UFO:Alien Invasion
General => Tactics => Topic started by: parjlarsson on May 15, 2011, 03:59:18 am
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Good first placement base seems to be anywhere in the center of a landmass to minimize early UFOs shot down lost at sea. Middle East works. Africa. South America. Tibet area.
Then what?
1st base is gradually built into a research base (as I don't know if the Research needs aliens in THAT base, but it would stand to reason).
UFO yard outside.
2nd base turns into Production and secondary dual Stiletto base with one Firebird.
Then later on in game I have the globe fairly covered in Radar and SAM sites, with the 1st base gradually becoming pure Research while I shift the interception duties to a nearby flight-only base.
Just seems to be a bit overly tedious to have all these different bases, becomes a jumble of micro-management, but maybe I'm doing something wrong. Doesn't help that each base tends to become completely built-up, leaving huge areas to sweep through in overly lengthy base defense missions.
Thoughts?
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I go for 6 bases, in pairs. One is radar/interceptor/dropship/SAM base, while the other is pure workshop. First base is focused on research instead of SAM.
Placement: First goes to mediterran, around Cyprus. Second goes to USA, somewhere in north Texas or that...third is placed at New Guinea. This way, with radar bases at south Africa, south America and northeast Siberia, I get a good coverage of most of inhabited landmass...
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I tend to build hybrid bases mostly, though some are pure workshops that provide radar coverage.
Usually so that one in Europe, on in North America, one in South America, one in Mongolia and one in Australia. Africa and Antarctica later, if necessary.
That provides more or less seamless radar coverage of the whole world (without advanced radar, that is). It also allows for a fair amount of flexibility.
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I tend to start with hybrid bases (definitely the first one), then construct more specialist ones for research and production later. Early on the game, you don't really have enough people available to staff mulitple bases adequately, so hybrids are the only way to go.
In my current game (veteran level), it was June before I really had enough soldiers to consider a third base, although the June draft was huge, so I can easily manage it now. I've also got about $1m cash, so I can nearly afford it too. I'll probably start base 3 in July to minimise upkeep expenses.
My first base goes over Europe, roughly in Turkey (covers part of Asia and N Africa), the second in Asia proper covering Russia / China / India, and the 3rd will go in the middle of the US. Then fill in S America / Australia / Africa as and when, maybe a couple of radar bases to cover gaps in coverage.
All bases will have a Radar and at least 8 soldiers, but not all will have transport. Purely research / production bases will just be garrisonned with low quality troops (and flamers, natch).
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So far i've been through about 6 months of the game on standard difficulty and so far i haven't really needed more than 3 bases. Mostly i just put up radar towers to detect the UFO's on the outskirts of each continent and in the middle of the smaller continents. This is my first play through of this game specifically but i loved xcom. Played it through most of my childhood. On X-com West asia always seemed like a good place to put your first base, as the most land mass surrounds it, but then again there was always the issue of keeping the US happy because they paid the highest. On UFO: AI in particular, the radar towers were all i needed to monitor more than a third of the planet, most of which your interceptor's can easily get to before they need to turn back for fuel. No matter which country you start in, though, you should always sell your first few UFO's to the countries you cannot yet cover to keep them happy. It'll be a while before you can or should research those anyway.
country happiness = funding = player happiness.
Glad to see that at least someone is out to innovate and create rather than to make money on their video games. It's a great premise and i'm extremely glad to see this new xcom-like game.
I will try to provide useful feedback so that you guys can do what you do best better. ;) Keep up the good work.
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I always have the maximum allowed (7 or 8 ). The first is in the middle of the USA. 2 workshops, 3 labs and soldiers. The second is in the South America, again in the centre. 2 labs, 3 workshops, soldiers. The others are max 2 of them with up to 5 labs and the rest is just for pure production with max 5 workshops. 2 are in Africa, 1 in Europe and 2 in Asia. I have max 2 Ufo Yards and 1 radar. Three or two SAM sites around each base. With the laser turrets they can take even a harvester down. Fighters and Scouts are a piece of cake for them..:)
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for the see, i always try to loose half of the intercepted ufo in the see, i'm trying to kill every alien that put a foot on the earth so if they crash in the see, there is no hunting down after so my soldier could have some rest.
The second reason is that a crashed ufo is not insteresting: there is no anti matter in it anymore and i need a good supply of antimatter... so i disassemble mostly harvesters. (With ufo hangar against the base so i can process a harvester in less that 5 days (5 workshops). If fact it would be good if the ufo thing could be rendered on geoscape under the base so when you click the base, the computer dont get confused.)
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i usually build the first base in SE china since there are a lot of big cities in eastern china and building the base in SE China can let some of the ufos you intercepted falls to sea and this is useful if you are playing in very hard.(at least you dont have to do a tac mission afterwrods)The i build 1 bse in US and 1 base in europe.I putted 7-8 incepters in EU base and their range is enough to intercept ufos in greenland and NE US.The US base is radar and production base while the first home base is research and elite base.I also build tons of SAMs and radar tower in africa and south america to fill the gaps.
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Definitely build them in pairs.
Each base can have support 3 installations, so I have two bases that have missile ranges that just overlap, and spread the SAM around them. Fighters, scouts and (sometimes) harvesters just get shot down as they wander through the area.
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The number of base is limited.
So be careful.
Base invasion is not detected from the radar.
So always keep a base defence squad on each of them.
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Headquarters I build in eastern Europe. Next I build a base really near as a pure workshop base. My Headquarters base has all my labs and workshops churn out goods (I leave the workshop at head quater to churn out ammo). After that I build five more in order, China, USA, Africa (South), South America and then Australia. I never use air defence (I even sell the first interceptor at the start) I have a squad at each base and when attacked, kill them and sell their ship. Better than a somali pirate operation.
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mostly on islands, so that most ufo-s drop into the sea.
now i am thinking there might be another benefit for building on an island.
i have seen some base attacks without ufo, but i don't think i have ever had a base attack without an ufo on an island base.
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I put one on every continent. Every one of them is surrounded by 3-4 SAM's with overlapping rings of fire.
HQ and UFO yard in America
Research and Development in Antarctica
Stiletto, Firebird, and Saracen bases everywhere else.
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I think three base could suffice. Building a fourth gets you more installation slots though.
I like to build my first base near Istanbul, the second one on the UA/RC border and the third one in Indonesia. Should you need a fourth base, Congo is a suitable location.
With three bases and radar towers, you should able to monitor most of the land on the planet, save for Antarctica.
With four bases and radar towers, you WILL be able to monitor EVERY single square inch of the planet - save for Antarctica, again. Who cares for those penguins anyway :D
First one is a mixed base, second or third one a research base.
Base defending is actually rather easy. Just make sure every single base you own has eight healthy soldier wearing combat armors.
You will need them, because - unlike in UFO:EU - aliens ARE going to find out where your bases are, even if you don't launch a single interception mission (that's what happens to me, at least).
(edited, typo)
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My plan is to build bases so that I have complete radar coverage over the entire world, which is possible. Leave extra room between them because eventually you'll research better radar that will increase each ones range.
Base 1: One of three places, Middle of the good'ol USA :), middle or Europe, or the middle of Asia, closer to the Pacific than Europe. This base holds my A team and usually ends up being a hybrid that specializes in research. Usually put two interceptors here.
Base 2: One of two places I didn't put my first base, usually on the other side of the Atlantic. This one holds my B team and will be a hybrid base of production and research. Two interceptors here too.
Base 3: The last of the three places mentioned. Now I go with a full production center and maybe in the mid game start working on a C team.
Base 4/5: Middle of Africa, Middle of South America. These bases will also be production oriented for later on building aircraft, with room for large hangers. They will also have a little research (because you can never have enough research) and a lot of storage for materials to build the aircraft with.
Rest of bases are mostly radar and storage facilities that cover the rest of the world, like in Australia, North Pole. I may or may not man them. The game is usually over before I feel like building the last base.
I build UFO storage facilities at each of them. I like to build SAM traps around one or two bases, with SAMs everywhere. They will miss a lot of UFO's, but when one flies through one it's fun to watch it get beat up continuously. It's even sweater when a harvester changes direction as it's just about ready to fly out of the trap only to fly back through it. :) Another reason I don't try to build SAM's around every base is because one SAM site can't usually bring down a UFO, so when a UFO attacks a base, it's almost always going to get through. If you consider that if you tried to protect each base, you'd only have 2/3 per site, and that's not enough to shoot down a UFO before it reaches the base, unless you build a lot of defenses along with it too, but that takes up valuable real estate. I'd rather just kill the aliens once they land in a base defense mission.
To be honest, it doesn't matter too much where you place your bases. You'll be intercepting plenty of UFO's if you want to and fighting them on the ground. The more you spread out your bases though, the more chance you'll have to detect them. Sometimes, having complete coverage is a pain because you're always tracking a UFO somewhere and sometimes you just want time to pass for research to finish.
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So far? I mostly lose before I can get the second base operational.
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How do you lose?
Aliens wiping out your bases or funding nations discontinuing support of PHALANX project?
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I spend more cash trying to keep interceptors up in the air than I gain selling tech. If I let them land, the bottom drops out of my funding. Frankly it's easiest when the aliens come knocking.
I think there should be at least some cash value even for a crashed Alien ship. A fraction of the pittance it sells for already would be fine, but even crashed there's alloys and such of value.
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Huh, I've always been able to sell crashed UFOs, don't know if that changed at all in 2.5?
Do the interceptors cost lots because you are losing them, or is it just the missiles that are too costly? Once you get the ariel laser you should swap out all/most of the weapons with it, since it doesn't use ammo.
And don't try shooting down harvesters either, they are worth much more to you intact anyway, if you keep them in your UFO yard.
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Headquarters I build in eastern Europe. Next I build a base really near as a pure workshop base. My Headquarters base has all my labs and workshops churn out goods (I leave the workshop at head quater to churn out ammo). After that I build five more in order, China, USA, Africa (South), South America and then Australia. I never use air defence (I even sell the first interceptor at the start) I have a squad at each base and when attacked, kill them and sell their ship. Better than a somali pirate operation.
I used this too. I build the HQ at Slovakia, my workshops at Poland, an airbase at Kamchatka (Russia) or Korea, another airbase at Venezuela and the final airbase at India. Australia is the home of one of my radar bases (no garrison, only radar, CC and energy), a radar base at Canada (west coast) and another radar base at Namibia or Angola.
Antartica is covered by a radar post, and the Patagonia (Argentina´s southern land) is covered by a radar post too. All radar post or bases are covered by 3 SAMs and my HQ/Workshop base is covered by another 3 SAMs too. The Air bases relay on their missile/laser defense (2 missile/1 laser) and the fighter wing.
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I'm in 2.4 and frankly it's not the missile cost, but the fact that I'll send the interceptor after one target and get ambushed by a second and lose it because they're universally faster. Or the drop ship is on it's way to a target and get's wiped out.
And I don't know why, but I never get the option to sell crashes, only landings.
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it's not the missile cost, but the fact that I'll send the interceptor after one target and get ambushed by a second and lose it because they're universally faster.
One of the first things I always do is to build two extra small hangars, so that I have 3 interceptors at a base. So when a ufo is detected, I send all 3 interceptors from the same base at it. Then the chance of shooting it down increases considerably.
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I'll give that a shot.
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tried to get full and continuous land coverage with 7 bases and failed.
the gap over greenland was not intended.
should have built the north american base a bit more to the east.
edit: looked at it again, and it seems my eyes were playing tricks on me previously, and the continous radar coverage in this screenshot was ok (the thing that looked like a gap over greenland is the outer radar range circles).
the point of continuous radar coverage was not loosing sight of an ufo that has been spotted (except over pacific).
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Well, such small gap could be filled by radar tower.
As I wrote before, 3 bases+3 radars are enough to cover around 90% of populated areas, good enough.
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discovered i had a save from before building the last two bases, so maybe i will do an improved version of the same thing.
does anyone know if multiple radars in the same base will improve the detection rate?
@ Sarin:
a screenshot of the result, maybe?
otherwise i would need to play the game to see what it really looks like.
while at it, is there a way to remove the hud from the screenshot, so that the whole map could be displayed?
i vaguely remember there might have been such thing, but couldn't find it.
maybe i am wrong, but i feel like the installations have other uses than being radar towers.
1) i want most bases to have an ufo yard.
because i find it reasonable to dismantle ufo-s in bases with antimatter consuming crafts, for convenience (using saracens with particle beam for most ufo-s, and a dragon being the third interceptor for tougher fights).
maybe that is partly because i don't know if and how fast spinners work in 2.5.
2) i want ufo dumps on small islands, meaning about 4 sam sites at one spot, dropping ufo-s into the sea.
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I'll post screenie later, I have yet to rebuild that setup in my game.
Also, I've intentionally compromised areas with low population density, so there are significant gaps. east Siberia, northern part of Canada, Antarctic, Arctic and Greenland are not covered because of that. Also, New Zealand got out of coverage somehow...
But as I said, over 90% of population should be covered.
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But wouldn't you agree that good positions for the bases depend also on the campain events? I mean, theorically it seems not so useful to cover Oceania when North US is very more populated. But the North US proved for me to keep more stable on happiness, and not so much targeted by aliens.
Maybe, but it is only a supposition I make, it is important to cover the lands depending on 3 factors :
- the knowledge you have of the campain events
- the fact that aliens seem to begin by invading some areas not depending on the population amount but on their ability to defend themselves or not - Oceania rather than USA obviously
- the maneer you decide to play regarding to air coverage or missile coverage; bases dedicated to researsh or crafting have not the same role than airports for your ships
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thought of making a second attempt at the radar coverage from a bit earlier save than the last, but noticed the previous radar coverage didn't really have a gap over greenland, so the base placement is all solid.
@krilain: you might want to take a look at the real financing in the statistics, and you will certainly notice what you might want to cover first, and it will probably not be north america.
can't go wrong with covering your greatest credits source first.
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@krilain: you might want to take a look at the real financing in the statistics, and you will certainly notice what you might want to cover first, and it will probably not be north america.
can't go wrong with covering your greatest credits source first.
I didn't say that I would cover North Am. first, actually I cover South Am. before, with base, radar, and a missile rack.
But allow me to introduce a funny remark about the role of North America in funding through the happiness counter. As explained (below from a remark due to Kurja on an other topic), some nations seem to have more influence than the others according to the happiness criterion.
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i start in asia (the greatest money source) and build the second base somewhere near central america (well, unless i want a perfect base without interceptors and firebird, that is. in this case first base at the island near antarctica and the second base in asia).
as for nation happiness it is enough to build just two bases, one in asia and the second in central america, and most nations will be exuberant.
this would let you save money from not having to pay upkeep for too many bases.
assuming you start using energy weapons (PB ;), laser) on your interceptors as soon as possible, you also don't need to pay a lot for sparrowhawk missiles.
and when you have gathered about 2 billion cash then you can build the rest of the bases at once and get radar coverage sooner that way.
btw the question about multiple radars in same base having higher detection rate (or not) is still without any answer or hint about it, i wonder which should be the right forum to ask it, tech support or what? or should i start a separate thread about it in tactics?
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For multiple radars in a base the percentaces do not add up. But each radar has its own chances of detecting the UFO.
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For multiple radars in a base the percentaces do not add up. But each radar has its own chances of detecting the UFO.
Is it written in the tips of the day that a radar left on its own has only a probability inferior to 1 to detect an UFO? I dont remember, but if not, it is to be added I think.
Edit : I checked the wiki page and found only this one related to radars :
"_You can increase a base's radar range by building an advanced radar facility. Remember that you have to research it first!"
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But each radar has its own chances of detecting the UFO.
This isn't true! If we are speaking about radar buildings in a base. 2 radar buildings are the same as 1. Only the max building level (normal/advanced) matters and only in detection/tracking range.
-geever
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This isn't true! If we are speaking about radar buildings in a base. 2 radar buildings are the same as 1. Only the max building level (normal/advanced) matters and only in detection/tracking range.
-geever
So the tip of the day should be : Don't waste your money in building many radars in a single base, for you would pay for not any advantage.
(Of course in a better english)
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So the tip of the day should be : Don't waste your money in building many radars in a single base, for you would pay for not any advantage.
(Of course in a better english)
We will not add anything like that.
Building an advanced radar beside the normal one is good for the time it finishes, after that point it is wise to remove the old one to reduce upkeep cost. This system can change in the future, I just described how it works currently.
-geever
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thanks for the clarification about the multiple radars, it has been years that i have been puzzled about it (not that i have been playing actively all that time).
i was thinking like: in an average base i want 2 saracens, 1 dragon, 1 firebird, 2 workshops for dismantling (to fuel the dragon that is used against harvesters).
so i would have free space for, say, more radars.
with more radars having better detection, the game would become more or less impossible to win (because ufo-s cannot land and create a base).
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2 saracens, isn't that kinda too much? They're good only against fighters, supply ships and scouts, on anything bigger you need either mob them or AM powered fighter. Hell, even if you have stiletto+saracen, you need a good SAM fire to get Harvester down.
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as i wrote, i use dragon against harvester.
i use 2 saracens against fighter because i don't want my saracens to take much damage.
because the next fighter might appear soon.
maybe this habit is a remnant from the time the ufo-s were more abundant.
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thanks for the clarification about the multiple radars, it has been years that i have been puzzled about it (not that i have been playing actively all that time).
Hehe, I had to look it up in the code either. :)
-geever
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First base I build in midwest Turkey, which gets me all of Europe (except Iceland, Svalbard and the part of Greenland that belongs to Europe), damn near all of the Middle East, and parts of Russia and Africa as well. That lets me keep four of eight sponsors happy right off the bat. This base gets 2 workshops, 4 labs and 2 interceptors to begin with. Later on, I may take down some of the labs for more interceptors, since two interceptors have trouble bringing down harvesters.
The second base is in northern Thailand, getting me almost all of Asia (except Japan, unfortunately) and part of Oceania, including India. This base gets no research, but 4 workshops (maybe 5, but 4 would be neater as far as use of living quarters is concerned).
I plan for all of my bases to have garrisons and interceptors. I don't plan to use SAM bases much (unless I later find out I need to) and I don't plan to spend any base slots on base defense weapons. Having soldiers in every base spreads the precious EXP rather thin, though, so maybe I'll limit myself to 16-24 soldiers total which I hire to whichever base I currently need them at. But I'm pretty far from having to worry about that - it's only May and I just got the second base's radar operational.
For all of you who like to play around with base layouts, check out my Easy Radar Rangefinding mod in the mods section. It makes trying out base locations a lot more convenient. I used it to work out the layout in the attached screenshot, which I plan to use. It's designed to maximize detection coverage on all the landmasses, not just population hotspots. I may still shift the order of base building around, and I'll probably move the russia base a little more northeast if I build it that late, to get less redundant landmass and cover more ocean instead. Hmm... maybe I should also drop a radar tower on Hawaii... that's bound to be in the Cities list, right? ;D
(About Dragons: How difficult are they to keep fed? Does each unit of fuel they have in their status screen require one unit of antimatter?)
(About starting aircraft: which do you prefer, Stilettos or Saracens, and why?)
(About aircraft parameters: Is the 'damage' parameter in the script files the hitpoint value? Does the 'range' parameter determine weapon range? I thought the weapon alone determines the range...)
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(About Dragons: How difficult are they to keep fed? Does each unit of fuel they have in their status screen require one unit of antimatter?)
I think each unit of fuel is one antimatter. Not sure though. By the time I got Dragons I found it pretty easy to keep them supplied, but I run a pretty heavy production line. Was around 40 workers when I built my first dragon, now at 80 (Nov 1).
(About starting aircraft: which do you prefer, Stilettos or Saracens, and why?)
Personally, stilettos. They're better fighters early on and I usually can't take advantage of a Saracen's long distance coverage anyway. By the time they get to the other side of the planet, the UFO I saw will be gone. If you use interceptors to patrol, though, then it's probably the best craft because it can stay in the air longer.
(About aircraft parameters: Is the 'damage' parameter in the script files the hitpoint value? Does the 'range' parameter determine weapon range? I thought the weapon alone determines the range...)
Yes, damage = hitpoints. Range determines how far it gets on a single tank of fuel, I believe. Check out the commented section at the top of aircraftmanagent.ufo. It describes all or most of the parameters.
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I think each unit of fuel is one antimatter. Not sure though. By the time I got Dragons I found it pretty easy to keep them supplied, but I run a pretty heavy production line. Was around 40 workers when I built my first dragon, now at 80 (Nov 1).
I see. Then I guess I probably won't have too much trouble if I keep dismantling those harvesters. Can you transfer antimatter from base to base once you have antimatter storage in multiple bases?
Personally, stilettos. They're better fighters early on and I usually can't take advantage of a Saracen's long distance coverage anyway. By the time they get to the other side of the planet, the UFO I saw will be gone. If you use interceptors to patrol, though, then it's probably the best craft because it can stay in the air longer.
Unfortunately, patrolling works for UFOs in the air only, at least for now, so it's of limited use. I've been using Stilettos so far because they can carry more weapons. As far as air-to-air combat in this game is concerned, the best policy seems to be "do unto others before they do unto you"...
Thanks for answering my questions!
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Can you transfer antimatter from base to base once you have antimatter storage in multiple bases?
Yes.