to deal with a feature, then there may be something wrong with said feature.
Title: Re: Allow bases without dropship hangars to build and transfer dropships?
Post by: geever on July 05, 2014, 06:16:36 pm
If abusing the save system is the way to deal with a feature, then there may be something wrong with said feature.

Abusing the save system is not the way to deal with a feature, it's just what cheaters do.

Noordung, thanks for the bugreport, I'm thinking about how to fix that exploit...

-geever
Title: Re: Allow bases without dropship hangars to build and transfer dropships?
Post by: Noordung on July 05, 2014, 07:30:43 pm
i play the game the way i want. so im a chearter. no problem with that.
Title: Re: Allow bases without dropship hangars to build and transfer dropships?
Post by: cevaralien on July 06, 2014, 02:44:37 am
Abusing the save system is not the way to deal with a feature, it's just what cheaters do.

Noordung, thanks for the bugreport, I'm thinking about how to fix that exploit...

-geever

But is true, that feature don´t makes the game more difficult. If you can dig all the base, why leave a "rock" there? Another thing, why don´t choose the initial entrance?

Maybe the answer is that the locations are old bases taken from UN?
Title: Re: Allow bases without dropship hangars to build and transfer dropships?
Post by: Flying Steel on July 06, 2014, 06:41:57 am
Abusing the save system is not the way to deal with a feature, it's just what cheaters do.
Noordung, thanks for the bugreport, I'm thinking about how to fix that exploit...

-geever
Dean of User Experience Studies, Darth Vader Imperial Software Academy


While you are at it, think of a fix for the "corrupt unbuildable tiles appear randomly and inexplicably in new bases" bug.
Title: Re: Allow bases without dropship hangars to build and transfer dropships?
Post by: geever on July 06, 2014, 10:59:41 am
While you are at it, think of a fix for the "corrupt unbuildable tiles appear randomly and inexplicably in new bases" bug.

It is not a bug -> issue closed.

Am I fast? :)

-geever
Title: Re: Allow bases without dropship hangars to build and transfer dropships?
Post by: anonymissimus on July 06, 2014, 05:01:28 pm
These unbuildable squares can be used for base defense missions. They prevent aliens from moving into the buildings on their other sides.
That's the only useful thing about them.
Title: Re: Allow bases without dropship hangars to build and transfer dropships?
Post by: Flying Steel on July 09, 2014, 05:11:31 pm
Even though it was not trying to, this analysis makes a good case for removing unbuildables to free up more space:

http://ufoai.org/wiki/Proposals/Larger_Bases
Title: Re: Allow bases without dropship hangars to build and transfer dropships?
Post by: Noordung on July 09, 2014, 06:47:14 pm
nice suggestion. obvious radar also need to be on top level. ;D
Title: Re: Allow bases without dropship hangars to build and transfer dropships?
Post by: cevaralien on July 10, 2014, 04:12:20 am
Well... i don´t belive that all bases must be larger ones. Normally, i build my main base as a research complex and ground forces base. A second one, very few kilometers away, is the workshop base. I build 5 workshops, 3 living quarters and the rest of the installations except defenses and radar (no radar needed anyway, because the base is "sticked" to the main one. An UFO storage is near too.

Two more bases as Air Bases; one in Venezuela (i can cover North and South America whit Saracens) and China (covering Australia, Pacific, north Russia, India...). The rest are radar bases, with only radar, command center, energy plant.

The game is very flexible, so, is matter of think about the best solution for a game or how do you want to play. For example, you can build a main base only with soldiers, another one with research/workshops, or maybe a little one with the basics plus storage, living quarters and labs...
Title: Re: Allow bases without dropship hangars to build and transfer dropships?
Post by: Noordung on July 10, 2014, 09:35:51 am
there could be new type of "base" - air base. or hangar. baisicly just hangar for one interceptor. like sam site or radar... besides i think we should also get advanced radars once ufo radar is researched.
Title: Re: Allow bases without dropship hangars to build and transfer dropships?
Post by: Flying Steel on July 10, 2014, 04:36:18 pm
Well... i don´t believe that all bases must be larger ones.

I wasn't actually suggesting that bases should enlarged. But the arguments that proposal made for doubling the size of bases, also make a good case for removing unbuildables (to free up useable space).

In other words, if bases are already too space-constrained as that proposal argued, then unbuildables are just adding to the problem.