UFO:Alien Invasion
Development => Design => Topic started by: bluereaper75 on March 25, 2012, 10:02:43 pm
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I mean the intro of the game talks about UFO's attacking cities and killing thousands... the panic caused by this worldwide must be immense, so why is phalanx a secret organization? It seems to me that the government could go public at this point, since the alien/human war is hardly a secret, and because it would be a morale booster to know something like this.
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Phalanx is a very small Organization. What would you think about your government, when you hear your family (and thousands of others) was slaughtered by Aliens and all they (seem to) do is an investigation department?
The technology Phalanx has (and later on finds and develops) is nt available all over the world, and since you only have this one base (= this one chance) any publicity would make it an easier-to-hit target.
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[...]
finally, someone explained this mystery : ))))
all the story and everything makes sense now.
to think that it was so obvious all along.
president: a secret army is protecting earth from aliens.
people: secret army? ??? how many soldiers?
president: 8 million. we might have to raise taxes.
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president: a secret army is protecting earth from aliens.
people: secret army? ??? how many soldiers?
president: 8 million. we might have to raise taxes.
:)
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So, basically, it's cheaper to just have a secret army of 8, then?
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The explanation does not stand really.
It's redicolous to think the only thing the nations are doing is Phalanx. You'd think that multiple plans and initiatives would be under way. And if Phalanx is the only solution, then why give it so little funding and persnell?
Gamepaly balance? But why should lore/common sense and gameplay be at odds?
It would make sense for the wrold to have multiple initiatives, with Phalanx being their best bet, but not the only one.
The only secrecy required is the base location. People knowing of their existence doesn't make it easier to hit for the aliens.
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I strongly agree with TrashMan.
In fact I'd also like to point out an important gameplay incentive to having AI controlled, non-phalanx, human soldiers. It's the fact that it takes a while to move 8 units around tactically, 12 or 16 much more so. Bulking out the player's side with AI driven, fellow earth-defending soldiers means larger battles can be fought against more aliens without taking so very long or leaving the player hopelessly outnumbered.
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That would allow for some very interesting setpieces and battels.
For example, helping defend a military base.
Holding a defenisve line while civilians evacuate in the event of a major alien attack.
Even an early assault ion a large ufo, with the military attacking from one side and providing a distraction.
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Could probably make a nice first stage if the base assault ever becomes a multiparter.
First you have to get to the door, take it down and then proceed inside while your extendable buddies secure it.
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hmm I wonder if the game mechanics would allow for splitscreen simultaneous concurrent battles between two squads and two sets of aliens... I'm guessing not. :)
that might be exciting though. First squad of 8 secures the base, second squad inserts. First squad stands guard outside but gets attacked by aliens "coming home"...
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I always thought it was more for security reasons than anything else. You know how the USA kept denying the existence of the NSA for a long time and how they still stop people from taking pictures of NSA, CIA and FBI offices? Most likely it's just to stop the possible alien infiltrators from recovering anything useful to use against PHALANX.
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Its funny you mention the NSA because signals intelligence is a good reason behind total secrecy.
While there might or might not be alien sympathisers we still have the issue that global communications is not only insecure but we are constantly beaming signals into space for satellites to bounce back which is very easily intercepted by the aliens.
If they learn how to translate these signals a publicly known organisation aimed at combating the alien threat would be a priority target, thus starting the hunt for the base.
By keeping the organisation it a secret it removes that obvious target and PHALANX operations blend into the pre-existing military responses. The early improvement in response and technologies would possibly be dismissed by the aliens in that it can be expected for Earth's combat forces to adapt hence why the aliens have improved equipment ready to go when Earth steps things up.
By the time it would become obvious that Earth has a dedicated response, PHALANX is in a much better position to defend itself (well if the player plays properly they will anyway)
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I`ve always thought that it is part of UN, and works under UN patronage.
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Yes it is a UN group but my understanding is that the UN has evolved in its methods into something with more teeth, perhaps this also involved the use of covert forces.
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I always thought it was more for security reasons than anything else. You know how the USA kept denying the existence of the NSA for a long time and how they still stop people from taking pictures of NSA, CIA and FBI offices? Most likely it's just to stop the possible alien infiltrators from recovering anything useful to use against PHALANX.
What alien infiltrators?
And while the US may officially deny the existence of Delta Force or NSA, we all know they exist.
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Its funny you mention the NSA because signals intelligence is a good reason behind total secrecy.
While there might or might not be alien sympathisers we still have the issue that global communications is not only insecure but we are constantly beaming signals into space for satellites to bounce back which is very easily intercepted by the aliens.
If they learn how to translate these signals a publicly known organisation aimed at combating the alien threat would be a priority target, thus starting the hunt for the base.
By keeping the organisation it a secret it removes that obvious target and PHALANX operations blend into the pre-existing military responses. The early improvement in response and technologies would possibly be dismissed by the aliens in that it can be expected for Earth's combat forces to adapt hence why the aliens have improved equipment ready to go when Earth steps things up.
By the time it would become obvious that Earth has a dedicated response, PHALANX is in a much better position to defend itself (well if the player plays properly they will anyway)
I don't buy it for 1 second.
a) aliens knowgin about Phalanx doesn't help them to find te base at all
b) There's bound to be organized resistacne, so an organization like Pahalnx really should catch any intelligent alien by surprise. Phalanx or reguklar military - it doesn't really matter. An enemy is an enemy.
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But knowing about the organisation means you will be looking for deployment patterns knowing that there will be something to look for, when you find regions where human activities show differences to the background norm then you know you have a good candidate for Phalanx
the Earth is not forced to formulate a global response and indeed from the intro I get the impression the aliens are taking advantage of or at least benefiting from the Earth's politically divided capability to respond because although the UN is pretty much in charge, military actions still come down to the political power blocks and if they had been observing us for any length of time then they would know with our backs against the wall, the reality is that we are quite likely to turn on each other when the going gets tough.
Keeping Phalanx a secret would delay the aliens in looking for Phalanx bases in terms of being a unified response rather than just being better than most at responding
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How do you tell apart phalanx from normal military?
What patterns are you looking for?
Human activity and background norms is not something aliens would know much about to begin with.
Why would Phalanx be a higher priority then any of the regular militaries, given how far larger they are?
And again, civies knowing about Phalanx doesn't mean aliens would know anything. They are alines.
the reality is that Phalanx being secret or not would have 0 impact on the aliens.
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What patterns are you looking for?
Equipment, training, behaviour, doctrine...
And again, civies knowing about Phalanx doesn't mean aliens would know anything. They are alines.
Aliens that are, most probably, capable of intercepting, decoding and translating our communications. And when civies know, the whole world knows, when the whole world knows, the whole world talks and when the whole world talks, everyone listening in on the talks hears.
They've probably been planning this. Which very much means they had the time to figure out our language.
The rest is mathematics.
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Equipment, training, behaviour, doctrine...
Aliens that are, most probably, capable of intercepting, decoding and translating our communications. And when civies know, the whole world knows, when the whole world knows, the whole world talks and when the whole world talks, everyone listening in on the talks hears.
They've probably been planning this. Which very much means they had the time to figure out our language.
The rest is mathematics.
How the hell would they know the behavior and training of Phalanx? First of all, phalanx tends to not leave survivors to report back.
Secondly the alines don't have a global coverage of Earth. Heck, even the biggest intel agencies on the planet, who can have actuial spies, have a hard time doing their job.
Thirdly, the entire world knows about Delta Force. But we don't know nothing really. Nothing of any military use anyway.
4th, there will be many military forces and organizations fighting alines. Most raf bigger and better funded. Why would they focus on Phalanx?
5th, knowledge of Phalanxes existence itself is meaningless. If the aliens are inteligent, they already know there will be forces opposing them. So in essence, Phalanxes name would only be confirmation of something they already knew.
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How the hell would they know the behavior and training of Phalanx? First of all, phalanx tends to not leave survivors to report back.
Secondly the alines don't have a global coverage of Earth. Heck, even the biggest intel agencies on the planet, who can have actuial spies, have a hard time doing their job.
There is a time lag between the aliens starting the offensive and Phalanx starting operations, this gives the aliens a set of base data on Earth's performance, which overall is woeful, then as Phalanx starts up there is a small increase in Earth wins, now there are 3 likely explanations in this.
1. This is just a blip in the statistical data (Best Case Scenario) Do Nothing
2. Earth's defenders are picking up their game (Most Likely) Deploy better equipment and hit sites of frequent activity (which is what we see)
3. Earth has 1 or more dedicated teams to the problem (Good Probability) Take them out before they become a problem
Tbh we only see option 2 really come into play in the early game, base attacks happen but we only see when players get sloppy or desperate with their craft launches and follow up attacks dont happen quickly suggesting they are attacks of opportunity rather than a serious attempt to take out the organisation.
Also you dont need spies or a global spy sat network, just the capability to observe the unfolding fight and a satellite phone. the sat phone provides ground to orbit comms with the fire team and a space craft with downward looking cameras or other sensors that make sense lets you watch enemy movements and most of what equipment they are deploying, the sat phone gives the fire team the ability to relay their own observations in real time so even if the mission is lost you still get all the needed data
Thirdly, the entire world knows about Delta Force. But we don't know nothing really. Nothing of any military use anyway.
Active 21 November 1977 – present
Country United States of America
Branch United States Army
Type Special Operations
Role Tier One Special Operations Force
Size Classified[1]
Part of U.S. Special Operations Command
Joint Special Operations Command
U.S. Army Special Operations Command
Garrison/HQ Fort Bragg, North Carolina
Nickname The Unit
Motto Surprise, Speed, Success
you can do similar searches on most spec ops groups and find probably locations, combine this data with google maps and you have a target, might not be the right target but worth a try. Phalanx cant afford this in the early days as unlike groups like delta who would just relocates to the most convenient US base, Phalanx does not have this option from what i can tell. and some numpty will wiki the info if they find it, if not wikipedia then the incarnation of wikileaks that exists then.
4th, there will be many military forces and organizations fighting alines. Most raf bigger and better funded. Why would they focus on Phalanx?
Phalanx seems to be effective where the others are not. remember each individual power block is also trying to respond by themselves so will have these groups in place.
5th, knowledge of Phalanxes existence itself is meaningless. If the aliens are inteligent, they already know there will be forces opposing them. So in essence, Phalanxes name would only be confirmation of something they already knew.
there is a huge difference between know and there probably is, you can commit to something you know, it is a lot harder to justify personnel, equipment and time to something you that might be the case, knowing something gives you something to find, suspecting something then all you are doing is guessing and it might not pan out that way, sure you keep your eyes open but you are better keeping the bulk of your resources to the known enemy and leave options open to deal with a potential higher calibre of threat
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Secret or not, the aliens won´t care anyway. To reach their goal they do not need to fight and defeat military resistance.
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and yet there is military resistance and little political desire for a surrender. That political will is due to Earth's military putting up resistance, defeat the military and the political will for a surrender is there, unless the politicians willingly surrender the people will fight back, thus a military solution is the best bet for both sides
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How the hell would they know the behavior and training of Phalanx? First of all, phalanx tends to not leave survivors to report back.
They don't have to know how Phalanx behaves, they just have to review all engagements where the behaviour of the defending troops deviated from that of regional troops. Then you just check which of these are acting in the same or at least similair manner and boom, you now know where your troops engaged a force that, for some reason went unobserved during intial preparations.
Possible explanations: Sloppy preparations, dedicated response force formed after initial assaults, some other stuff I don't feel like thinking of right now.
First of all, phalanx tends to not leave survivors to report back.
That's probably because you savescum your fights untill you win.
Not to mention they're probably either in at least rudimentary contact or observing the engagement from orbit. Maybe even preparing a rescue. Which, kind of gives me an idea for a mission.
The rest (and most of this too) was already adressed by headdie anyway.
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1. This is just a blip in the statistical data (Best Case Scenario) Do Nothing
2. Earth's defenders are picking up their game (Most Likely) Deploy better equipment and hit sites of frequent activity (which is what we see)
3. Earth has 1 or more dedicated teams to the problem (Good Probability) Take them out before they become a problem
Tbh we only see option 2 really come into play in the early game, base attacks happen but we only see when players get sloppy or desperate with their craft launches and follow up attacks dont happen quickly suggesting they are attacks of opportunity rather than a serious attempt to take out the organisation.
Also you dont need spies or a global spy sat network, just the capability to observe the unfolding fight and a satellite phone. the sat phone provides ground to orbit comms with the fire team and a space craft with downward looking cameras or other sensors that make sense lets you watch enemy movements and most of what equipment they are deploying, the sat phone gives the fire team the ability to relay their own observations in real time so even if the mission is lost you still get all the needed data
Dedicated team? The entire planets military is dedicated. The "movements" during a mission will tell you nothing. The equipment will also tell you little, given Phalanx shares equipment with the rest of the Earth (and especially at the begining)
you can do similar searches on most spec ops groups and find probably locations, combine this data with google maps and you have a target, might not be the right target but worth a try. Phalanx cant afford this in the early days as unlike groups like delta who would just relocates to the most convenient US base, Phalanx does not have this option from what i can tell. and some numpty will wiki the info if they find it, if not wikipedia then the incarnation of wikileaks that exists then.
Yeah, and the location of Phalanx base wont pop up on any search. So?
The base is a secret. Their existance isn't.
You dont' know who they are, where they live - just that they are there.
Phalanx seems to be effective where the others are not. remember each individual power block is also trying to respond by themselves so will have these groups in place.[/qutoe]
That entirely depends. Realisticly speaking, the military should have plenty of sucesses if phalanx can with a 8-man team. And the alines would have a hard time telling themapart. Even they can, the militaries are still bigger, packing a lot more hardware.
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They don't have to know how Phalanx behaves, they just have to review all engagements where the behaviour of the defending troops deviated from that of regional troops. Then you just check which of these are acting in the same or at least similair manner and boom, you now know where your troops engaged a force that, for some reason went unobserved during intial preparations.
Possible explanations: Sloppy preparations, dedicated response force formed after initial assaults, some other stuff I don't feel like thinking of right now.
What behavior are you talking about? All military forces (phalanx inluded) have standard military training.
Just how different do you expect Phalanx soldeirs to behave? And you think they would, do you think that every local unit will act the same?
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What behavior are you talking about? All military forces (phalanx inluded) have standard military training.
Just how different do you expect Phalanx soldeirs to behave? And you think they would, do you think that every local unit will act the same?
If that is so then why do different national militaries cross train?
A: different nations do things in different ways, battlefield experience shapes each force depending on what happens and how it is interpreted.
Different movements are the result of differing tactics, for example once force will use off battlefield support more than another who will prefer flanking manoeuvres from more self sufficient units. Some will prefer to employ UGVs or UAV/UCAVs, all this type of stuff forms signature activities and while we might work to mask that signature they are human nature and will show through in detailed analysis.
For equipment, Phalanx draws from only the most successful, due to it's remit it cannot risk using anything less. Power blocks will on the other hand will favour cost effective equipment which strangely enough is not quite the same, for example
missile 1 has an accuracy of 80% and a range of 100 miles at £1,000,000 per unit
missile 2 has an accuracy of 78% and a range of 95 miles at 75,000 per unit
Phalanx has to go for number 1 because the superior performance is vital
National Military would be more likely to go for missile 2 because although its performance is slightly inferior its cost per unit is vastly better and they have better infrastructure to mass launch
Yeah, and the location of Phalanx base wont pop up on any search. So?
The base is a secret. Their existance isn't.
You dont' know who they are, where they live - just that they are there.
The public cant write about something they don't know about, liek with the aliens they can guess but that is all it is.
Phalanx seems to be effective where the others are not. remember each individual power block is also trying to respond by themselves so will have these groups in place.[/qutoe]
That entirely depends. Realisticly speaking, the military should have plenty of sucesses if phalanx can with a 8-man team. And the alines would have a hard time telling themapart. Even they can, the militaries are still bigger, packing a lot more hardware.
Phalanx is set up specifically to deal with the alien threat with using the top percentage of the worlds soldiers with the best equipment available. I covered the equipment issue above so i will focus here on the soldiers. For starters in a military response outside of special forces means you have a mix of abilities ranging from those who could be SF is they wanted to (very small number) to the freshly passed out and the barely able to keep the needed pace, this promotes casulties and loss of moral. Also being part of an elite group sets up a certain mind set, you dont do something because you have to you do it because that is what you should be doing, because it could help. Knowing you are at the sharp end promotes tactical innovation and as sense of community and understanding on what your fellow soldier is likely to be doing.
Basically a well applied small unit can cause more problems for the enemy than an battalion of front line troops. The battalion is best placed to hold the line and grind to a victory, this is not the type of warfare the aliens are presenting, they are presenting a warfare of small unit vs small unit which is why Phalanx is doing better.
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No.
Different movements and tactics are not so big and distinctive that you can tell at a glance if the troops are US or russian or whatever. Even if you could - it's a big world, wiht a whole LOT of diferent groupsand division even within one country. Do SEALs and Rangers act the same? How about marines? Regular army? Green Beres? Etc, etc.. All US troops. Does the 1st paratrooper act the same as the 404th paratrooper?
The alines would have a hard tiem telling trooops from different countries apart behavior-wise, let alone being able to single out a single small organization in between hunderds.
And equipment wise, there are many, many differnet SpecOps units, and all use top-notch equipment. And considering many operate all over the wrold, telling them apart from Phalanx is gonna be next to impossible. Especially since Pahalnx uses pretty normal equipment. Effective does not equal expensive and rare. Most of the weaponry is pretty normal according to the descriptions.
And even if it weren't, how easy it is to tell them apart? So many rifels and weapons are similar in apperance and performance that they can confuse even us, let alone aliens.
That's of course, if the aliens even bother doing any of the things you mention (and if they are even capable of telling two different missiles apart while under fire).
The public cant write about something they don't know about, like with the aliens they can guess but that is all it is.
In which case the aliens will be fed a whole lot of misinformation since peopel will talk smack, which can only be good.
You and I will just have to agree to disagree.
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You and I will just have to agree to disagree.
I would have to agree there :D
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missile 1 has an accuracy of 80% and a range of 100 miles at £1,000,000 per unit
missile 2 has an accuracy of 78% and a range of 95 miles at 75,000 per unit
Phalanx has to go for number 1 because the superior performance is vital
National Military would be more likely to go for missile 2 because although its performance is slightly inferior its cost per unit is vastly better and they have better infrastructure to mass launch
This makes no sense, if in game I was allowed to buy and deploy option 2, I would totally spam that SAM all over the globe and the UFOs would be failing from the sky like rain.
I feel that this and the phalanx being super secret thing, and how its squad of eight soldiers that take so many hours to deploy are the ONLY counter to the alien attacks... all of these unbelievable elements are part of the same problem. That problem is the plot seems to favor hyping up Phalanx to be hollywood-style-cool so that the player feels important in his power fantasy, instead of giving it a realistic and believable role that does no harm to the game-play and potentially improves it.
Realistically speaking it only makes sense for Phalanx to be completely research-driven. There is nothing much destruction-wise that 8 soldiers flown in via scram-jet can do that 800 local soldiers couldn't. Especially since the latter has the advantage of heavy equipment like a couple dozen AFVs and attack aircraft. But the advantage to the lighter touch could be in capturing biological and technological specimens and bringing them back to isolated facilities for investigation. As well as conducting small scale field testing of new weapon systems on the threat, so that national militaries can adopt the winning systems on a large scale in preparation for a feared invasion.
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Phalanx does not have the resources to afford a spam attack which is why every shot must count
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Phalanx does not have the resources to afford a spam attack which is why every shot must count
Spamming two missiles at $75,000 each, with 78% effectiveness each, is way, way, way cheaper than using one $1,000,000 missile that is only 2% more effective.
That phalanx has such limited resources only furthers the need for cost effectiveness.
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I will admit that the example was probably a little closely set, still it was meant to illustrate that that a government will prefer a cheaper option with most of the capability, especially in when you consider that in the era running up to the alien war armed conflict on earth is considered over so justifying the expenditure is difficult. Phalanx on the other hand is purchasing the best of the best on offer because they don't want to risk a failure that would have been avoided by going for that extra 5 miles range and 2% accuracy
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The Earth is under attack - I'd say you'd have no problem justifying ANY military expenditure.
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fair point, but economies are a pain to change over night
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But the game plays out over a number of years, which especially during wartime allows dramatic changes in economics. Both time and motivation are on the side of tremendous and rapid military expansion.
Just look at the rapid militarization of nations leading up to and during the second world war and multiply that times the terror of a sudden, vicious, technologically superior extraterrestrial invasion.
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I am struggling to locate the intro text on the wiki but my impression is that it is weeks, a couple of months at most between the first attack and Phalanx becoming operational, which is not enough time to make significant economic changes, by the time the Wartime economy achieves and significant growth Phalanx has probably been operating for several months.
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That's what I mean; during the course of the game you should see some serious funding increases and huge force deployments to combat the aliens, even if it isn't there at game start. You shouldn't be the only one fighting this war in the sky or on the ground.
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Yes and no
Yes because as you say additional funding and resources become available.
No because those resources need to be used to maximum effect, if Phalanx is doing quite well then they are obviously fine for funding, top up their funding a bit to take into account increasing costs and spend the bulk of the money bringing other areas up to speed to improve the general response.
But on the other hand if Phalanx starts winning the war all by itself then perhaps much better funding would best benefit everyone.
It all comes down to the mind set of the accountants and their political masters.
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I don't think we're in disagreement there. All I meant is regardless of how resources are split between phalanx and local militaries, there must be tremendous military expansion in general. Because you are going from this utopian world with stable nations and no conflicts to a terrifying years-long interplanetary war.
Early in the game, when you show up at a sighting you should see light alien recon groups doing strange shit to defenseless civilians. But as months and years go by, you should see more and more of heavy local military forces already engaging the aliens by the time your dropship gets there. And your funding should be increasing at the same time. And of course the aliens should be getting more numerous and better equipped at an even faster pace.
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But on the other hand if Phalanx starts winning the war all by itself then perhaps much better funding would best benefit everyone.
It all comes down to the mind set of the accountants and their political masters.
The above scenario is impossible. There's NO WAY a 100-man organization woudl be winning a war by itself.
IMHO, the game should inforce the notion that everyone is fighting and doing their part. Phalanx is a mjaor, decisive player - but is should be made clear that it alone cannot suceed.
This can be doe trough news blurbs and mission designs.
You can have other nations attack and intercept UFO's (visibly) or as news.
You can have mission where the regular military saves your ass.
EXAMPLE:
you detect a UFO coming for your base early on - you can call for help and allied soldiers will arrive to help you. (but it only works if you detect it far out. IT would take time for hte allied troops to reach your base).
Or if your dropship/fighter is shot down - local military cna go an try o secure the area, or help you in some way.
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That would be super cool, but probably would be quite a lot of work to implement. Remembering that much simpler changes to the same effect have already been shot down for being too laborious to make.
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hmm. one of the things they're doing with Wasteland 2 (they got funding from kickstarter) is polling their users on what they think are good and bad ideas...
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Generally I would have to agree from the scale of things, but gameplay at current suggests otherwise.
I think a lot of what you said is good is suggested in the auto resolve discussions lately. As for the news papers, perhaps set it up like a weekly UN tactical update on the general situation, this would open some useful features, the ones that spring immediately to mind are:
1. Give a general overview of the war, if Phalanx is doing well then the filler reports are positive, if the player is not doing well then they tend to be grim.
2. Give indications of where the player should set up their next intercept base, for example if the player is based in Eurasia and reports from the revolutionary countries are of increasing UFO activity then that might be a good place to set up next
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That would be super cool, but probably would be quite a lot of work to implement. Remembering that much simpler changes to the same effect have already been shot down for being too laborious to make.
You mean like destructible 3D environments? That's because the devs hadn't yet heard about Voronoi Shatter. Oh yeah, baby! 8)
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That would be super cool, but probably would be quite a lot of work to implement. Remembering that much simpler changes to the same effect have already been shot down for being too laborious to make.
Allied soldiers?
No, not really. All the groundwork is there. It shouldn't be difficult to include them.
spacific mission, their intervention..that is a bit more demanding.
News tickers? Likewise.
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You mean like destructible 3D environments? That's because the devs hadn't yet heard about Voronoi Shatter. Oh yeah, baby! 8)
I was referring to http://ufoai.org/forum/index.php/topic,6634.0.html (http://ufoai.org/forum/index.php/topic,6634.0.html)
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can Radiant make missions too? And is it easy to include things like AI teams in it? If so I might try my hand at it, or ask one of the TA mission creators to give it a shot
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So far as I know their is only 3 teams implemented Phalanx, Alien and Neutral/civilian, I understand there are plans implement additional armed friendly non player teams but afaik that is still only on the todo list
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can Radiant make missions too? And is it easy to include things like AI teams in it? If so I might try my hand at it, or ask one of the TA mission creators to give it a shot
Radiant is only used to build the maps. You can not make a mission (aka level) with it.
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thanks.
I know this is probably somewhere else in the forum or in the contribute section... could you point me where? (I can't find it)
but... how do you make a mission then? Or are all missions purely random depending on start position of the aliens. (ie a skirmish)
In the game Total Annihilation, missions could be created where individual units were scripted to react to triggers, or to build certain things at a certain time / when certain criteria were met. This meant that the missions could be created on a truly intricate scale... creating a much greater sense of realism. is this possible in UFO AI?
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At the moment, maps and missions are effectively the same thing. We have no special objectives or scripting available. In UFORadiant you build the map (terrain/architecture), and place the starting points for aliens and players.
There is only a small text file in addition to the map that makes it available in the skirmish menu.
Check out our Mapping forum (http://ufoai.org/forum/index.php/board,3.0.html) and our Mapping Wiki Section (http://ufoai.org/wiki/index.php/Mapping).
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I only thought about campaign missions. For skirmish and multiplayer it should be possible to build something like a 'level'. We have triggers for various events, that could be used for this. Maybe it is just nobody ever tried.
If somebody wants to be first in, I will help wherever I can.
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I was reading this post, and i think that the problem isn´t the secrecy of the Phalanx group, but the nature of the war. I think that the whole figthing must be secret to the public. What i mean? The aliens can come to Earth frecuently but don´t make a massive assault. Why? There´s many explanations, but i prefer to think that is a very bad cost/effective way to make the job. They simply can use a sickness to scrub the humanity, for example.
So, i think that the battle must be secret, the alien missions are "special operations" to achive the goal of the "sickness" (the game have a history of this) and PHALANX is a counter-alien special operations group. That´s all.
How to explain the attacks to population? That´s the point. If you fail a mission, people start to know the reallity of aliens and the nations start to have "media problems" and riots at the streets, so, the nations will cut your funds. But, if you have succeed, the "battle" can be covered and the life continue "normaly".
How to explain the fallen UFOS? well, military "secret" aircrafts :D. The attacks on cities? Terrorist group (Like Cobra? :D). Homemade videos of battles and aliens? Well, trivializing the video or hacking the Youtube :D
Some ideas...
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@Duque Atreides
that was not a bad explanation, i am surprised.
but i'll write my own explanation anyway:
phalanx is a secret organization in order to protect phalanx from journalists asking for interviews and tv-shows, and telephone salesmen.
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@Duque Atreides
that was not a bad explanation, i am surprised.
but i'll write my own explanation anyway:
phalanx is a secret organization in order to protect phalanx from journalists asking for interviews and tv-shows, and telephone salesmen.
jejejejejeje well, that´s good :D
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I guess the whole thing is no secret. Everyone knows that it excists but the governments denys its excistance. Just like NSA
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I think that's about the idea. Phalanx is secret, but people know it exists. They don't know where its bases are or who is employed or likely even much about the tech they use but the fact that Phalanx exists has to be fairly common knowledge.
People know there are aliens and would alarmed if there wasn't a response. But people don't necessarily know all the details.
Why the secrecy? Even if it's no help against the aliens the people in charge will still do so out of force of habit, and keeping the location of bases secret does seem to be useful. It's not so much as the public doesn't know UFO are being shot down as no government wants another government reaching it before Phalanx, or heaven forbid "terrorists" should get their hands on a downed UFO.
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I suffer from the issue that doesn't allow you to read some texts so I never put to much attention on this point. Instead, I figured we were leading a public agency always in the need to have good result on his action to get some monney to continue. From that, the importance of being efficient on saving civilians and so on.
In fact, we can be stealth and not secret, just like the spies agencies thru the world.
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Well, the story makes it hard to mesh with the small-scale gameplay, with the dramatic and public assault of Mumbai and everything. Story is great and the Mumbai thing is important for the theme of the game, but then you wonder why these big superpowers are not doing much and your squad of 8 guys is doing so well.
So after these bold assaults, it unfolds into a slower, less wide-scale conspiratorial shadow war between the aliens and PHALANX. Like spy vs spy, or terrorists vs police scale conflict, more subversion and skirmishes, not so much world war III.
There could be some background story to explain it, say the aliens attacked just to test the waters, or it was just an extremely violent science expedition and decided open warfare would be too costly. Maybe there are not enough of them to sustain full conflict. Or they realize Earth's governments will use nuclear weapons to render the planet sterile before they ever lose an invasion. Anyways, they are 'alien' and have unknown technology and intentions, they don't need to rationalize like people do. Maybe the violent incursions worked historically for them to cow the world into surrender most of the time and decided to try that out first?
I think nuclear war would be a good losing condition if 5 nations defect and there are no other nations above 'pleased' or somesuch. The remaining governments decide defense of earth is a lost cause and they press the red button, destroying everything else the aliens would possibly want to take, just to spite them, but losing the game for the player.
As for the non-PHALANX militaries, I'd suggest and I've always imagined that they only act if they have to. Say you shoot down a UFO and leave the crash site too long. In XCOM, the crash site would quietly go away with no complaint. Maybe the host nation was just grateful you shot it down, they blasted the site with artillery or bombing runs and salvaged what they could, either way, not your problem. I imagine during terror sites, they hold a cordon to keep it contained, but are not competent or willing enough to go in an fix it, unless you procrastinate for too long.
As for like, cops or soldiers running around on a map battling aliens, they'd be little more then red-shirts anyways, so why bother coding them in? Either way, I think the world's military would be better represented with a little message saying they assaulted and recovered that crashed UFO you never got around to, or random crash sites appear in places you don't have radar coverage of. They managed to shoot one down and they'd appreciate it if your super-soldiers would come deal with it.
I think in the current version, shooting down a UFO over land and ignoring the site is like ignoring a harvest or intentional landing, which I think is bad. In the old Xcom you got points for shooting down UFOs, even if you just left them alone afterwards, you just got more points for attacking the crash site. I think countries should OK with crashed UFOs on their land and just give you credit for shooting them down. Or they shoot them down and you attack the crash site. They give you half credit for whatever half-assed work you are doing.
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... There could be some background story to explain it ...
At this point I started to wonder how far you made it into the campaign.
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Although an older post, i have a reason to PHALANX existence in secret.
Why the aliens do a limited war? Because the aliens don´t invaded the Earth, they are doing an INCURSION. This could be a scout "team" based on the Carrier ship? That could be the reason for a limited scaled-war. The aliens begun to scout with limited resources and their primary goal is stablish a secret base on Earth in order to prepare for a full scale invasion from their reinforcements.
Maybe the UN is aware of their prescence, but not the entire population. So, PHALANX is created. The ground incursions could be denied and media-controled by goverments. But if an alien crash or landing is not controled, the "facts" goes to world media and panic raises. That´s the reason to keep happy the countries. The war is so secret, that formal military forces is not allowed to confront the aliens. Another thing, not all countries have the same research capacity, the same military strengh and technology, so, a combined and secret effort is needed.
More than that, i have another storyline for the same game, but requires a little change to the mecanics of the game.
The invasion begun by an alien force that have about 100 or 200 hundred years of technological advance over mankind. This could explain how we can understand quickly their techs and why they invade us; their aren´t sufficient advanced to terraform another place or take their resources from another place. So, they need our planet and maybe our labor force.
NOTE: There are no reason for an high advanced space-faring civilization to invade Earth, when they can take almost infinite resources from many barren planets of the galaxy, including asteroids. There are not reason to take slaves when they can build robots or clones. Even water is not a full scale war trigger. Is a simple thermodinamic fact; the matter doesn´t destroy, only transform. With very little techs, the contaminated water could be cleaned. So, water is not a reason for a war, except by the stupid modern Earthlings ::)
Well, E.T have more technology than ours, so, the mankind lose the conventional war to the alien forces. But not all is lost. There are pockets of resistance in all planet. The UN assambled a last line of defense in a secret base with the best of the human tech with the hope of found a way to stop the aliens.
Here begun the game.
The fact is that there´s no funding at all or market. You only have a small scientist and engineering staff, and a small group of elite forces. One or two stealth interceptors and a dropship.
A first, you can answer to disstress calls in AM frecuency. Small groups of "civilians" (resistance forces) calling for another survivors. You can go in the dropship and rescue the "civilians". There are your new soldiers, scientist or engineers.
You can go to another missions to capture technology. Maybe an alien base located by the resistance. By this way, you can take techs for research.
The aliens will patrol all the planet searching for the PHALANX base, so, when the ufos fly near the base, it could be detected by IR systems. This makes the detection range very limited. When the first ufo is downed, you can research the alien detection, increasing the capacity to detect the aliens stealthy.
Bases. Bases is not needed anymore, because aliens controls the planet. Instead, when tech advance, you can build outpost to locate aliens around the world. How to build it? When you assault a landed ufo, you can capture it and use it. So, the ufo can fly to any location on Earth stealthy.
How to win? When you found the way to stop the aliens. Destroying their bases and his Command Center.
How to loose?
- When aliens found the main base and assault it.
- When you lost all your soldiers.
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I think I solved the problem.
Summary
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1. Why aliens start slow?
The first version of XVI did not work as expected and needed more development. The aliens are gathering samples and only fighting as much as necessary.
2. Why is PHALANX secret?
PHALANX is considered illegal and is supported by international secret organisations of conspiracy theorists. If you use the 2D geoscape the Flat Earth theorists might also like you.
3. Bonus1: Why is the game turn based?
It is because of the first failed XVI attempt by the aliens. Has the game being turn based ever been explained before?
4. Bonus2: Why are the soldiers untrained (without the catastrophic war where all trained soldiers died, that is)?
Because they are not soldiers but conspiracy theorists.
5. Bonus3: Could kids learn some real political geography?
Yes, because the financing organisations and countries would not be the same thing.
Story
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Nurse: Good morning, gentlemen, here's your coffee and medication.
Cdr. Navarre: Good morning, thank you.
Dr. Connor: Good morning.
(Nurse leaves)
Cdr. Navarre: I noticed an interesting file on the psychiatrist's table yesterday, and took a peek when she was busy with the coffee I spilled. It was about a syndrome that makes people absent-minded in a fight except one fighter. The rest are as if in a stupor, only able to execute a basic predetermined response. It is called SA-GM, the Single Actor and Grid Movement Syndrome.
Dr. Connor: That must be the result of too much smartphones, unhealthy eating habits, lack of exercise. You know the youth nowadays.
Cdr. Navarre: Those affected include trained military people, it is not limited to some feeble smartphone enthusiasts.
Dr. Connor: Does it mean that war has become boring? Could be a good thing.
Cdr. Navarre: On the contrary. It amplifies interesting tactical coincidences. Remember the game X-COM?
Dr. Connor: Jagged Alliance was better.
Cdr. Navarre: This is not happening in a game but in real life. It started small and was kept secret by the militaries, but now it is everywhere. Do you have any ideas what could cause such a thing?
Dr. Connor: You mean, only one fighter is conscious at a time, as if the fight was controlled by a malfunctioning hive mind? Perhaps the possibility of alien influence should be investigated. What is the Government doing?
Cdr. Navarre: It appears all the Governments would consider such an investigation illegal, on grounds of spreading conspiracy theories.
Dr. Connor: You are the military engineer, can you figure out a way to get out of this institution? There is a lab in the old bunker. If it is indeed aliens, we should get some soldiers and finances. Even from conspiracy theorists, if we cannot get real soldiers. And we might need to hide and trade on the black market.