UFO:Alien Invasion
General => Tactics => Topic started by: Tamanfodder on December 16, 2010, 01:26:42 pm
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Base invasion. It is one hell of a problem. When the aliens invade your base, first thing you notice is that the base is HUGE! A LOT of ground to cower for 8 soldiers. Any tips or strategies how to defend your base??? Share them here! How to succesfully design a base, where to put enterances, which bulidings have access to the surface allowing aliens to walk in... .etc.
I myself hawe been putting living guaterses near important rooms since your soldiers start from theese living guarterses...
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my 2 cents...
In my perspective the problem is not the base extension - which is the only map with perfect extension for my gamestyle (and X-Com nostalgy) but the 8vs8 limit. Which will be changed perhaps to 16+UGV (if I understood correctly, forgive me if not). More soliders = more cover
Another possible approach is to make as the other maps - the map is assembled only with the first near squares to the main entrance. Eyesight in 1-turn and shoot,shoot,shoot.
Another approach: for each base building description write down if it has or not a roof access. Novice players will be able to organize better defences without have to experiment on the field.
As regarding to the base defence mission I found myself in another kind of problem - half the squad wasn't equipped, but the armors were all usd up for the 8-team in the aircraft. So I had 4 half-equipped (and 2 half wonded) defenders. Did I miss something or it is not possible (for now) to choose the defenders?
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As regarding to the base defence mission I found myself in another kind of problem - half the squad wasn't equipped, but the armors were all usd up for the 8-team in the aircraft. So I had 4 half-equipped (and 2 half wonded) defenders. Did I miss something or it is not possible (for now) to choose the defenders?
In that point (If it didn't changed) to defend Your base are token first 8 people in the base. Maybe this is the problem?
After all, it isn't silly that when radar engage some UFO's flighting on course to PHALANX base, there aren't any preparations to defend the base?
Cheers, Adzik
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Luckyly there is a way to stop about 80% of the base invasion aptempts! The base defence laser turret almost all the time manages to shoot the attacking UFO down juust before it reaches the base! Since the attacking UFOs are almost always fighters, they can`t take the laser mauling too much!
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In that point (If it didn't changed) to defend Your base are token first 8 people in the base. Maybe this is the problem?
After all, it isn't silly that when radar engage some UFO's flighting on course to PHALANX base, there aren't any preparations to defend the base?
Cheers, Adzik
Well... complete randomness and complete possibility of choiche are both unrealistic. I suppose that soliders can't stay wake 24/24 hrs, but in a real situation drill turns would be organized rationally, giving equipment to the patrolling soliders if the ones assigned to the vehicle are sleeping. And should exclude wounded soliders provided there are enough not wounded... hhhm... a sleep-wake system for agents would be the cherry on the top of the cake :O
Anyway it's true, the radar could give some time for preparations (wake up, wash teeth, load the flamethrower, put on the armor). Perhaps the ufo will only fly nearby and go away... ok unload flamethrower, take off the armor, go back to bed.
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Don't forget that we live in 2084 year ;-)
I realize, that everything is spinning over financial priorities, BUT we should choose (if there are more than 8 soliders in base) those, who gonna defend the base e.g. in drop ship every assigned solider MUST go on a mission independently of his/her health. I think, we can use randomize mechanism to give some randomness within defending base. The heart of it should check the chance of each solider in mission. If he's wounded, the chance is lower, if he's asleep - lower, if he's woken up - the chance is higher.
This idea is related with individualized equipment of each solider. (@greever mentioned somewhere about it, or something mismatch in my head). Everyone know, what to take and smash or make a cheese from aliens.
P.S. Sorry for my English, I'm from Poland and still learning.
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Well most likely in case of a base invasion soldiers aren`t allowed to sleep! I think that the ridicilous size of the base on many floors could be compensated if you would be allowed to use each and every one of the soldiers in base! For example if you hawe 8 active soldiers and 8 replacements (in case of injuries/deaths) you could throw 16 soldiers to kick the alien arse! This would make it a good idea to hawe a moderately large (20 - 30) "inactive" soldiers on base in case of some poor little aliens trying to get in! I mean nothing is more annoying than the thought of aliens running loose on your base! That is the one place you should and must have the upper hand on materiel, manpower and morale!
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Well most likely in case of a base invasion soldiers aren`t allowed to sleep! I think that the ridicilous size of the base on many floors could be compensated if you would be allowed to use each and every one of the soldiers in base! For example if you hawe 8 active soldiers and 8 replacements (in case of injuries/deaths) you could throw 16 soldiers to kick the alien arse! This would make it a good idea to hawe a moderately large (20 - 30) "inactive" soldiers on base in case of some poor little aliens trying to get in! I mean nothing is more annoying than the thought of aliens running loose on your base! That is the one place you should and must have the upper hand on materiel, manpower and morale!
WTF! 20-30 soldiers for base defending??
1. It would be boring to control them, noone would do it.
2. It would make PHALANX overpowered
-geever
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Ignore my last... ...and possibly this post! Im a bit too sleepy to write anything with any point! But the base is still too big to defend with 8 soldiers...
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I do Auto Missions. I reload if there is a casualty. The problem here is if your last save is so far back.
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XCOM Apocalypse had a very different flavor in this. You could install automated in base cannons, and so, the defenders would be at an advantage. They really did it good that time since the aliens would target the non unit cannons in an attempt to damage them. Also, late game base raids, if possible, would be humongous in the game, with hundreds of rocket and disruptor armed aliens swarming, making base automated cannons a must.
In 2080's, it shouldn't be hard to add a few automated miniguns in base doors.
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Even without automatic defenses it would be nice to have at least some detection, like IR-sensors, so soldiers wouldn't have to peek at every corner.
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My two cents would be to allow control of 8-10 soldiers with the remaining cadre being computer controlled. Plus, you may have a stray worker, pilot, or scientist get caught in the firefight such as the civilians during the alien missions. You lose a worker, pilot or scientist, you would have a "job opening" and suffer the loss of that individual. Computer controlled soldiers fire and defend similar to the aliens, hopefully they want shoot your own sqaudies. Anyway, my two cents worth.
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My two cents would be to allow control of 8-10 soldiers with the remaining cadre being computer controlled. Plus, you may have a stray worker, pilot, or scientist get caught in the firefight such as the civilians during the alien missions. You lose a worker, pilot or scientist, you would have a "job opening" and suffer the loss of that individual. Computer controlled soldiers fire and defend similar to the aliens, hopefully they want shoot your own sqaudies. Anyway, my two cents worth.
workers, pilots, scientists are evacuated in time. They shouldn't fight. We will allow playing wit h more than eight soldiers but there are still some limits we needs to cross for it. I think AI will only control aliens and civs for quite a while (years)...
-geever
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Even without automatic defenses it would be nice to have at least some detection, like IR-sensors, so soldiers wouldn't have to peek at every corner.
Yes. Why no cameras? I'm also upset at seeing surface posts. The entire base should be underground, tightly sealed with one entrance ridden with chainguns.
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A bit off topic...
I had a base with laser and missile battery - but with no troops - that was suddenly destroyed by aliens, no sign of them arriving in that area before it happend.... how the hell should they have reached my base???
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A bit off topic...
I had a base with laser and missile battery - but with no troops - that was suddenly destroyed by aliens, no sign of them arriving in that area before it happend.... how the hell should they have reached my base???
Did you equip the defence systems?
Also aliens can attack without UFO activity if they built bases.
-geever
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Yes, the defence systems, both laser and missiles, were active...
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With ammunitions?
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With ammunitions?
For base defense weapons you don't manage the ammunition anymore. But my other guess still stands: maybe they came without their fancy UFO.
-geever
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at the moment, is it possible to defend a base having troops but not a transport craft?
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It should.
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at the moment, is it possible to defend a base having troops but not a transport craft?
Yes it is. You can equip and fight with the first eight soldier on the base if attacked (speaking about 2.3+).
-geever
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Ok, thanks a lot guys! This game is a very good job ;)
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Personally I find base invasion missions overly tedious. The bases are huge and it takes far too long, especially when you can't save. Hunting for that last bloody alien has got to be the most boring part of the game.
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in 2.3 I just hire 1 soldier for each base. Don't even need guns. Just auto the base defense, and you'll win almost every time. I don't think I've ever seen a loss.
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Personally I find base invasion missions overly tedious. The bases are huge and it takes far too long, especially when you can't save. Hunting for that last bloody alien has got to be the most boring part of the game.
IR goggles help a lot, but yeah... It's a bother...
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I draw a 5*5 grid on a piece of paper and keep track of where I've been through, then just send one guy through each square with react fire. Yeah - it takes an hour or more.
My vote would be to just plain have the bases max out at 4*4, unless you can make the alien AI start actually sweeping the base offensively.
Also - workers, pilots and scientists should be present as civilians and possibly die, and all have some stats so you could use them if not enough soldiers were around (think 1/2 of a trained soldier).
Mainly it's an AI problem - they're not aggressive and don't move much if there's no enemy units nearby.
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in 2.3 I just hire 1 soldier for each base. Don't even need guns. Just auto the base defense, and you'll win almost every time. I don't think I've ever seen a loss.
This (the auto mission trick) may work for the moment, but will soon change. ;)
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in 2.3 I just hire 1 soldier for each base. Don't even need guns. Just auto the base defense, and you'll win almost every time. I don't think I've ever seen a loss.
And that is simply wrong and shouldn't be that way. It may not be a bug, but it's certainly a design flaw.
Personally I find base invasion missions overly tedious. The bases are huge and it takes far too long, especially when you can't save. Hunting for that last bloody alien has got to be the most boring part of the game.
Absolutely. I'd love to see a larger amount of aliens per mission overall, and especially in later base defense missions - coupled with a more aggressive map-wide AI that actually has the aliens *drum roll please* ...HUNTING YOU.
Or smaller bases. Or redesign the base map tiles to all, every single damn tile - have a clear path E-W and N-S. There shouldn't be a single base tile that you'd need to take a tortuous path through, especially given that there are sometimes four levels to the damn thing. I'll clear a section of the base and then wonder - did I really clear that bathroom or the downstairs portion - or what if the alien was right on top and then dropped down below my sweeping skirmish line?? One single little unlucky miss with an alien in an out-of-sight spot could conceivably lead to having to sweep all three levels of the base, AGAIN.
Unlikely, but could happen if an alien got stuck demoralized and didn't move much right as you sweep past.
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I'm not sure what everyone is talking about with the AI not being aggressive enough... The aliens automatically know where your troops are and will make a bee-line straight for them. Positioning your troops at the bottom of some surface-access point with reaction fire and flamers will take care of just about everything. Just be sure the aliens can find a way down to your troops. The one time I actually had to sweep my own base to find the last alien, it's because I had left an injured soldier hiding safely in the living quarters. It took forever, but when I finally found the last alien, it was standing directly above my wounded soldier. The alien got as close to his target as he could, but couldn't figure out that he'd have to go several turns out of his way to get to the stairs. Now, I bring all my soldiers to the main entrance when I do a base defence mission. I just leave the injured ones directly below the ramp so that they can't be shot, but they still lure the aliens in.
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Just had a Bloodspider sit on the other side of the map doing nothing in full view of my troops, for several turns. Harvester ships are notorious for having the last alien on the map just hang around the top level until you're actually inside the ship with him. Sure it's fun the first five times, but eventually it gets a bit old.
Straight beeline aggressive AI leads to gameplay that heavily favours just making a skirmish line and sitting in react fire - I don't think anyone wants that. What might work best is having an AI that gives "points" to an alien that finishes a turn in some proximity to another alien. Giving this too much weight would of course wreck the whole AI with aliens just clustering around each other singing "Kum-ba-yaa". I'm guessing this is already implemented (I tend to have smart ideas after other people do) and just needs tweaking here and there.
At the same time, there's been numerous times in base defenses that I've had to clear the entire base down below and then send people up top to clear the above-ground area. Not fun. That's not an issue with aliens not getting close enough - it's as you said, an issue with the AI not figuring out it has to be able to get a free path.
In addition, I forget which base map tile it is - single-person wide staircase leading up from right to left, where I'm always unable to walk up the stairs. Bug, I guess.
The real simple solution to this conundrum is not very drastic and doesn't require messing with AI or behaviour. Just put a fricking doorway into the middle of the tilesets that have walls to prevent you from seeing and walking in a straight line through each tileset. BAM. Problem solved. Now you can just run from one end of the base to the other in a straight line ...almost, anyway.
As it stands, I skip a base defense unless it's a small base. Too much headache and not enough fun. There's too many "average" always-the-same gameplay missions as is.
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I draw a 5*5 grid on a piece of paper and keep track of where I've been through, then just send one guy through each square with react fire. Yeah - it takes an hour or more.
My vote would be to just plain have the bases max out at 4*4, unless you can make the alien AI start actually sweeping the base offensively.
Also - workers, pilots and scientists should be present as civilians and possibly die, and all have some stats so you could use them if not enough soldiers were around (think 1/2 of a trained soldier).
Mainly it's an AI problem - they're not aggressive and don't move much if there's no enemy units nearby.
If pilot are present and scientist we should be able to command them and to equip them with weapons.
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REMFs are packed into the shelters under every barracks and they're not coming out till the all clear is sounded. The only good they'd do in a fight would be meatshields without training and quite frankly, I'm pretty sure the folks behind your funding wouldn't appreciate them dying.
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My top tip on base invasions is to design your base right first. Aliens usually come down through the Large Hanger or the Entrance. If you make sure the Large hanger is next to the Entrance and all the Living Quarters are near the Entrance your soldiers will be in a good position at the start and the aliens will charge down to get shot.
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My top tip on base invasions is to design your base right first. Aliens usually come down through the Large Hanger or the Entrance. If you make sure the Large hanger is next to the Entrance and all the Living Quarters are near the Entrance your soldiers will be in a good position at the start and the aliens will charge down to get shot.
Exactly. This is a strategy game, so... it must be played in that way. Only build your entrances away from the rest of the base.
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There are two things base defense mission need:
1) selecting defending troops (if aline ships was detected on radar)
2) selecting the living quarters from which to start.
I got a sado-randomizer combo - the HQ was auto-generated with the power plant and command center right next to the entrance.
When the aliens attack, my wounded and reserves were selected for defense (despite my dropship being loaded with troops who were hogging all the good equipment).
Lastly, my starting position was on the other side of the base.
Had the aliens actually tried to blow up my power plant, it would have been a game over immediately.
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Had the aliens actually tried to blow up my power plant, it would have been a game over immediately.
do the aliens blow up anything at all in the base at the moment?
we don't have civilians in the base defense, maybe we should have some immobile civilians that "look exactly like" some equipment in command center or in power plant (the models exist already...), so that the aliens might target those.
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I always set my base up so that only the entrance connects to the hangars, with the storage room between the entrance and my bunk rooms. perfect chokepoint
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What are the entry points in 2.4? Main entrance and large hangar, anything else?
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What are the entry points in 2.4? Main entrance and large hangar, anything else?
(Small) radar. Don't know, if the workshop door is fixed in 2.4.
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I got a sado-randomizer combo - the HQ was auto-generated with the power plant and command center right next to the entrance.
When the aliens attack, my wounded and reserves were selected for defense (despite my dropship being loaded with troops who were hogging all the good equipment).
Lastly, my starting position was on the other side of the base.
I thought some troops were guaranteed to spawn in the Command Center in 2.4. Certainly I always make sure to stick the Command Center next to the entrance (because it needs to be built early and is a soldier spawn point).
~J
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Base design to perfectly handle base assaults:
align all hangars + entrance at once side, spread all quarters (usually not exceeding 3 except science base possibly) close to it, concentrated on the middle of the base map. to design the base like that could mean a little more waiting constructing a new base, but imho its worth it on any assault. choose other more open buildings (like stocks) to finish the coverage of hangars and so on, so that 1-2 soldiers at least can observe that area. avoid complicated buildings like quarantine close to it as you'd need 3 soldiers at least to cover it. the rest is done by some waiting near the entrances.
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(Small) radar. Don't know, if the workshop door is fixed in 2.4.
large hangar, entrance, radar.
does anyone know about the workshop?
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Exactly. Three pages to get the most basic solution; design your bases for defense.
Aliens only come in through the entrance, large hanger, and the basic radar tower. Rebuild your radar to advanced later to get rid of one more spot, though the radar tower can be an excellent sniper spot. Early on I try to get a couple guys there fast to start picking them off at the entrance, because radar is often near the entrance. Your troops often spawn in your living quarters, so build 2 close to the entrance. Use the entrance as your choke point. This means you lose a few spots of area to build in, but it's worth it for the ease of defense, and you can always build more bases. Most of the time, they come in through the entrance. I haven't had any spawn inside the command center or anywhere inside the base.
Once the attack starts, get your guys to the entrance choke point and stake out all corridors coming from it, if designed right, will not be more than 2. Deal with any aliens as they come down, try to entice them if you can. While you deal with them, send 3 or 4 of your guys on ahead to try to take the radar tower or large hanger so you can flank the ones at the entrance. If you've designed your base right, there won't be very many corridors and a 2x2 squad arrangement for them will get you there without leaving any place unsearched.
Base defense is simple if you plan for it. Should take no longer than any other mission.
EDITED: Troop spawn points.
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Those are excellent points.
In fact, I think perhaps there should be an element of AI assistance when building a base - the computer could "suggest" spots to lay down stuff to you (with translucent "ghosts" or some such) which you could follow as a newbie, or ignore if you (like I) relish the challenge of base invasions (they're so rare...)
As another aside, I've always thought that the basemaps should have equipment accessible to the player on the map, eg an armoury or lockers in the living quarters that your crew can get more stuff from - after all this is their homeground... it'd be nice to grab more ammo, or maybe pick up a more kick ass weapon or something - like you would in real life if your base is under assault
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Your troops always spawn in your living quarters
This is not true. Last time I played a base defence mission my men were spawned in hospital and command centre, none of them in living quarters.
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This is not true. Last time I played a base defence mission my men were spawned in hospital and command centre, none of them in living quarters.
Fixed. In this last game on 2.4, probably 5 or 6 base defenses, I don't recall any time when they spawned somewhere other than the living quarters. Point taken though and I modified my post.
The strategy still works though as those buildings should still be built on the other side of the entrance from the hangars... if possible. Sometimes the starting entrance isn't in a good position for that, but they should be close to the entrance at least.
I wonder if your chars spawn in the hospital if any of them are injured? Or maybe if you have a high ranking officer then they spawn in the command center? It may also have to do with how many living quarters you have. If you only have one living quarter, it will put 4 in there, and the other 4 will need to go somewhere else.
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Fixed. In this last game on 2.4, probably 5 or 6 base defenses, I don't recall any time when they spawned somewhere other than the living quarters. Point taken though and I modified my post.
The strategy still works though as those buildings should still be built on the other side of the entrance from the hangars... if possible. Sometimes the starting entrance isn't in a good position for that, but they should be close to the entrance at least.
I wonder if your chars spawn in the hospital if any of them are injured? Or maybe if you have a high ranking officer then they spawn in the command center? It may also have to do with how many living quarters you have. If you only have one living quarter, it will put 4 in there, and the other 4 will need to go somewhere else.
That happened rather early in the game, so no high officers among them. I select only uninjured soldiers for missions, here in case of base defence I'm not sure if one or two would have had light wounds. They were spawned 4 in cc, 4 in hospital. That base has 2 living quarters.