UFO:Alien Invasion
Development => Artwork => Topic started by: headdie on May 09, 2012, 01:11:04 am
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My hi thread (http://ufoai.org/forum/index.php/topic,6629.0.html) yielded this
Cool stuff. Some of your ships look like they might work as our Hyperion-class Armed Dropship (http://ufoai.org/wiki/index.php/Aircraft/Hyperion-class_Armed_Dropship). It's a mixed dropship/fighter we plan to include but lack a model. It wouldn't require any animation, just a texture as well as some changes to the model to create an "interior". I'm thinknig the Pitbull or Tornado crafts in your deviartart gallery look like possible matches.
"I'm thinknig the Pitbull or Tornado crafts in your deviartart gallery look like possible matches." But if you've got another idea, go for it. Key is that it should be able to be a fighter jet that can store 5 or so soldiers as well. Oh, and it should if possible have vertical take off and landing.
To this end I have opened this thread to explore this possibility.
Unfortunately while the Pitbull probably has a better form to work with on this, it is a product of someone else's concept art which will complicate licencing as the concept art was for a company iirc.
Leaving the Tornado
(http://img804.imageshack.us/img804/2817/tornad1.th.png) (http://img804.imageshack.us/i/tornad1.png/)
To provide background on the model it is an original concept by myself, intended as a medium aero/space fighter with 4 light cannons mounted in the structure top centre of the model, a medium cannon mount lower centre circular structure on the front view and missiles mounted in the tall rectangularish structures either side of centre mass. Engines in the rear rectangular structures which join the wings to the main fuselage.
Now for a few ideas.
The changes to make will depend mostly on how we arrange the cargo bay, do we have a "traditional" rear cargo door for deployment or use Firebird style side cargo doors, or a variation where they open forwards where the missiles are now?
For the engine layout as this is a terrestrial tech VTOL craft it will probably want the engine structures I have near the front making more prominent and adding vertical thrusters to the rear engines.
Lastly weapons how does the team see this thing armed, will it be similar to the Stiletto? or less powerful?perhaps 2 light and a medium weapon mount with the medium where the light cannons are in the original concept and new mounting points for the lights on the centre fuselage somewhere?
Also as is demonstrated in the attached model is that the lower hull is not currently brilliant for this roll and will need filling in. what are everyone's thoughts on that do I fill it in following the existing silhouette or change it moving everything towards the rear for example.
What are everyone's opinions on this?
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The changes to make will depend mostly on how we arrange the cargo bay, do we have a "traditional" rear cargo door for deployment or use Firebird style side cargo doors, or a variation where they open forwards where the missiles are now?
If this does not conflict with the votl engines, I would favor the side doors, because it gives better possibilities in tactical combat. Having the door at the front sounds interesting, too. This would give a more uniqe touch.
Lastly weapons how does the team see this thing armed, will it be similar to the Stiletto? or less powerful?perhaps 2 light and a medium weapon mount with the medium where the light cannons are in the original concept and new mounting points for the lights on the centre fuselage somewhere?
The hyperion is supposed to be some early, human-tech aircraft. Although armed, it is still a dropship. So it should be able to bring a Scout UFO down and assist the interceptors when dealing with bigger UFO´s. Maybe two slots for whatever weapons?
Btw, none of the existing aircraft models does show its weapons.
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Side doors should not interfere with the engine layout as the main engines are right at the back and the forward engines are currently little recesses where the forward fuselage widens into the main section. The only issue might be the wings, though an idea that has just come to me would be to fold the wings in some way.
While weapons are not shown I like it to be so that you can look at something like this and be able to see where important things are like engines and on combat craft where weapon points are, even if it's just a bulge where a cannon mount ends for example, it is far from critical but helps detailing the thing in a meaningful manner.
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Leaving the Tornado
(http://img804.imageshack.us/img804/2817/tornad1.th.png) (http://img804.imageshack.us/i/tornad1.png/)
Sweet, that was my favorite. I really like the unique nose on it.
The changes to make will depend mostly on how we arrange the cargo bay, do we have a "traditional" rear cargo door for deployment or use Firebird style side cargo doors, or a variation where they open forwards where the missiles are now?
Your call.
For the engine layout as this is a terrestrial tech VTOL craft it will probably want the engine structures I have near the front making more prominent and adding vertical thrusters to the rear engines.
Sounds good.
Lastly weapons how does the team see this thing armed, will it be similar to the Stiletto? or less powerful?perhaps 2 light and a medium weapon mount with the medium where the light cannons are in the original concept and new mounting points for the lights on the centre fuselage somewhere?
The stilleto -- probably the firepower equivalent of the hyperion -- has two medium and one small weapon mount. I think we should aim for that and no more with the hyperion, which means we have three slots to work with (2 light and one medium is fine as well). Where you put them is you're call, I think. You could mimic the stilleto's layout by making the cannons two medium mounts over the back, then putting a little mount under the nose for a light mount.
Also as is demonstrated in the attached model is that the lower hull is not currently brilliant for this roll and will need filling in. what are everyone's thoughts on that do I fill it in following the existing silhouette or change it moving everything towards the rear for example.
I think either way could work well. The only thing I'm concerned about, though, is making sure the soldiers can exit with plenty of headspace. Maybe that means not having them exit under the wings. However, if your concept is for this to be large enough for the soldier to walk comfortably under the wing, it could be a nice tactical element -- exit with cover from enemy positions up high in dense areas.
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I should stop getting distracted and leaving posts unfinished. :(
I was just looking at our existing interceptor models and noticed they show nothing about their weaponry. Looks somewhat naked that way. The way you suppose (giving the beholder an idea about where the weapons are, without revealing too much detail) is much better.
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I should stop getting distracted and leaving posts unfinished. :(
I know that one all too well mate ;)
and time for a little update with pretty renders.
Outside
(http://img690.imageshack.us/img690/4213/sidedo1.th.png) (http://img690.imageshack.us/i/sidedo1.png/)
***the transparency in the canopy is for rendering purposes, for simplicity of the model it will probably just be a solid "glass" colour come final release to reduce the model load on the game***
Troop Bay
(http://img444.imageshack.us/img444/6716/sidedo2.th.png) (http://img444.imageshack.us/i/sidedo2.png/)
I downloaded the male soldier mesh from the git repository for scale purposes.
I am currently experimenting with the side door version as i think it has the most promise.
Believe it or not i have got problems with a oversized troop bay, scaled so that the pilots are justers in terms of fitting in the cockpit, the area i had in mind for the troop bay could have fit 8-12+ soldiers in it :o
By introducing benches, resizing the main fuselage down to about 70% of its original width and placing a pillar down the centre I finally have a 6-8 seater.
To be honest I think the narrowing of the hull has made the lines work much better as well so winner all round imho
still to do
* Join the passenger bay mesh to the rest of the hull
* Tidy up some nasty geometry I was hiding with smoothing
* UVmap and Texture (blegh not my favourite part of modelling)
As always feedback, suggestions and comments welcome
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I think it´s great. Just hope it is not getting too big.
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I think it´s great. Just hope it is not getting too big.
yer I am a bit worried about that myself, does anyone have or know where I can grab a copy of the Firebird that I can directly import into blender for comparison? I am struggling to find one :(
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Hi headdie :)
Good to get some help.
Attached is the firebird like requested:
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I hope you are aware that we need the roof to be separated from the rest (to be able to levelflag it and look inside the dropship in-game).
Also in v2.4+ we are using 2 different models showing different aircraft depending on their status (in-transit/landed).
A lowpoly version of the dropship for the geoscape would be needed also (with a 256x256 texture)...
Our model renderer supports glowmaps, specmaps and normalmaps (with height encoding in the alpha channel) as well btw 8)
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The actual model can be scaled before exporting. The real question is whether the bay area is too big, and I'm afraid a 6-8 person bay might be too much for this particular dropship. Attached are a couple ideas for how you might shrink it without disturbing the overall shape of your craft too much.
Another thing to keep in mind when scaling is that you'll want the hull and doors to "fit" our grid system as best as possible. This is something that will likely take some trial and error, exporting the MD2 and trying it out in-game. If you need help with that, feel free to attach an MD2 or OBJ and some of us more experienced with the maps can try it out.
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I seem to recall having an old model or two that might work...will have to check.
Headdie is on this, but it wouldn't hurt to have a backup, just in case..
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Many thanks MCR that has helped greatly, texturing is my big weakness atm so it might just be supplied with the base map and possibly a glow map.
I plan to try and learn how to do a start to finish job myself, but I will be sure to ask questions when I hit the inevitable, usually with my hard head.
I seem to recall having an old model or two that might work...will have to check.
Headdie is on this, but it wouldn't hurt to have a backup, just in case..
Ohhh ye of little faith ;)
In all seriousness might be a good idea, though I plan to post the model soon as a community backup, especially given the progress below.
(http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/3282/sideba1.th.png) (http://img214.imageshack.us/i/sideba1.png/)
Based on the side by side I reduced the model size by about 25%, shunted the engines forward a little and moved the cockpit back a little
(http://img823.imageshack.us/img823/4628/si8a891.th.png) (http://img823.imageshack.us/i/si8a891.png/)
Also I made the bay doors much wider so that it corresponds with the firebird
(http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/5289/sidedo4.th.png) (http://img232.imageshack.us/i/sidedo4.png/)
lastly I trashed the old troop bay and made a much simpler box one extruded where needed with completely open sides, the bay is now a solid 4 person or one 2x2 UGV due to the size of the bay and if needed it can easily be expanded due to its shape.
My next potential issue with the size is the overall width, a potential fix I am thinking of is to partially fold the wings but H-Hour initially commented about the wings being useful for cover and I would like to run with that idea, especially given the squad size deployable so any other ways to do it are very welcome.
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Idea for width below. Wings would still provide cover outside the cover doors.
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I should also add that our model format doesn't support transparency in the model, so the cockpit can't have proper windows. That said, if you want to build the cockpit interior, in the future if we ever support transparency we'll have the model ready to go.
If you can properly unwrap and create a base texture for your craft, I can work on finishin the texture off. Similar division of labor was done on the new stilleto model (http://ufoai.org/forum/index.php/topic,5484.msg45865.html#msg45865).
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I like the idea for the wings/engines suggestion will probably give the ship a more aggressive look.
On the transparency I think I mentioned it was used just for rendering show off, mostly to show the pilots in position but also it looks cool with only a few seconds work, for the final release.
I was thinking about including part or all of the canopy in the roof cutaway so might do a basic cockpit interior anyway for that.
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If you need help with that, feel free to attach an MD2 or OBJ and some of us more experienced with the maps can try it out.
:P
From looking at the last pic (hyperion next to the firebird) I would think the size is fine.
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From looking at the last pic (hyperion next to the firebird) I would think the size is fine.
Different 3D programs often import to different scales and then don't necessarily export the same way. The scale will still need to be checked in-game, especially to test how the interior (soldier cabin) lines up to the map grid. We will need to make sure it fits 2x2 grids and not too much extra space on either side so the player is not confused.
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:P
From looking at the last pic (hyperion next to the firebird) I would think the size is fine.
Currently though the hyperion is a tad longer it is about twice the width with the wings, but then they could be justified in the additional role as a combat craft so would need the extra control surface, the main body is similar in width to the Firebird's, it's just going to take up more landing space in the mission maps so something to think about.
also progress
(http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/2426/si8e891.th.png) (http://img20.imageshack.us/i/si8e891.png/)
ironed out most of the geometry in the first half of the craft, the nose has changed shape slightly as a result but i dont think it's lost the general spirit. this will probably be the last human eye view of the craft as I am now focusing on the top and aft half geometry which cant be seen too well from the ground
(http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/9533/sic82a1.th.png) (http://img33.imageshack.us/i/sic82a1.png/)
Less dramatic but I think shows the current scale nicely and just how horrible the back half of this thing is and as this will be the most common view of the craft it needs fixing.
For reference the red light is where the troop bay doors are
Different 3D programs often import to different scales and then don't necessarily export the same way. The scale will still need to be checked in-game, especially to test how the interior (soldier cabin) lines up to the map grid. We will need to make sure it fits 2x2 grids and not too much extra space on either side so the player is not confused.
indeed, I have tried to keep the Hyperion relative to the Firebird model so hopefully when the model is scaled to fit the troop bay to a 2x2 size in game the Hyperion will take up the same amount of space as indicated above
if you want a height comparison
(http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/3748/si92241.th.png) (http://img99.imageshack.us/i/si92241.png/)
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... Currently though the hyperion is a tad longer it is about twice the width with the wings ...
This would result in the same size as the actual raptor dropship model, smaller than the herakles lifter. I think this would be fine.
Of course, as H-Hour said, we will need testing.
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Shouldn't it be fine as long as it fits inside the hangar?
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That is a good point Nutter.
If it doesn't fit I could do a folded wing version like you see on aircraft carriers to be used in base defence missions so long as the game will support it.
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Shouldn't it be fine as long as it fits inside the hangar?
Actually more than one of the existing Phalanx aircraft would not fit into the hangar map. :-[
The Firebird model does, but its wings always scratch the hangar walls when landing. The Herakles has nearly 3 times the width of the Firebird.
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Note that dropships will get a 2x2 hangar building once Larger Bases (http://ufoai.org/wiki/index.php/Proposals/Larger_Bases) is implemented.
-geever
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interesting, the multi level proposal looks good, and the Hyperion requiring a 2x2 hanger would be something for the player to consider as with the same space you could house a Firebird and a Saracen, though maintain the two would probably cost more.
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Heres what I have ATM...results of soem of my experimentation:
I invision something liek a very moderns osprey:
http://www.military-today.com/helicopters/bellboeing_v_22_osprey_l2.jpg
or hte VTOL from Crysis (with doos on the sides)
http://images.wikia.com/halofanon/images/b/b7/US_VTOL.jpg
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Just by the way, something's been nagging me for a while: It just me or are the wings really spindly?
I keep feeling like a proper sneeze in their general direction would rip them off.
Now I got that off my mind:
If it doesn't fit I could do a folded wing version like you see on aircraft carriers to be used in base defence missions so long as the game will support it.
If you let the troops climb on top of the thing, the folding wings could also be used as impromptu cover during hot landings.
It's something that occurred to me while my troops were getting incinerated all around their dropship by a few well spawned Tamans(Most of them, anyway) a level above.
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Just by the way, something's been nagging me for a while: It just me or are the wings really spindly?
I keep feeling like a proper sneeze in their general direction would rip them off.
compared to the Firebird the wings on this are similar thickness in relation to overall height.
Now I got that off my mind:
If you let the troops climb on top of the thing, the folding wings could also be used as impromptu cover during hot landings.
It's something that occurred to me while my troops were getting incinerated all around their dropship by a few well spawned Tamans(Most of them, anyway) a level above.
One of the things H-Hour commented about was that with the wings like they are disembarking troops could use them for cover from elevated fire.
The folding wings concept was an idea to take into account that it might not fit inside a large hanger for base missions, I might still do a folded version as a stopgap until the base code can be altered.
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The folding wings concept was an idea to take into account that it might not fit inside a large hanger for base missions, I might still do a folded version as a stopgap until the base code can be altered.
The dropships and interceptors lift off when a base is attacked, they are not shown in the mission. Not sure if it is intented to change this.
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The dropships and interceptors lift off when a base is attacked, they are not shown in the mission. Not sure if it is intented to change this.
Dropships and Interceptors could be lift off if it was implemented and selected by the player - which is not the case.
-geever
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Quick Update
I have the vast majority of the geometry sorted and chopped up the wings so I can do a folded wing version that is more likely to fit a large hanger for base defence missions if that is feasible, not only that but they don't foul up the deployment doors! :D
(http://img859.imageshack.us/img859/1754/sic82e1.th.png) (http://img859.imageshack.us/i/sic82e1.png/) (http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/9892/si82991.th.png) (http://img210.imageshack.us/i/si82991.png/)
Next step I think is to plan where I am going to chop the craft up for the roof section.
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compared to the Firebird the wings on this are similar thickness in relation to overall height.
I was referring to the roots, actually.
And from what I understand, the Firebird doesn't rely on the wings as much as the Hyperion might.
Though, come to think of it, both of them probably are dropships first anyway so it might not matter.
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Hello, do not take this the wrong way, but I think you should change the model!
I do not want to penalize your skills but it is ugly, stumps heterogeneous elements, nose, fuselage, cockpit, are different in structure, you should use the same type of structure for each element (eg, insert a polygon ovoid of a polygon is Platonic good but not a polygon with a Platonic cuboid).
is your first job with the 3D true?
But if you do not, you could start by eliminating the curved line under the nose of the pilot;
Reshape their wings in a triangular shape and attach the short side and reduce them drastically.
About you based on the model of corrupting it?
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I have no knowledge about 3d modelling, so I cannot judge about the technical aspects. But the style I still like much more than the alternate model.
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kOba, I am struggling to understand your post, are you saying that I am basing different points of the ship on differing base shapes then you should know that this is all created out of a cube and nothing else.
As for the overall shape, this is a model I had created originally for my own purposes and when H-Hour expressed an interest in seeing it used for the Hyperion, (hence my opening to this thread,) I started fixing the geometry and adapting it to fit the needs of the project, and while it is getting close to being ready for texturing there is still work to be done adapting and fixing it up.
As for the nose
Sweet, that was my favorite. I really like the unique nose on it.
And while it could use a little more work smoothing out the curvature which i want to have another stab at before I'm done, I am also trying to keep the polly count sane for in game use.
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Do one thing at the moment you stop working on this model, another model starts from scratch. You'll see that in the absence of errors the old model will be substantially better.
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might be a good idea.
with that in mind I have attached the blender to date along with an OBJ export to be safe
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Any progress on this, headdie?
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Started poking again at it last night, adding a thruster vent at the rear that will probably only show on the texture on the final model and still straitening out some of the kinks in the mesh.
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Cool!
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I should also add that our model format doesn't support transparency in the model, so the cockpit can't have proper windows.
Actually, transparency for models is supported via hack: if texture got an alpha channel and it's not all 255's, model is rendered with alpha blending enabled. That's how vegetation models are rendered, for example.
On the other hand, any non-convex shape can (and probably will) have depth-sorting problems. Remember that pine rendered with a trunk in front of branches?
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Very interesting, sounds like it might be worth doing versions of the texture to see how it works out
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Note that you can place all transparent parts into separate model to avoid sorting problems for the non-transparent ones.
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Any progress on getting this thing textured and working in-game?
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Sorry RL and a computer reinstall has slowed me down, I have done the UV for most of the craft, hopefully in the next few days I will have the UV finished so texturing can start in ernest
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Ok so finally got the bulk work of the UV map sorted, mostly just scaling and juggling about to better use the texture space and then on to detailing it once I finalize the AO bake.
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Cool! Looking forward to it. This will actually complete our planned dropship/interceptor ensemble!
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Quick update, Given it a base colour using my own twist on the Stiletto scheme and stuck some hazard stripes on, perhaps gone OTT with them so I am thinking of removing the wing ones.
Next steps are to tidy up the artifacts in the base colour and start adding details. Any suggestions for the details welcome.
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Ohhhkay...
That. Is. Awesome.
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I think the warning stripes work around the cockpit and bay doors, but I'm not so sure about the wings.
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Done a little outer texture work but not happy with how the wings are distorting so might have to redo the UV on them
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It looks promising. It may be a little early to make this suggestion, but is there any chance of getting just a hint of color in there? Objects that are pretty grey still have the tiniest shades of color -- often blue for metalic/polymer stuff like an aircraft. And having some color distinction can help it "pop" a little bit more.
As an example, check out the difference in a grey (http://ufoai.org/forum/index.php/topic,5484.msg45786.html#msg45786)and colored (http://ufoai.org/forum/index.php/topic,5484.msg45865.html#msg45865)stiletto. Both have the feel of strict military function, but the latter just feels a little bit more exciting (IMO).
You probably already planned to do this later, but thought I'd mention.
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yay i'm not dead ;)
indeed I had planned on mottling the colour a little, I have also added some "paint chips" on the edges of the blue but I'm not happy with them at the minute.
thoughts?
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Well, looking at the chips...you feel they're too big?
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I like it but I would agree with Nutter. Smaller chipped edges, but more of them.
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Well I have run out of steam on this, so here are the most up to date files for anyone who whats to have a go.