UFO:Alien Invasion

Development => Mapping => Topic started by: ShipIt on November 12, 2011, 12:47:45 pm

Title: first mapping attempt - the +mansion map thread
Post by: ShipIt on November 12, 2011, 12:47:45 pm
Hello guys,

This is how my first mapping attempt stands out. It would be very helpful to me if somebody could take a look at it and give some feedback.

Thanks.

(http://www8.pic-upload.de/thumb/12.11.11/ulo67do9n8u1.jpg) (http://www.pic-upload.de/view-11967777/ufo00.jpg.html)
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: H-Hour on November 12, 2011, 05:41:03 pm
Fantastic start! Nice attention to the dimensions for pathfinding. Excellent attention to detail, like the trimming along the sidewalks and the house.

I only had a quick look in Radiant to check for any serious problems but nothing stood out. I'll look in more detail when I get a chance, but we've all been pretty busy lately.

One thing before you go too much further: We would prefer if you didn't start a new texture folder just for your map. This is only needed if the textures are likely to be used exclusively for one ma, but yours look like they could be applicable for many buildings. Could you put the door textures into /tex_doors/ and the rest into /tex_buildings/?
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: Crystan on November 12, 2011, 05:45:50 pm
Yeah for your first mapping attempt it looks really really nice!
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: Bartleby on November 12, 2011, 06:16:33 pm
Great. I like it.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: MCR on November 13, 2011, 06:51:11 pm
Very nice.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: Mattn on November 13, 2011, 10:09:01 pm
very nice - can you say something about the new textures and their licenses? maybe we can add them (and the map) to the master repo (if the license fits our needs)
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on November 14, 2011, 11:08:23 am
One thing before you go too much further: We would prefer if you didn't start a new texture folder just for your map. This is only needed if the textures are likely to be used exclusively for one ma, but yours look like they could be applicable for many buildings. Could you put the door textures into /tex_doors/ and the rest into /tex_buildings/?

Will do so, of course.

very nice - can you say something about the new textures and their licenses? maybe we can add them (and the map) to the master repo (if the license fits our needs)

Textures are from http://cgtextures.com/ (http://cgtextures.com/) (*_cgt.*) or http://www.texturemate.com/ (http://www.texturemate.com/) (*_tm.jpg). I checked T&C for both and for my understanding it should be ok. If not so, I will of course replace them immediately.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: Mattn on November 14, 2011, 11:32:09 am
sorry, cgtextures is not compatible

texturemate might be compatible - i'm not sure. if you aren't using too many of them, it be a safer to replace them with textures that we already have in master.

a list of licenses we use is here: http://ufoai.ninex.info/licenses/
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: MCR on November 16, 2011, 11:44:45 am
Texturemate should be compatible, no ?

From their homepage:

Quote: "At texturemate, you will find my completely original texture photographs, texture packs, stock images, brush packs, or any other resource I manage to create and share for you. Here, you are allowed to obtain anything for free for commercial or non-commercial use! All stock texture photographs have been taken by myself and are available in resolutions of 10 Megapixels or higher. There are no paid subscriptions or fees required to obtain any texture or brush here."
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on November 18, 2011, 08:33:23 am
This is how it looks like atm.

(http://www8.pic-upload.de/thumb/18.11.11/h22ux29eudz.jpg) (http://www.pic-upload.de/view-12026308/Unbenannt.jpg.html)

It is still far from playable and developing slowly. So I start to wonder if it will be ready before alien invasion takes place irl.

However, someone might want to take look. Praise, criticism and suggestions would be appreciated and welcome.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: H-Hour on November 18, 2011, 02:54:20 pm
Looks good. I like the underground garage.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: Crystan on November 18, 2011, 06:14:16 pm
Yep indeed nice! I noticed youre using 2.3? You should switch over to the 2.4 Snapshot because there many improvments and fixes also for the the editor if im not mistaken. ;)
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: tilli on November 18, 2011, 09:40:25 pm
just had a look at your map. Very good. I especially liked that ball on the swimming pool. Keep going.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: MCR on November 19, 2011, 02:09:17 pm
Yep indeed nice! I noticed youre using 2.3? You should switch over to the 2.4 Snapshot because there many improvments and fixes also for the the editor if im not mistaken. ;)

You're not mistaken ;). UFORadiant has been improved a lot since v2.3.

ShipIt, you really should use v2.4dev - many of the textures have been upgraded to higher quality and resolution also, so if you use v2.3 many textures on your map will be misaligned in v2.4, because of resolution changes and it will require some otherwise redundant work to make your map "fit" for v2.4. ;)

Which system are you using (win/linux) ?
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on November 19, 2011, 10:14:51 pm
Should have been my 1st step to get the latest .dev version running, I guess. So that is what I (will try to) do next.

Thanks.

I am using Windows.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: MCR on November 19, 2011, 11:29:50 pm
You can download the latest development version (nightly build) here: http://ufoai.ninex.info/snapshots/ufoai-latest-win32.exe

If you are brave and want to compile for yourself I recommend using Mutons tool:

http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/MinGW_Win32_(guided_with_GUI)
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on November 20, 2011, 09:07:39 am
You can download the latest development version (nightly build) here: http://ufoai.ninex.info/snapshots/ufoai-latest-win32.exe

If you are brave and want to compile for yourself I recommend using Mutons tool:

http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/MinGW_Win32_(guided_with_GUI)

One look at this "getting-the-source-and-compiling" was enough to take all bravery off my heart. So I am very very grateful for fhis advice. Will try to get it running going with this.

Thanks.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: Mattn on November 20, 2011, 06:06:44 pm
current progress looks very good, nice job.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on November 21, 2011, 07:10:31 am
Question on Radiant 1.6

Is it possible, to set the colors (in the x/y-, y/z-, x/z-view) the same way like it was in 1.5? Particularly to set the lines (of brushes) to black?
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: Mattn on November 21, 2011, 08:44:14 am
yes. there are several themes in the settings and you can modify each color in the settings as you like.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on November 21, 2011, 11:12:14 am
I checked of course the /views/colours settings. There are 4 themes with 19 colors (from Active_View_Name down to XYView_Crosshairs) each. But none of those changes the color I want. It always draws the lines of brushes in white. In 1.5 white lines were used for grouped brushes. I am missing something? 
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on November 27, 2011, 05:12:58 pm
Update.

ufo2map fails to compile it because
(http://www8.pic-upload.de/27.11.11/n58vx4opp54m.jpg)
and I have no idea what this means. Maybe someone can help me with this. Is it just getting too big?

Thanks.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: MCR on November 27, 2011, 06:00:05 pm
Update.

ufo2map fails to compile it because
(http://www8.pic-upload.de/27.11.11/n58vx4opp54m.jpg)
and I have no idea what this means. Maybe someone can help me with this. Is it just getting too big?

Thanks.


It means the max lightmap size is reached.
IMHO we should increase this limit at least a bit to allow bigger lightmaps especially for complex maps like yours, but this also means bigger bsp files...
mattn ?

ShipIt, try to decrease the scaling of some of your textures (like the grass for example) to fix this problem.

WOW  8)
Your map looks really good already. It is getting complex now :)
Very good strategic possibilities. Top work !

BTW, good to see you using v2.4dev now and all the new and upgraded textures from there.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on November 27, 2011, 08:47:21 pm
@MCR
Thank you for quick answer.

I decreased some of the textures and finally was able to compile it. But this would look absurd ingame. Also the .bsp has something like 40MB already.

What is the `lightmap´? The main-building part of the map does not have any lights yet.

I think what I now have is like 2/3 of what I want to have in a final version. So the question is if this is technically possible at all. And also if such a map is wanted/useful for the game.

Thanks.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: Mattn on November 27, 2011, 09:12:11 pm
you can also put this into several maps and make an rma theme. scaling down some textures will make the lightmap smaller. every map has ambient lighting, and thus a lightmap too.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: MCR on November 27, 2011, 11:29:22 pm
The lightmap is more or less a big, compiled texture containing the lighting info for all surfaces on a map.

AFAIK there is an ongoing effort to detach the lightmap from texture scale, I do not exactly know how far the code is already. (sizeless textures branch)

I like your map & the idea & complexity behind it, and as mattn said - it would be no problem to split your map in 4 parts for example and use the RMA code to assemble it back (without actually making the assembly random, just putting the parts back together in the correct order).

This will completely eliminate the lightmap problem and you can keep up the good work on details, without worrying too much about complexity and scaling...
Take a look at alienbase, and how H-Hour used the RMA code to assemble it.

Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on November 28, 2011, 08:05:52 am
Thank you very much, guys.

The map basically consists of ​​four parts already, for better clarity and workability. So making this an rma-theme should be not too much additional work. Although I was hoping it would not be necessary for me to have to work through even more walls of cryptic text.  ???

@MCR Special thanks for patiently explaining.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: H-Hour on November 29, 2011, 05:24:10 pm
The map basically consists of ​​four parts already, for better clarity and workability. So making this an rma-theme should be not too much additional work. Although I was hoping it would not be necessary for me to have to work through even more walls of cryptic text.

Yes, it's a bit annoying, but in the end you may come to prefer partitioning your maps: reduced compile times to check fixes, etc.

One thing that may not be explained in the wiki on RMA is fixed tiles. You will probably want to use this if your map has a particular layout and won't actually have any random elements. It will make the tile definitions easier since they are (basically) discarded. If no info is in the wiki on this, check out the new alien base RMA. I know I used them there. It just allows you to tell the RMA system to place (this exact tile) in (this exact location), rather than forcing it to try to match up the edges in the tile definitions.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on November 29, 2011, 06:18:54 pm
Making the map rma is well explained in the wiki, as is the whole mapping, in my opinion. And having all these examples (like alienbase  ;D) helps, too. And if it is not in the wiki, there is always somebody to help here in the forum.

The real challenge was to snap my existing map parts into the 256 grid while only moving it within the 32 grid. This does not always work, so it will take some additional time because of I will have to change some pieces. But it gives also some additional opportunities with the map. I have done most of this already, so hopefully I can improve the map itself within the next days.

Thanks.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: H-Hour on November 29, 2011, 11:03:02 pm
Just had a look at the map in the editor. Coming along very well. I like your eye for architecture and your use of vertical space.

I like the rock wall on the northern edge of the map. The way you have done it will likely cause a lot of unnecessary brush splitting (resulting in more polys and slower performance). Check out the attached map for an example of another way to create terrain using triangular faces. You can create natural shapes with this method and because all the vertices are attached you will end up creating fewer brush splits. Use it if you'd like.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on November 30, 2011, 10:39:44 am
Thanks H-Hour for pointing this out.

The canyon map is a very good example, but I have problems to figure out how to do to get results like this.  :-\
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: H-Hour on November 30, 2011, 12:12:00 pm
Hi ShipIt. I threw together this image tutorial on how to create terrain (http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Mapping/Terrain_How_To) using this method. Let me know if you have any more questions.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on November 30, 2011, 01:33:19 pm
Hi ShipIt. I threw together this image tutorial on how to create terrain (http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Mapping/Terrain_How_To) using this method. Let me know if you have any more questions.

Awesome. Thank you.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on December 21, 2011, 06:16:08 pm
Its been a while since my last update, so here it is. Next time it will be playable.

(http://www7.pic-upload.de/thumb/21.12.11/kasymnxzt59s.png) (http://www.pic-upload.de/view-12374527/ufo08.png.html)
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: H-Hour on December 21, 2011, 07:58:42 pm
Screenshot looks good. Was afraid you'd disappeared on us.

Check out the phong (http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Mapping/Surface_inspector#Surface_flags) surface property. You should set this on your rock cliff faces and it will smooth the edges between faces.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: Crystan on December 21, 2011, 08:16:25 pm
Looks wonderfull!
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: MCR on December 21, 2011, 10:29:44 pm
 8) 8) 8)
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: MCR on December 22, 2011, 12:42:53 am
/offtopic on

ShipIt, I see you got one of those rare 1920x1200 16:10 screens - it is a pity that it is not possible to get those anymore  :'(

/offtopic off
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: Sandro on December 22, 2011, 03:08:42 am
Screenshot looks good. Was afraid you'd disappeared on us.

Agreed :)

Check out the phong (http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Mapping/Surface_inspector#Surface_flags) surface property.

Actually, phong surfaces are somewhat broken in the ufo2map, so there can be weird lighting on them. But ofc one can try and see if it works out.

2MCR: HP2410U is still on the sale :) And I'm seriously thinking about buying one of those. Living with shitty TN 16:9 6-bit panel with insane colorshift is not fun :(
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: Mattn on December 22, 2011, 08:11:08 am
really nice job. if you find the time, please attach your current map files as zip - i would like to have a look at them.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on December 22, 2011, 09:01:19 am
Was afraid you'd disappeared on us.

No reason for this. There simply was nothing new to show.

/offtopic on

ShipIt, I see you got one of those rare 1920x1200 16:10 screens - it is a pity that it is not possible to get those anymore  :'(

/offtopic off

Its a nice piece of tech. And the added space is worth the money imo.

Agreed :)

Actually, phong surfaces are somewhat broken in the ufo2map, so there can be weird lighting on them.

I have a serious "weird lighting" problem in the underground part of the whole map, so ... Also I was not able to solve the other problems described in http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php/topic,6373.msg49788.html#msg49788 (http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php/topic,6373.msg49788.html#msg49788). Maybe someone can help me with this.

Looks wonderfull!
8) 8) 8)

Thank you very much, guys.

really nice job. if you find the time, please attach your current map files as zip - i would like to have a look at them.

Would be great if you could look at the maps. The files should all be in the last attachment ("mansion.7z"), aren´t they? Is 7zip no good?


Reason for editing : attached .zip files of four maps
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: MCR on December 22, 2011, 06:35:17 pm
@Sandro: This is the last 27", 1920x1200 16:10 that is sold here:
http://www.hannsg.com/EU/EN/Products/LCD%20Monitors/Common.aspx?productId=780

Here a test:
http://benchmarkreviews.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=654&Itemid=68
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: MCR on December 22, 2011, 06:38:26 pm

Would be great if you could look at the maps. The files should all be in the last attachment ("mansion.7z"), aren´t they? Is 7zip no good?


7zip is good. I think he just missed it.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on January 02, 2012, 08:42:15 pm
Just to proof i am still working on it:

(http://www8.pic-upload.de/thumb/02.01.12/hec6viffzvgt.png) (http://www.pic-upload.de/view-12495670/ufo01.png.html)
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: H-Hour on January 02, 2012, 09:12:26 pm
medieval wall... did not expect that! Looking good.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: bayo on January 02, 2012, 10:01:14 pm
medieval wall... did not expect that! Looking good.
... i was thinking the same :)
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: Kildor on January 03, 2012, 07:29:22 am
very nice work, really 4)
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on January 03, 2012, 02:10:39 pm
I made some kind of wodden spiral stair for my tower. Maybe this can go to prefabs?

medieval wall... did not expect that! Looking good.
... i was thinking the same :)

Thanks. Actually it should look old - but it simply won't. Too much sunlight i guess  8).
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on January 04, 2012, 10:44:08 pm
(http://www8.pic-upload.de/04.01.12/fjlwaa1uxy.png) (http://www.pic-upload.de/view-12519721/ufo00.png.html)

Somehow I like it.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: Mattn on January 04, 2012, 11:12:22 pm
me too ;)
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: H-Hour on January 05, 2012, 08:36:32 am
Fantastic! You've really got the sense of scale down. That's going to be one big map (I like big maps).
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: Crystan on January 05, 2012, 02:47:06 pm
Holy Mother Awesome!
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on January 06, 2012, 09:49:00 pm
I am finally there!

Its not ready yet (will it ever be?), but i was able to put all pieces together and now have some kind of a beta-version.No more placeholders, no more missing tiles.

There is not one single light on on the whole map, thus no pic of the night version available, sorry. Also a tower is missing (on the upper right corner of the first pic), as is the dropship (next to the pool). The heli-hangar ( under the ufo ) is not completed and of course there are a lot of minor changes and fixes to be made. Also i think i will rework completely the west-coast (this is the one next to the main building), so it will fit better into the 256-grid of the rma theme. I think most of this will be done within two weeks.

(http://www9.pic-upload.de/06.01.12/ftw4kxhuh59w.png) (http://www.pic-upload.de/view-12541033/ufo03.png.html)

(http://www9.pic-upload.de/thumb/06.01.12/az96w1uvfn1y.png) (http://www.pic-upload.de/view-12541337/ufo04.png.html)

(http://www9.pic-upload.de/thumb/06.01.12/xwvvk3on2jvl.png) (http://www.pic-upload.de/view-12541396/ufo06.png.html)


Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: MCR on January 06, 2012, 10:41:49 pm
Wow !
Huge.
Amazing.
Beautiful !
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: H-Hour on January 06, 2012, 10:57:03 pm
Looks like it's coming along very nicely ShipIt. Willing to share your files at this stage or do you want to hold off for a bit?
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on January 07, 2012, 08:45:49 am
Looks like it's coming along very nicely ShipIt. Willing to share your files at this stage or do you want to hold off for a bit?

I was that happy for the moment, I did not think about attaching the files for one single second. It should be no secret, so thanks for reminding me. Here we go.


@ H-Hour Maybe you could take a close look at maingate.map. I tried some more terrain-making there and ..., well i am still not sure about that.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: H-Hour on January 07, 2012, 10:33:20 am
Looking good. It's a big map with a lot of elements. What's the problem with the terrain-making in the main gate map? I didn't notice anything.

Check the attached images for some ideas on what's there.

Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on January 07, 2012, 06:39:11 pm
@ H-Hour

Thank you very much for putting your time into this.

 terrain - if it is ok, fine
 lights - i have no idea about the lighting, because i did'nt anything about this yet, so i will just follow your advice and do as suggested (as this requires changes on the four main parts of the map it may take a while to find the time for that)
 long hallway - this problem occours all over the map, i will work over that, put in some more rooms and stuff to break that
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on January 08, 2012, 08:22:13 pm
The map did make some kind of step up today, as mattn added it to master.

Its time to say some special thanks to H-Hour and MCR. Thanks!
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: TrashMan on January 10, 2012, 04:39:55 pm
Amazing work you got there....
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on January 10, 2012, 08:06:27 pm
Amazing work you got there....

Thank you very much.

If you dont mind playing the map for a minute or two, I would like to get as much feedback as possible. There is still room for a lot of ideas. But be sure to be always up-to-date, as I am working on this all day long.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: Crystan on January 12, 2012, 09:55:27 pm
Can i post some screens of your map on our indiedb profile? :)
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on January 12, 2012, 10:32:14 pm
Can i post some screens of your map on our indiedb profile? :)

Of course.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on January 14, 2012, 12:06:05 pm
Some screenshots of how it looks like now.

(http://www9.pic-upload.de/14.01.12/r6pc92vjgvb.png) (http://www.pic-upload.de/view-12622110/ufo20.png.html)

(http://www9.pic-upload.de/14.01.12/o97xqwywdzz.png) (http://www.pic-upload.de/view-12622144/ufo21.png.html)

(http://www9.pic-upload.de/14.01.12/jhuvan69oh1.png) (http://www.pic-upload.de/view-12622146/ufo22.png.html)

(http://www9.pic-upload.de/14.01.12/mqkffu2f281v.png) (http://www.pic-upload.de/view-12622154/ufo23.png.html)

Still a lot of work.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: MCR on January 14, 2012, 03:03:08 pm
Great, but why is it not in master yet  :'( ?
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: Mattn on January 14, 2012, 04:54:46 pm
very nice.

just one minor issue though - the boat looks a little bit too huge.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on January 14, 2012, 05:51:18 pm
Great, but why is it not in master yet  :'( ?

It is now.

Edit:It should be.

very nice.

just one minor issue though - the boat looks a little bit too huge.

Yeah you are right.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on January 16, 2012, 08:41:41 am
It looks like i hit another wall with my map. :'(

This time it is called max_gl_textures. Now i am busy counting textures like a shepherd counts his sheep. This may take some time, as i hate it.

Wish me luck, please!

Edit : r_listimages 1 gives me 996 out of 1024 used. And there is no dropship on the map yet nor an ufo. Frustrating.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: Mattn on January 16, 2012, 08:50:06 am
counting textures? i can extend uforadiant to give you a texture overview. but this might take a few days, too
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on January 16, 2012, 09:15:24 am
counting textures? i can extend uforadiant to give you a texture overview. but this might take a few days, too


Thanks. I have no idea how such a solution would look like, as UFORadiant never shows the whole map ?

I think I will make some kind of chart first, to see wich textures can be replaced by already used textures. I am this far now, that little problem will not stop me.
Also, if you could provide some suggestions how I can find out what causes the problems on the poolhouse (streched brushes). This would really help me to get over this.


@mattn I am sorry about crashing the mp yesterday. It looks like the map-get-scripts won´t work accordingly with python 3.x, wich was (i added this) not mentioned in the wiki. But i solved this and am ready to play whenever possible.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: MCR on January 16, 2012, 09:31:26 am
The problem is: You are not really able to count them, because the texture slots get filled with model (&other) textures dynamically during in-game play and I am not sure if they ever get released, when the caching of models option is turned on. ::)

So the longer you play, the more texture slots will get filled. Model caching should be a feature, but unfortunately in combination with MAX_GL_TEXTURES it acts like a bug.  ???

Another funny thing is that we have virtual in-game limit of 1024 models per map (MAX_MAP_MODELS), which alone would use up ALL of our texture slots when really used...  :o

You can turn off model caching to free a lot of the texture slots...
So to avoid bugs during play in-game (also with other maps), we should rework model caching and limit the amount of cached models to a specified number if MAX_GL_TEXTURES = 1024 is to be set in stone.

Edit: The MAX_MAP_MODELS stuff is not true, because it stands for the total number of map models allowed, not the number of different models, so forget that one, please...
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: Mattn on January 16, 2012, 09:34:55 am
@ShipIt: i will create a dialog for showing the textures and their count in the map. and maybe even the replace dialog right beside it. Just give a 2 days to finish it, i don't have much time these days.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on January 16, 2012, 09:57:30 am
@ShipIt: i will create a dialog for showing the textures and their count in the map. and maybe even the replace dialog right beside it. Just give a 2 days to finish it, i don't have much time these days.

I will take whatever i can get.  ::)
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: H-Hour on January 16, 2012, 12:32:33 pm
It may help to think of your map thematically rather than realistically. In reality, everything has a different texture, but in a game you will often re-use textures a lot. Maybe you only need one type of floor tile, one type of wooden paneling. Maybe every chair in the house is the same kind.

From your perspective as a creator, who puts a lot of thought into the map, these things will stand out. But to a player who interacts with the objects generically (can I hide behind this? this looks like a kitchen area/living room/bathroom. Etc.) this kind of repetition is more acceptable.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on January 16, 2012, 12:58:13 pm
It may help to think of your map thematically rather than realistically. In reality, everything has a different texture, but in a game you will often re-use textures a lot. Maybe you only need one type of floor tile, one type of wooden paneling. Maybe every chair in the house is the same kind.

From your perspective as a creator, who puts a lot of thought into the map, these things will stand out. But to a player who interacts with the objects generically (can I hide behind this? this looks like a kitchen area/living room/bathroom. Etc.) this kind of repetition is more acceptable.

Well, i can see your point. And this is the way to go for me with my map if it is the way you want to go with the game.

Edit : *maps

Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: H-Hour on January 16, 2012, 02:30:13 pm
We don't have a set artistic direction, but I think you'll find realistic quickly outgrows our graphics capabilities and undermines gameplay. It is your call, though. We don't have any kind of art style limitations on map contributions.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: Gren on January 16, 2012, 08:57:02 pm

So the longer you play, the more texture slots will get filled. Model caching should be a feature, but unfortunately in combination with MAX_GL_TEXTURES it acts like a bug.  ???

Would that be the explanation of why I'm regularly seeing this error...

2012/01/16 19:39:59 Total textures: 1024/1024 (max textures: 1024)
2012/01/16 19:39:59 Total texel count (not counting mipmaps): 141485888
2012/01/16 19:39:59 ********************
2012/01/16 19:39:59 ERROR: R_LoadImageData: MAX_GL_TEXTURES hit
2012/01/16 19:39:59 ********************
2012/01/16 19:39:59 Shutdown server: Server crashed.
2012/01/16 19:39:59 Unload the game library
2012/01/16 19:39:59 Disconnecting...
2012/01/16 19:39:59 Client stream was closed
2012/01/16 19:39:59 Used inventory slots after battle: 0


...after playing 'n games?  ;)

Quitting & restarting the game sorts it, but I guess it must be a headache for you developer types..

Title: Re: first mapping attempt, Link NSFW
Post by: ShipIt on January 17, 2012, 08:10:49 am
Would that be the explanation of why I'm regularly seeing this error...

2012/01/16 19:39:59 Total textures: 1024/1024 (max textures: 1024)
2012/01/16 19:39:59 Total texel count (not counting mipmaps): 141485888
2012/01/16 19:39:59 ********************
2012/01/16 19:39:59 ERROR: R_LoadImageData: MAX_GL_TEXTURES hit
2012/01/16 19:39:59 ********************
2012/01/16 19:39:59 Shutdown server: Server crashed.
2012/01/16 19:39:59 Unload the game library
2012/01/16 19:39:59 Disconnecting...
2012/01/16 19:39:59 Client stream was closed
2012/01/16 19:39:59 Used inventory slots after battle: 0


...after playing 'n games?  ;)

Quitting & restarting the game sorts it, but I guess it must be a headache for you developer types..

I am really sorry about that.

Unfortunately this is caused  by things wich are not part of the map itself (how many different models/pics the game loads into the map when starting the game - buttons for the UI, weapons, head-models, body-models, normalmaps, glowmaps ....). Also the game loads things dynamically, so the crash might happen during gameplay also.

I am working on this, but its hard because i have to replace as much textures as possible, wich is not an easy task to solve simultaneously on twenty map-tiles.

Edit : Also, new normalmaps, specularmaps, UI-buttons, soldier- or alien-models may (hopefully) be added to the game in the future. So it is possible i will end up in some kind of a 16-colour-sheme with the map, looking like :

http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTp79WFLhI67glwk57fGk2Q30TCiZ6X9H2CSpPmksnQTLY_Vwzuzg.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: Mattn on January 17, 2012, 10:43:25 am
i hope you have seen the new texture overview feature in radiant. it might help you to reduce the texture count
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on January 17, 2012, 11:59:19 am
I will share my results, despite, well, I want to be honest : I did not expect that.

I made a sheed, put every texture used in the map into it with an advice what it is used for. After this I categorized the textures by giving it a number ranging from 1 to 5 :

1 = This will not be changed.
2 = Are we back in the 80´s ?
3 = Well, some of this maybe.
4 = I can live without this
5 = Who put this stuff in there?

Facts:
497 lines total (counting doubled)
238 different textures used
43 category 1
23 category 2
55 category 3
32 category 4
89 category 5

To my defense : Much of the category 5 comes from the poolhouse. This is were i started weeks ago, toying around and checking things out.

Now i will try to take advantage of mattn´s new 'texture overview' feature in UFORadiant to get rid of this problem.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: MCR on January 17, 2012, 01:02:48 pm
@Gren: Turn off model caching in the options menu to solve that problem. Will we get a new track soon ?  ;)
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: H-Hour on January 17, 2012, 02:48:39 pm
Yeah, I still find textures hanging around alien base that I don't mean to be there, but tried out at one point. These things just linger.......
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: Gren on January 17, 2012, 05:09:26 pm
@Gren: Turn off model caching in the options menu to solve that problem. Will we get a new track soon ?  ;)

Thanks MCR - that has also sorted out a problem I was having with the display intermittently freezing.  ;D

A new track... hmm - I have a couple of ideas down which I can develop.. leave that one with me  ;)
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: MCR on January 18, 2012, 03:04:10 pm
/offtopic on

A new track... hmm - I have a couple of ideas down which I can develop.. leave that one with me  ;)

 8)

/offtopic off
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on January 18, 2012, 05:23:43 pm


A new track... hmm - I have a couple of ideas down which I can develop.. leave that one with me  ;)

Make it playing loud and fast and I will love it.

/offtopic on

 8)

/offtopic off

You are allowed to spam itt.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on January 18, 2012, 07:45:38 pm
I reduced texture count again (by ~60) in my last commit. I did a lot of testing and it made the map work for now. I will keep working on this and report details later.

Very good news : pelya already started working on a patch wich will allow to avoid this problem in the future. Solving this task will make him 'Hero of the week' at least.

Also mattn did a great job with the 'texture overview' tool in UFORadiant. This is a cool thing to work with, esp. in big maps. Now you can see wich textures are used and how often. You can see were it is used on the map, pick and replace it in no-time.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on January 22, 2012, 08:19:00 pm
(http://www7.pic-upload.de/22.01.12/n1g5pi6xwpkt.png) (http://www.pic-upload.de/view-12719084/ufo29.png.html)
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: H-Hour on January 23, 2012, 06:41:05 pm
ShipIt graciously volunteered to let me use Mansion for the first of what I hope will be more map analyses (http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Mapping/Map_Analyses/Mansion).

In the wiki, I've taken a look at the map's broader tactical elements, highlighted what is good and suggested what can be changed. I hope to do more so that we mappers can start discussing in more detail the gameplay ramifications of our maps.

The analysis is nothing more than thoughts to spark discussion. ShipIt is not expected to make any of the recommended changes unless he wants to.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: Bartleby on January 23, 2012, 11:05:37 pm
sry h-hour, like all others i guess, i like youre work. but your "recommendations" about this map.. well... plz no. not all maps should be "tactical". i like also some easy maps. and i think this map is far away from too easy. the tunnels are "bad" enough. you really want more walls? do you really like the feeling to go round a corner and see an alien that much?

if i should suggest something to shipit:
- delete all walls round the map and make with those an other very nice map with old design, maps can be too polished/designed if you want to integrate everything. ppl that make good maps make sometimes too good maps. sometimes its better for gameplay to keep things simple and make more different maps.

anyhow. this map is GREAT :).
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on January 24, 2012, 06:59:42 am
sry h-hour, like all others i guess, i like youre work. but your "recommendations" about this map.. well... plz no. not all maps should be "tactical". i like also some easy maps. and i think this map far away from too easy. the tunnels are "bad" enough. you really want more walls? do you really like the feeling to go round a corner and see an alien that much?

H-Hour and me are very different in our thinking about how a good map should look like. Thats the reason for me to listen careful to his advice, as he prevents me from drifting away too much.

if i should suggest something to shipit:
- delete all walls round the map and make with those an other very nice map with old design ...

Its already pretty sure I will make some smaller parts out of this map once, so you speak right out of my heart.

anyhow. this map is GREAT :).

Thank you very much.  ;D
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: Mattn on January 24, 2012, 07:43:55 am
wow Nate... great analysis.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: Mattn on January 24, 2012, 08:09:38 am
i've had a look at the poolhouse map and have some suggestions for you.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on January 24, 2012, 12:19:20 pm
Update. I did not make a lot of progress with the map. Last days I was busy with reducing texturecount, hunting "streched textures" in poolhouse (partly success), hunting weird lighting in the underground levels of the map and making some smaller improvements. So I had just enough time to add some lights and streetlights to the map together with some trees.

(http://www7.pic-upload.de/24.01.12/133kbwyyg9s.png) (http://www.pic-upload.de/view-12735460/ufo05.png.html)

(http://www7.pic-upload.de/24.01.12/vtsjpne7a88t.png) (http://www.pic-upload.de/view-12735481/ufo06.png.html)

(http://www7.pic-upload.de/24.01.12/iyl61az72y1e.png) (http://www.pic-upload.de/view-12735542/ufo07.png.html)
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: Mattn on January 24, 2012, 12:22:50 pm
very nice job.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: H-Hour on January 24, 2012, 02:01:22 pm
Looking good!
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: balasar on January 27, 2012, 02:09:24 pm
Very cool detailed map.

But I have one question.
I am on the map "mansion" do not have a fountain. Instead, only a black shadow.
Why might that be?
 build from 01/27/2012/amdk10/4gb/R5700HD/WinXP
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: Mattn on January 27, 2012, 03:49:36 pm
maybe wrong levelflags for the misc_model entity
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on January 27, 2012, 10:55:50 pm
Very cool detailed map.

But I have one question.
I am on the map "mansion" do not have a fountain. Instead, only a black shadow.
Why might that be?
 build from 01/27/2012/amdk10/4gb/R5700HD/WinXP

Are you using mutons build tool ?

Iirc i had the same problem when using this tool on our family-pc. Please check the console after loading the map - there should be more models missing, if I am right. In this case we should report muton about this.

I can try to upload the complete models.pk3 for a quickfix tomorrow.

Btw, you do a great job in reporting map-bugs. Maybe you should think about compiling the game yourself anyway. This way you could use map-get and ensure to be always up-to-date.

Edit : I missed the log you attached, sorry. It is missing more models, not only the fountain, as suspected (in your pic there are no waterlillys in the small sea, for example). Please tell me if you are using mutons build-tool. I will report then.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: balasar on January 28, 2012, 08:29:20 am
Yes I using mutons build-tool.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on January 28, 2012, 09:14:17 am
Yes I using mutons build-tool.

Reported here : http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php/topic,3843.msg50527.html#msg50527.

Sorry, but models.pk3 is ~170MB wich I have no idea how to upload (due to the death of megaupload). So I cannot help you this way. Maybe someone else ... ?
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: balasar on January 28, 2012, 09:31:17 am
Surprisingly, I have all models in models.pk3 that are not on the map...
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on January 28, 2012, 10:35:12 am
As the console prints out

R_FindModel: Could not find: 'models//objects/city/fountain/fountain2.md2

while the model is located in models/objects/city/fountain/fountain2.md2

to me this looks like either the game is using a wrong path or the model is not where it should be.

Can not provide further help, sorry.

Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: balasar on January 28, 2012, 01:47:24 pm
Where is this paths is located? I thinking in mat-file, but mansion.mat is empty.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on January 28, 2012, 02:36:40 pm
Where is this paths is located? I thinking in mat-file, but mansion.mat is empty.

I really think there is nothing you can do about this. It is not a problem of the map. You do only notice it on +mansion because I use a lot of models there, wich is not the case on most other maps.

Edit : How about extracting the models.pk3 using 7zip? There should be a /base/models/... directory after doing so Maybe this will help.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: Muton on January 29, 2012, 09:43:13 am
Hi

since its possible to compile the game in mingw by calling make
im (the script) not doing things my own way.
The script uses make calls as you would to compile models
Code: [Select]
make models Q= -B -j $ammount_cores*2

and this path bug is a map bug
Code: [Select]
D:\UFOAIwin32BUILDenv\MinGW\ufoai\base\maps\laboratory\lab_main.map
"model" "models//objects/firehose/firehose.md2"

D:\UFOAIwin32BUILDenv\MinGW\ufoai\base\maps\mansion\mansion_craft_ufo_empty.map
"model" "models//objects/furniture/locker/locker2.md2"
"model" "models//objects/furniture/locker/locker2.md2"
"model" "models//objects/furniture/locker/locker2.md2"
"model" "models//objects/furniture/locker/locker2.md2"

D:\UFOAIwin32BUILDenv\MinGW\ufoai\base\maps\mansion\mansion_main.map
"model" "models//objects/rubbish/oil_can.md2"
"model" "models//objects/construct/generator_big/generator.md2"
"model" "models//objects/city/fountain/fountain2.md2"
"model" "models//objects/industrial/valve/valve.md2"

D:\UFOAIwin32BUILDenv\MinGW\ufoai\base\maps\mansion\mansion_maingate.map
"model" "models//objects/vegi/water_lily2/lily.md2"
"model" "models//objects/vegi/water_lily/lily_bloom.md2"
"model" "models//objects/vegi/water_lily2/lily.md2"
"model" "models//objects/vegi/water_lily/lily_bloom.md2"
"model" "models//objects/vegi/water_lily2/lily.md2"
"model" "models//objects/vegi/water_lily/lily_bloom.md2"
"model" "models//objects/city/bench/bench_s.md2"
"model" "models//objects/city/bench/bench_s.md2"

D:\UFOAIwin32BUILDenv\MinGW\ufoai\base\maps\mansion\mansion_poolhouse.map
"model" "models//objects/airpipe/airpipe.md2"
"model" "models//objects/airpipe/airpipe.md2"
"model" "models//objects/city/waste/bag.md2"
"model" "models//objects/construct/generator/generator.md2"
"model" "models//objects/gascylinder/gascylinder.md2"
"model" "models//objects/furniture/locker/locker2.md2"
"model" "models//objects/furniture/locker/locker2.md2"

Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on January 29, 2012, 11:23:13 am
It's beyond my understanding, but MCR fixed it. Thanks.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on January 30, 2012, 10:04:24 pm
There is nothing new to show on the map. I still have to add the ufos and dropships. Also I need to add some stuff at the inner side of the medieval walls.

I put a lot of time in this, unfortunately I was not able to solve the problem with those "streched" corners and windows on the poolhouse. The same problem all of a sudden also appears an some of the coast tiles. Seems like my mapping style is still not UFO:AI conform yet.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on February 08, 2012, 08:48:23 pm
At least it looks like aliens arrived on the map using their own vehicle.

(http://www10.pic-upload.de/09.02.12/z2rfd8nkg1vm.png) (http://www.pic-upload.de/view-12909612/ufo01.png.html)

The map now supports all dropships, ufo-scout, -fighter, -harvester and -supply. Also I started to add / change things according to H-Hours tactical analysis. So the heli is now outside the hangar, some stuff was added on the inner side of the wall. But I have no idea what I will do about the emty place (left oft the harvester between the two streets), as this needs something to hide behind for our soldiers on their way from the landing zone to the heli-hangar.

edit : switched back to pic-upload.com as requested by Kildor
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: Kildor on February 09, 2012, 05:22:00 am
very, very nice work!
One note, can you do not use this img-host? It is full of spam, advertises (it founds some win-viruses on my ubuntu) and do not want to give original file.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: Crystan on February 09, 2012, 10:38:26 am
One note, can you do not use this img-host? It is full of spam, advertises (it founds some win-viruses on my ubuntu) and do not want to give original file.

Yes indeed. This site looks very untrustworthy. I would suggest imagehack.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on February 09, 2012, 10:59:45 am
Yes indeed. This site looks very untrustworthy. I would suggest imagehack.

As I do not know how to hack an image I prefer pic-upload.com.  ;D

Hopefully this is ok.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: Crystan on February 09, 2012, 11:36:23 am
http://imageshack.us/
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on February 09, 2012, 02:42:43 pm
Yes indeed. This site looks very untrustworthy. I would suggest imagehack.

It was this 'hack' I was joking about.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on February 09, 2012, 02:53:43 pm
Just found and removed an invalid alien spawnpoint on the map. An alien spawning there was stuck in a wall and invisible for the player, making the game unbeatable. So, if someone could not find the last alien after searching for days and had to give up on the mission - blame on me  :-[.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: balasar on February 09, 2012, 08:28:52 pm
I would say that this is the most interesting map in the game. Cool work.
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on February 10, 2012, 09:30:21 pm
Instead of some No.100 milestone post I started this : http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Mapping_for_Dummies/Lesson3

I will be off for a week to winter holidays now. No internet for this time by order of my wife :(.

I would say that this is the most interesting map in the game. Cool work.

Thank you very much. I have to admit, testing and reporting is an important part here, so you did some work for the map, too. :)
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on March 18, 2012, 08:45:23 pm
As requested : Mansion medium. This one only uses the main building and the hangar, where the hangar is the base for the dropship now.

(http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/746/ufo03.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/210/ufo03.png/)

(http://img576.imageshack.us/img576/4027/ufo04.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/576/ufo04.png/)
Title: Re: first mapping attempt
Post by: ShipIt on March 19, 2012, 01:09:56 pm
Small assembly is just the main building.

(http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/9073/ufo05.png) (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/853/ufo05.png/)