UFO:Alien Invasion
Development => Mapping => Topic started by: tilli on November 15, 2010, 08:51:00 pm
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Hi
Did some new mapping. Very easy stuff. As I intend to make the whole package usable for RMA, all parts are along the 256x256 grid.
I simply assembled most of the tiles in one map. More tiles are in the works.
Tilli
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For those who want to look at the map data itself.
Tilli
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Looks cool tilli. It would be nice if we could use these tiles with the current +forest RMA. You'll just need to change the ground texture to match the current +forest tiles (tex_nature/grass_mowed_dry_c).
There seems to be something wrong with the tree models you're using (fir). It looks like there's a draw order problem. Mattn may know more about this, but I don't think it's something you can fix on your end (screenshot attached). They're also too small
Feel free to give a little more love to those hills. They're quite pointy and the engine can handle a lot more brushes, so you can smooth them out a bit.
Also, the trees seem to be grouped into types. Maybe they should be scattered a bit more so there are big and small and different types of trees together.
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Hi H-Hour
As usual, thanks for the comments.
Obviously this is still work in progress.
Of course I will change the ground to match the current +forest tiles. Why didn't I think of that myself, stupid me?
That some of the trees are smaller is no surprise. I scaled them. Not sure what you mean by draw order problem.
Tree variation and better hills are also in the works.
tilli
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Thanks for the contribution! Very nice to see it.
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I run into a problem
I want to add a tile to the +forest map
I located the forest.ump and added the following:
tile +h5
{
3 3
0 abfgu 0
acdgu +a acefu
0 abdeu 0
}
and in assembly
+h5 "1 1"
What that gets me when a call the map is a drop to the main menu.
the log gives me the message: could not find ~/fr_h5.bsp
if I create a fr_h5.bsp the map runs fine
all the other parts are .map, so why does my part have to be .bsp
Where is my mistake???
Thanks
Tilli
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A bsp is a compiled .map file and the game can only read those. You create a .map file then compile it into a .bsp (http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Mapping/Compile) for the game.
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ok, I solfed the .map / .bsp confusion
But run into another problem:
my forest. ump looks like follows
///** tilesets
tileset forest_11a {
+f1
+f2
+f7
+f8
+a1
}
tileset forest_11b {
+f31
+f34
+f35
+f36
+f37
+f38
+f39
+f40
//+f41
//+f42
//+f43
//+f44
}
assembly small
{
title "_Little forest"
size "5 10"
tileset forest_11a "0 30"
tileset forest_11b "0 30"
}
If I increase the number of tiles in a single tileset to greater than 8 (like activating +f41, putting more then 8 tiles in the first tileset also gets the same result), then I get a crash to desktop with the following ufoconsole.log
2010/11/18 11:17:39Change gametype to 'Skirmish mode'
2010/11/18 11:17:47Starting skirmish with 8 soldiers and 0 ugvs
2010/11/18 11:17:47------- Loading game.dll -------
2010/11/18 11:17:47not found at '/usr/local/lib'
2010/11/18 11:17:47not found at 'C:\Dokumente und Einstellungen\Tilman\Anwendungsdaten\UFOAI/2.4-dev/base'
2010/11/18 11:17:47found at './base'
2010/11/18 11:17:47==== InitGame ====
Could it be, that there is a limit on how many tiles you can put in a tileset???
Thanks
Tilli
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you are right - the max is 8 here and there was no overflow check yet - but this is fixed now
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thanks mattn for the fast reply.
Another question came up, seems the norm with this mapping project :-)
How is the order of placement of the aliens determined?
What happens if I have two alien starting places on different tiles but only one alien to assign, where does he start?
tilli
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You can randomize it by setting the randomspawn property of the worldspawn entity. But this must be set on every single tile in the RMA.
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just so i understood correctly
if i set randomspawn on every tile which has an alien starting point,
then 5 aliens with 10 starting points would appear every time in a different combination?
even if the starting points are on different tiles?
Do none alien tiles also need the randomspawn?
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That's my understanding of how it works. I haven't yet done it for +city to check.
Do none alien tiles also need the randomspawn?
That's a good question. Test and let us know! :) One of the joys of mapping for a game-in-progress. Many of the features have not really been fully tested.
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I need some testing :-). On my end the new tiles are working without problem. I packed the current version, so you can have a look. The whole thing is still WIP.
Can somebody please load the new +forest part and check if it also works on somebody else version/machine?
The package is at
http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/newforest.zip (http://devs.openttd.org/~planetmaker/patches/newforest.zip)
Please backup your files (forest folder, forest.ump, forest.mat) beforehand and make sure you put the new files in the correct folders.
And be careful, the aliens could be anywhere.
tilli
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I`ll take a look on this work. I also can commit it to the repo, if you want.
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Cool, I like the new tiles. I think that ground texture is too saturated, but I can change the texture later. Here's a long list of suggestions (many in attached images):
1. The trees are grouped together with similar trees too much. Ideally all the different kinds of trees/bushes should be spread around the whole map so that it looks like a diverse forest. One of the attached images shows how I would re-arrange one of the tiles. To do this right, you will need to edit the existing tiles as well. My recommendation would be to experiment on a very large tile (mabe 1024x1024) to get the right mix of trees/bushes, and then try and replicate that mix across all the tiles.
2. I like the smooth hills you've put in. I wish there were more of them and larger ones. Right now they're just a lump sticking out of an otherwise flat surface. It would be great if you had large hills across 512x512 or even larger, rather than packing them into small little mounds. I think it will make the map a lot more tactically interesting, and will remind me of the good ole X-Com hills.
3. There's an image showing a rectangular rocky outcrop. I like the idea of having a different texture up top, like grass, but the rocks are too rectangular.
4. In another attached image (next post), you can see that the tree shadow gets cut off at the edge of the tile. This is another reason why larger tiles can be better than smaller tiles. For instance, if I had to fix this in the repository, I would not want to have to open 50 tiles to figure out which one it is. With so many very similar tiles, it will be a real pain to maintain.
5. I highly recommend you don't rotate the ufo like you have with the fighter. First, you're missing the weaponclip brushes for it so those would all need to be recreated or imported and rotated to match the UFO exactly. Second, you end up with tons of wasted space around the ufo, places where the player feels like he ought to be able to go but can't. All of the UFOs are designed to fit in with the tile system, and they don't fit well at an angle. And third, you have some places in the UFO where a soldier overlaps the UFO's walls.
6. I like your new building, but the roofing kind of looks like you just got tired of it. I drew just a few lines to suggest more interesting roofing and a deck.
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More images
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Last batch of images
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Big thank you H-Hour
How is that saying in German: I didn't see the forest for the trees.
I'm pleased the maps are working as planned on your end, with the aliens randomly deployed on the map.
1. tree mix is something I'm experimenting on. And larger tiles too. Final version will have that.
2. The same goes for the hills. They are a recent addition and will be in nearly all map parts at the end.
5. Sorry, but the UFO tile is the original, except for the randomspawn. And in the fighter tile I rescued an alien from the top of a tree.
6. my old enemies the roofs :-). Of course I need to change that.
tilli
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Also, tilli, could you remove the envmap on the river texture from the forest material file? I know you didn't put it there, but if I remove it in repository it will probably be overwritten when we commit your versions. It's this code at the top:
{
material tex_nature/water
{
envmap 0
}
}
Not sure why it got put in there in the first place, but it doesn't look anything like water reflection.
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the next version, but still WIP
I reworked the tiles, changed layout and vegetation. Lots of small things.
All tiles now have an indicator, so I can identify them faster (final version will have them deleted).
http://rapidshare.com/files/440815483/newforest.zip
Please backup your files (forest folder, forest.ump, forest.mat) beforehand and make sure you put the new files in the correct folders.
Can somebody please check a bug I might have found with the randomize option. Just to make sure it is not my installation (2.4 dev IA 32 Nov 2 2010 Win32 Debug build 1288676501).
At my version this bug is only found in the campaign mode. Aliens get assigned randomly, civilians also. Phalanx troopers behave strange. The actors are not randomized, but the weapons loadout. Meaning my sniper always starts at the same position, but has a different weapon from another actor each time. It looks like weapons only are randomized.
tilli
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I dont understand your bugreport. But please open a ticket for this and we can have a look. It will get lost in this thread.
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rapidshare is evil. And anyway it is deleted now. Can you upload it somewhere else?
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sorry for my technological backwardness :-)
maybe this link will work better???:
http://www.mediafire.com/?2bxkez0g19n2xny
mattn: first I would like to have independent confirmation of my bug(?), then I will open a report.
tilli
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Yes, that`s better. I`ll look to it, and try to say something for you )
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mattn: first I would like to have independent confirmation of my bug(?), then I will open a report.
you maybe won't get that from a dev until you post a ticket ;)
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There is a hole in the ground in front of the crashed scout, maybe you can fix this while you work on the other forest tiles.
Can somebody please check a bug I might have found with the randomize option. Just to make sure it is not my installation (2.4 dev IA 32 Nov 2 2010 Win32 Debug build 1288676501).
At my version this bug is only found in the campaign mode. Aliens get assigned randomly, civilians also. Phalanx troopers behave strange. The actors are not randomized, but the weapons loadout. Meaning my sniper always starts at the same position, but has a different weapon from another actor each time. It looks like weapons only are randomized.
Yes, the equipment is randomized. Thats actualy one of my snipers with the assaultrifle in the screenshot.
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thanks for the confirmation of the bug, dodon.
and also thanks for finding the hole in the ground.
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it looks like you build your rocks with the csg tools - is that correct? better build them manually - the csg stuff can produce a lot of problems with tiny or big windings.
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it looks like you build your rocks with the csg tools - is that correct?
If you mean the brush -> cone and the brush -> rock then that is correct.
By the way, the hole with the scout is original, I haven't touched that tile except for the randomspawn flag.
better build them manually
Truth to be told, I haven't really figured out how to do a 21 sided object in uforadiant.
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create brush. Next use clipper tool to cut its corners and sides.
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Truth to be told, I haven't really figured out how to do a 21 sided object in uforadiant.
Hehe, good luck! Uforadiant is a pain for such things.
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if did a few changes
enlarging some tiles and adding some bushes, and fixing that hole by the scout
http://www.mediafire.com/?dc8g8xxbdlb91v6 (http://www.mediafire.com/?dc8g8xxbdlb91v6)
Please backup your files (forest folder, forest.ump, forest.mat) beforehand and make sure you put the new files in the correct folders.
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BTW dont u have access to Git?
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Btw, tilli, could we commit your work to the repo? I`d like to see it in game, if you don`t have any objections.
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@ kildor: if you want, you can put it in the repo. I won't have git for the next foreseeable future.
Just remember that the thing is still work in progress (I'm still reworking some tiles) and that there is the bug with the random equipment assignment.
And if you put somewhere a note that I'm responsible for that mess of +forest tiles, that would be nice.
For the official part: all the maps I created for UFO AI are hereby released under GNU GPL 2 or later.
That ok?
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Just remember that the thing is still work in progress (I'm still reworking some tiles) and that there is the bug with the random equipment assignment.
If you're still working on it, I think it is best not to add it to Git yet. It would be really great if you could get on Git at some point, because until then it's very hard to coordinate work. If we add your work to Git now, that will become the definitive copy, and you would need to make sure that you always updated the maps before doing any work on them. Otherwise, changes we make will just be overwritten later.
If you haven't already, please report the random equipment assignment bug on our sourceforge but tracker (https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=157793&atid=805242). This is likely a bug in the code, not your map files.
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Alright, I've finally gotten around to looking at this thing. It's a huge improvement over the old forest map. The hills add a lot of tactical variety to the map and the maps are actually substantially different from a gameplay point of view with each new RMA build. That's really great.
There are several comments in the attached images. I know a lot of these are on tiles that aren't yours, but it would be great if you would go ahead and take responsibility for the whole set and make necessary adjustments across all tiles.
There are also a few things that are going to be very tedious, especially the problem with bushes/foliage that are not currently casting shadows. If you've got the patience, I think you'll find adding lightclip will dramatically improve the overall feel of the map and it will help create the feeling that the foliage models are "rooted" in their environment.
In the meantime, I'm going to work on some of the textures. Some of the trees/foliage are very dark or otherwise don't look great, and I'll try and work out something better for them. This should just slot right in without any work on your end. With your permission, I'd also like to tone down the saturation on the floor texture. Currently I think it's just far too bright yellow/green, and I'd like to make it more earthy. Is that alright? Again, I'd slot it right in so it wouldn't take any more work on your end.
And Kildor is right, it would be great to get this into GIT soon. Then I and others can look at it and make adjustments easily. I could even help out with some of the tedious work. But if you don't have GIT, it means you would have to check before you do any work on the maps and download any new versions. You can do that through a web-based interface. Would that be alright? I'll wait a bit for any latest changes based on the attached images. But then I'll take whatever you send me and put it up.
And again, nice work so far. I know a lot of it is a bit of a grind but it's a great improvement to the RMA.
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more pictures
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thanks H-Hour
just for the moment, the little boxes you mentioned are binary code tile markers, to help identify the tile. Most of the tiles (except the river tiles) have them in the upper right hand corner. So if you could just tell me the marker (white 1, black 0) I can easily identify the problematic tile.
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just an information
I consider my part for +forest done
there are for sure some minor points still to do and of course if somebody points them out to me, I will try to fix them
I will leave the tile markers in for the moment (makes troubleshooting easier), but will remove them before we go for release of 2.4
hopefully it was an improvement
tilli
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tilli, I've got removing the tile markers from +forest on the 2.4 todo list (http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Talk:TODO/2.4#Things_to_remove.2Fdisable_.28once_we_branched.29) whenever you're ready.
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markers are removed
I also added another river crossing
unless some serious issues come up, I consider +forest done for the time being
Tilli
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Thanks tilli!
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tilli, thanks a lot for finishing a new map theme! But -- why didn't you use a transparent, flowing water material? Current one you are using looks more like plastic than water :(
PS: See the dam map for example of transparent water.