UFO:Alien Invasion
Development => Artwork => Topic started by: Voller on May 29, 2010, 10:35:00 am
-
Alright let me ask again in this forum so that the right people might read it:
Do we have any models for the Tri-laser module (http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/UGV_Equipment/Proposed/Tri-Laser_Module), grenade launcher (http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/UGV_Equipment/Proposed/Automatic_Grenade_Launcher) or Particle beams (http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/UGV_Equipment/Proposed/Particle_Cannon_Turret). If not, is anybody working on these already, or can I take a shot?
-
Alright let me ask again in this forum so that the right people might read it:
Do we have any models for the Tri-laser module (http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/UGV_Equipment/Proposed/Tri-Laser_Module), grenade launcher (http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/UGV_Equipment/Proposed/Automatic_Grenade_Launcher) or Particle beams (http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/UGV_Equipment/Proposed/Particle_Cannon_Turret). If not, is anybody working on these already, or can I take a shot?
We don't have models for those, most importantly because they are not approved articles or designs. For example, we do want a UGV laser gun model, but not some kind of multi-barreled sillyness. If you can make something sensible (inspired by the current heavy laser and aircraft laser) then we'd be happy to consider it.
Other things we would like for UGVs:
UGV grenade launcher -- yes.
UGV plasma cannon -- yes.
UGV particle beam -- no.
Regards,
Winter
-
UGV particle beam -- no.
Regards,
Winter
Aww, man. Sad face, Winter, Major sad face.
Then again, that probably to do with something sensible like kick back or the ammo or something, right?
And, no multi-barrelled silliness? Wouldn't it be easier to wire three heavy lasers together instead of having to build a whole new design?
At-least duel, maybe?
-
And, no multi-barrelled silliness? Wouldn't it be easier to wire three heavy lasers together instead of having to build a whole new design?
At-least duel, maybe?
Many times no. It's a laser, not a machine gun; given the physics of atmospheric blooming, one stronger beam is always far more powerful and longer-ranged than multiple lesser beams. You multiply the number of beams travelling through the air, you multiply the immense loss of power over distance caused by blooming. I could come up with other reasons why a multibarrel laser wouldn't make sense but the blooming problem pretty much shuts the idea down by itself.
Regards,
Winter
-
I have a whole bunch of turrets modeled for different ships and stuff. Mayhpas we can use some of them?
Here are some zipped images with some of the guns/turrets.
http://www.mediafire.com/?jmgmkwz5lmm
-
quite cool - i think most of the smaller ones might work for us - would be nice if you could release them for us as 3ds or md2
-
UVG weapons are turreted, right?
I could tweak all of those to fix (and look) more appropriate.
Give me a little and I'll whip something up.
-
you might want to have a look at the ugv models at http://ufoai.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/ufoai/ufoai/trunk/base/models/soldiers/
-
Here. I put a bunch of parts I found together in one 3D Max scene and uploaded it. I probably have more on some obscure parts of my HDD
http://www.mediafire.com/?mxmmojngmtg
-
I have a whole bunch of turrets modeled for different ships and stuff. Mayhpas we can use some of them?
Here are some zipped images with some of the guns/turrets.
http://www.mediafire.com/?jmgmkwz5lmm
Man, you really, really love your rotary guns, don't you? ;)
Like Mattn said, we might be able to use one or two of the smaller ones, but in that case they would need some adaptation to fit the UGV models.
Regards,
Winter
-
I know. I've put them up so other people can have parts they can use to modify and combine.
And now I found some UV mapped, optimized (lower polycount) versions of some models of the bigger guns. Unfortunataley, the maps they use are cobbled together from textures from 2-3 other games, so they can't be used (IIRC), but at least with the UV mapping in place, it makes it that much easier. I'll upload those too.
Also, when talking about UVG turrets - are the turrets themselves bulky? Tank-like? Thin?
I can whip up a dozen UVG turrets in a day - no problem - I just need to have an idea how the turret base itself (not the barrel) is supposed to look.
EDIT:
@Winter - I like all guns. I just tried several version of rotary guns, experimenting with barrel and polycount, since some older games I modded had big polycount limitations, and some didn't.
-
Say winter, for UGV weapons, do you want the laser turret to be something like the one the experimental 747? OR maybe like a heavy laser, but just one a turret.
Simplistic turrets (heavy gun, camera/sensors, rotation base) or a more covered one (armored, so you can't really see internals)?
-
I think armour would definitely be a concern for UGVs, since they're supposed to be like small tanks, but I can imagine there would be a few bits of rough-and-ready external equipment too. The turrets can be of any height or bulk, whatever seems appropriate. Just try and match it to the chassis, the same level of detail in model and texture.
Regards,
Winter
-
Simplistic turrets (camera/sensors)
I, for one, really think that important. Sometimes being able to see your enemy is more important than having an extra gun.
-
We got only 1 UGV model right now, right? Any images of it?
-
We got only 1 UGV model right now, right? Any images of it?
We have two armed UGVs, the Ares and the (flying) Phoenix. I don't know if any screenshots are still up but they should be in SVN somewhere.
Regards,
Winter
-
You can even ground those two in Skirmish current trunk version.
There are even some additional UGVs in trunk (see base/models/soldiers) like ugv_heli (missing anim, just .obj & texture) or ugv_robot.
Also it seems that there are several versions of the Ares, which just seem to lack definitions in team_humans.ufo.
Here some screens of the mentioned UGVs Ares & Phoenix:
-
There are even some additional UGVs in trunk (see base/models/soldiers) like ugv_heli (missing anim, just .obj & texture) or ugv_robot.
They're the 1x1 unarmed reconnaissance UGVs. We don't need guns for them.
Also it seems that there are several versions of the Ares, which just seem to lack definitions in team_humans.ufo.
We have a wheeled version, a tracked version and (I think) a hover version, but they all have the same turret mount.
Regards,
Winter
-
They're the 1x1 unarmed reconnaissance UGVs. We don't need guns for them.
The near future will bring in a big way roughly man-sized armed UGVs that can follow soldiers wherever they go, be it through cramped urban environments, or terrain impassible to larger machines.
TALON SWORDS, MAARS and 'BigDog' are strong examples of this direction.
Similar such UGVs could make a good compliment to and fill a role between the backpack recon and 'tankette' UGVs. I could model a couple 1x1 combat UGVs for UFOAI if you'd like. ;)
We have a wheeled version, a tracked version and (I think) a hover version, but they all have the same turret mount.
It looks like you only have a wheeled and hover version, the ares and phoenix, respectively. At least that's all that seems to be in your svn data sources directory, unless I missed it.
If the the phoenix was a UCAV, it would need to have its turret on the bottom, like a gunship, to engage targets on the ground, rather than on the top like a hovercraft.
-
The near future will bring in a big way roughly man-sized armed UGVs that can follow soldiers wherever they go, be it through cramped urban environments, or terrain impassible to larger machines.
TALON SWORDS, MAARS and 'BigDog' are strong examples of this direction.
Similar such UGVs could make a good compliment to and fill a role between the backpack recon and 'tankette' UGVs. I could model a couple 1x1 combat UGVs for UFOAI if you'd like. ;)
Honestly, that sort of thing might (emphasis might) be realistic for future combat, but I can't see it being appropriate for UFO:AI. It would detract from gameplay by either reducing the importance of human soldiers or cluttering up the battlescape with 8-10 of the little bastards. It won't get my vote.
It looks like you only have a wheeled and hover version, the ares and phoenix, respectively. At least that's all that seems to be in your svn data sources directory, unless I missed it.
I don't know what's in SVN, but I know for a fact that Sitters modelled wheeled, tracked and hover versions of the Ares specifically. If I'd meant the Phoenix I would've said so. :P
If the the phoenix was a UCAV, it would need to have its turret on the bottom, like a gunship, to engage targets on the ground, rather than on the top like a hovercraft.
Yes, that is how the Phoenix was planned.
Regards,
Winter
-
Honestly, that sort of thing might (emphasis might) be realistic for future combat, but I can't see it being appropriate for UFO:AI. It would detract from gameplay by either reducing the importance of human soldiers or cluttering up the battlescape with 8-10 of the little bastards. It won't get my vote.
Well the smaller size just means they could fit through doorways, not that you should be able to spam them. Like any UGV, there's only so many that you should be allowed to fit in the UGV pods on the dropship.
As for competing with soldiers, that seems like an issue already on the table, since the Ares and Phoenix (and later, more advanced versions) already compete with snipers and support infantry that fight in the open. Smaller armed UGVs would simply compete with (or complement, depending on balance) CQC focused soldiers. So it seems like the differences between human and machine combatants would have to lie elsewhere of a size difference.
This would just buy you the ability to have something more expendable to spearhead CQ raids on buildings and UFOs, plus something to do with your UGV pod space if your current mission is in a cramped, urban situation.
I don't know what's in SVN, but I know for a fact that Sitters modelled wheeled, tracked and hover versions of the Ares specifically. If I'd meant the Phoenix I would've said so. :P
Yes, that is how the Phoenix was planned.
Do you folks have a wishlist of all the UGV's you'd eventually like to have, plus any descriptions of them?
For example I heard at some point that you had plans for advanced UGVs, partially based on alien technology, for the mid to late game.
-
Well the smaller size just means they could fit through doorways, not that you should be able to spam them. Like any UGV, there's only so many that you should be allowed to fit in the UGV pods on the dropship.
As for competing with soldiers, that seems like an issue already on the table, since the Ares and Phoenix (and later, more advanced versions) already compete with snipers and support infantry that fight in the open.
Not so. You'll never be able to bring more than a handful of big UGVs to the battlefield due to dropship size restrictions.
Do you folks have a wishlist of all the UGV's you'd eventually like to have, plus any descriptions of them?
For example I heard at some point that you had plans for advanced UGVs, partially based on alien technology, for the mid to late game.
No wishlist at the moment. We have plans for one more UGV, based on alien tech as you said, but that's pretty much it. I can't imagine we'd want more UGVs than that.
Regards,
Winter
-
Not so. You'll never be able to bring more than a handful of big UGVs to the battlefield due to dropship size restrictions.
But the same restriction would apply to smaller UGVs, if for no other reason than because they aren't that much smaller really. Just enough to get through a doorway. If the firebird dropship will be able to carry 2 ares and/or phoenix max, then it'd be able to carry 4 or even just 2 of these max. The choice for the player here isn't meant to be between more powerful and more numerous, but between more powerful and more mobile.
The way things are currently balanced, that's where you need it anyway. Lasers, the missile launcher, health packs (rebalanced or no) and even bolter and sniper rifles give phalanx the edge on open maps and standoff fighting, versus what the aliens have. The aliens are stronger in close quarters, so that's where you'd often prefer having the help.
And then you have maps where 2x2 combatants won't be that useful, but you can't put soldiers in your UGV pods, so you're otherwise forced to use space slots on things you won't really be using on those missions.
No wishlist at the moment. We have plans for one more UGV, based on alien tech as you said, but that's pretty much it. I can't imagine we'd want more UGVs than that.
So will you be using all 3 versions of the Ares then? And do you have any design details on the Phoenix and this alien tech model?
-
Someone correct me here, but heh description of the UVG chaingun specificly mentions it's NOT multi-barreled.
???
I'll make several different UVG weapons, just to be sure. A granade laucnher, regular gun, laser gun, and whatever else I can think of.
-
Someone correct me here, but heh description of the UVG chaingun specificly mentions it's NOT multi-barreled.
???
I'll make several different UVG weapons, just to be sure. A granade laucnher, regular gun, laser gun, and whatever else I can think of.
I've just checked my files, and it does no such thing, especially since it was written for the multi-barreled autocannon Sitters made with the Ares.
Regards,
Winter
-
@Trash Man: I've actually already started doing some work on the laser weapon myself. Still work in progress and going slowly because the weather is awesome at the moment. But if you could concentrate on the other weapons first, then we're not doing any double work.
-
The Autocannon Module is our first-level UGV weapon. Simple, effective, and designed to minimise the collateral damage usually associated with multi-barreled guns, it fires standard 12mm MMG (Medium Machine Gun) rounds from an internal feed that links up to the UGV's own magazine cavity. It is capable of holding up to 6000 bullets. These rounds come in AP (Armour-Piercing) and FP (Frangible Penetrator) mods to satisfy the needs of particular missions.
At its full rate of fire the autocannon module can empty its magazine in twenty seconds.
These two lines caught my attention. For multiple reasons.
1. muti-barreled machine guns are actually MORE accurate than single barreled ones. I admit, I mis-read it initially.
2. 6000 bullets in 20 seconds implies a rate of fire of 18000 bullets per minutes. That is simply way too excessive. While gattling guns are capable of great speeds (the highest known RoF is 12000), it's just too wasteful, so the usual rate of fire is 3000-4000 rpm's. More is simply not needed, especially in support role.
-
These two lines caught my attention. For multiple reasons.
1. muti-barreled machine guns are actually MORE accurate than single barreled ones. I admit, I mis-read it initially.
Source? I can't imagine a computer-operated rotary gun on the same mount to be more accurate than a single-barrel one, since you have either recoil and torque working against accuracy or just recoil. And you'll have to show me figures that aren't set by human gunners.
2. 6000 bullets in 20 seconds implies a rate of fire of 18000 bullets per minutes. That is simply way too excessive. While gattling guns are capable of great speeds (the highest known RoF is 12000), it's just too wasteful, so the usual rate of fire is 3000-4000 rpm's. More is simply not needed, especially in support role.
Which is why it's rarely run at the full rate of fire, as mentioned in the article.
Regards,
Winter
-
Source? I can't imagine a computer-operated rotary gun on the same mount to be more accurate than a single-barrel one, since you have either recoil and torque working against accuracy or just recoil. And you'll have to show me figures that aren't set by human gunners.
When you go above 2000 rpms, with rotating barrels, you get increased stability and accuracy. There's even a test video on you tube comparing the m240 to the m134. The m134 turns out to be roughly 9 times more accurate!
Strange, but true....
Aha..found it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiry7ysVA9Y&feature=related
Which is why it's rarely run at the full rate of fire, as mentioned in the article.
What I mean to say is that they aren't even produced to go higher than needed. They are "capped" at 3000-4000 (with 6000 for a few) even if they actually rarely fired at full speed.
-
When you go above 2000 rpms, with rotating barrels, you get increased stability and accuracy. There's even a test video on you tube comparing the m240 to the m134. The m134 turns out to be roughly 9 times more accurate!
Strange, but true....
Aha..found it:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiry7ysVA9Y&feature=related
What I mean to say is that they aren't even produced to go higher than needed. They are "capped" at 3000-4000 (with 6000 for a few) even if they actually rarely fired at full speed.
Hrm. I can't watch the video, since the connection I'm on now can barely handle streaming radio. However, even if it is correct -- still not convinced at the moment -- we have to consider that changing a source article requires translation in every other language. I really don't think this is remotely significant enough to warrant that procedure just for some background figures.
Regards,
Winter
-
Bayo asked for some actual screenshot of the UGVs, so here they come...
-
Just a note, the Phoenix is actually upside-down in those shots. Since it hovers/flies, the turret needs to be on the bottom.
Regards,
Winter
-
When in the game you unlock ugvs anyways?
-
When in the game you unlock ugvs anyways?
When they will work. Still much to do for it...
-geever
-
When they will work. Still much to do for it...
-geever
And i thought that playing enough might unlock it... Too optimistic.
-
will there be a chance to recover and repair an inoperable UGV? Understandable if not
-
will there be a chance to recover and repair an inoperable UGV? Understandable if not
That one's still up for discussion in the design team.
Regards,
Winter
-
Sorry for the wait on the UVG turrets.
A hectic week and I've been checking out come competetive titles (UFO:ET currently).
-
I thought about 1x1 UGVs pros and cons and ended up with an idea (yes, I know you have plenty of them, but still :) ). What is the main difference between soldier and 1x1 UGV? Firepower and toughness. So, we take a soldier, give him heavy armor with exoskeleton (IIRC we have proposals for those), and give him more powerful weapon. And here comes an idea: make this weapon with backpack - like in "ghostbusters": some kind of accelerator with power supply on the back (weight doesn't matter as we have exoskeleton), and some kind of ejector in hands. Like this it can be done more powerful without "realism" issues. Will do for "heavy particle weapon" or "heavy plasma" or whatever.
The resulting unit won't differ from 1x1 UGV in any way, and still be a soldier.
-
We got only 1 UGV model right now, right? Any images of it?
good question, how our UGV looks anyway?
-
good question, how our UGV looks anyway?
We have two. :P
Ares (http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/File:Ufoai_2.4-dev_ufo111.jpg)
Phoenix (http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/File:Ufoai_2.4-dev_ufo109.jpg). however it is upside-down on this image.
-geever
-
i cant appreciate the phoenix from this in its face angel or maybe because its upside down but ares looks nice, reminds me darpa model i read about.
btw why so many front lights, its a ugv as in unmanned ;)
-
It may still use the visible light spectrum for its cameras, in which case headlights are its equivalent of a flashlight.
-
yes you need many types of sensors and positioning systems but i assume this is that little thing on top with 360 overview.
but maybe you planing to blind the mother ****** and drive him over 8)
-
Other things we would like for UGVs:
UGV grenade launcher -- yes.
UGV plasma cannon -- yes.
UGV particle beam -- no.
So... why no Particle Beam? The write-up uses the exact same Particle Beam that your soldiers can use, so it's not like PHALANX has to know how to build Particle Beam technology or something, nor is it unbalancing because it doesn't deal any more damage.
-
Since you have rejected the Tri-Laser, I would like to make a new write-up for a "Laser Module". Could you please give me permission to create articles? Then I would also be able to replace the write-up for the Ablative Armour, which was lost.
-
Ares seems to be made out of cast iron... I would like to see it a bit boxyer... also there ate too many lights on it... it looks like a civilian car! ;D