UFO:Alien Invasion
Development => Sounds and Music => Topic started by: Gren on April 01, 2010, 01:18:03 pm
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I felt I wanted to contribute a little more than just Bug-Hunting, so I made a track for you to listen to - If it's suitable, then by all means add it to the library.. :)
http://wiki.creativecommons.org/File:Return_Journey.ogg
Please let me know what you think.. ::) ;D
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Pretty nice IMO. The drum seems a bit too loud though.
One (small) request though. Could you change the "main instrument" which starts playing at 1:00 in your track to play a tune more like what is played in this (http://ufoai.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/ufoai/ufoai/trunk/base/music/van_geoscape.ogg?view=log) and this (http://ufoai.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/ufoai/ufoai/trunk/base/music/van_theme.ogg?view=log) at 2:38 and 0:40, respectively. I don't know if you think it fits and I'm not sure would this cause a license hassle but yours sounds nearly like that already and I've started to consider that particular tune kinda like the signature of UFO:AI (I think routinely listening to these tracks causes that) so I decided to ask away. If you think it doesn't fit or it can't be put there, feel free to dismiss this request. It fits UFO:AIs atmosphere nonetheless [/IMO].
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Thanks for the comments Hertzila :)
OK - I'll look at the volume on the drum tracks and listen to the examples to see what I can do with the lead instrument.
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Not bad. I think it has a lot of potential, with a little polishing and minor tweaks.
The main lead instrument, as it is, does seem just a tiny bit too loud in comparison to the other instruments IMO, although I wouldn't quite call it "blaring." The melody and main idea seems to work quite well though.
Also, keep in mind that if it is going to be used for the game it needs to be designed to loop, from the end all the way back to the beginning.
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Not bad. I think it has a lot of potential, with a little polishing and minor tweaks.
The main lead instrument, as it is, does seem just a tiny bit too loud in comparison to the other instruments IMO, although I wouldn't quite call it "blaring." The melody and main idea seems to work quite well though.
Also, keep in mind that if it is going to be used for the game it needs to be designed to loop, from the end all the way back to the beginning.
Thanks Destructavator - any pointers are very welcome.. I have loads of bits of ideas that I should really try to expand upon more and it's nice to get a little fb. :)
I looked at the volume settings on the drum track and the solo voice and did a remix..
http://wiki.creativecommons.org/File:Return_Journey_r01.ogg
What other tweaks and polishing do you think I should be looking at?
Thank you very much for your input btw. ;D
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;D 8) ;)
Great man, I really like that one !!!
Time to hear some additional new tracks when playing UFO:AI ;D
There is one thing though, IMHO every musician contributing music for UFO:AI should keep in mind & that is:
Playing one level in UFO:AI often takes 20 minutes or even more, so this track for example will be looped 7 times during play... Although I like the track very much I would not like this repetition.
Gren, it would be great if you could try to make this longer & extend it with long ambient sequences, like the one @ the beginning of this track...
& I would like to hear more from you in-game, you seem to be a real talented musician, so keep the tracks flowin' & the uploads rollin' ;)
8) GREAT JOB GREN !!! 8)
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WOW! thanks MCR!! :-[ :)
I guess I never thought about the duration of a level in-game, but now I know, there shouldn't be any reason why I can't write a 20 minute track :D I have quite a few ideas that need stringing in together, which can be tied together by spells of ambience (not quite as far as cattle/sheep noises tho - hmmm...)
But thank you so much for the kind comments.. (and the little incentive) [makes note to start on 20 minute sonata immediately]
When I wrote Return Journey, I wasn't aware of just how close the melody was, to your existing van_theme, as Hertzila accurately pointed out, so, just for Hertzila, I added a piano melody track, just as a realisation of the similarity - it has to be the influence that the UFO:AI project has had on me. ;D ;D :D
http://wiki.creativecommons.org/File:Return_Journey_r02.ogg
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Perfect man, I am very happy to read that you are motivated (as I am also) !!! ;)
Do not misunderstand me, you do not have to write a opera for just one level, better make more tunes, but I think it should be no problem to combine a track with long ambient & creepy phases, like many of the great tracks in trunk already do, to avoid repetition a little bit & also calm down atmosphere again after the 'climax' of the track is reached, you know what I mean ;)
Maybe there should some upgrades made to the musicsystem as a whole, many ideas have already been voiced regarding this in this forum, IMHO we should start a fresh discussion regarding this, but this has not a very high priority @ the moment...
Okay, now I am going to listen to the latest version... ;)
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My comment:
:D
Really nice, especially the melody, please add a little more variation to the drums, they loop almost through the whole track with only one break & almost no variation, maybe you should do some experiments with the hi-hats here...
The melody & ambient sounds in the background are 100% perfect IMHO (just a bit too short ;))
If it helps to motivate: I already wrote a patch tracker item concerning this also ;)
Sebastian Ahlen's 'Deep Blue Sea' from trunk is a perfect example for nice drums & breaks IMHO...
The Psymong tracks from trunk are perfect examples for creating atmosphere with sound, these are great IMHO...
Also check out the stuff from Manuel 'Vanethian' Marino in trunk...
Just for your inspiration...
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Mattn also added this one already, although I feel we will get a even nicer version of that tomorrow ;)
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That latest one is very nice, and I love that piano. But as MCR pointed out, it's a bit monotonous. You could add a little variation. Both in the drums and in the melody. Like at that short break 1:48-2:12 put that piano again, with maybe a little more notes or such. And after that break you could put a little variation into the lead instrument (what is it called?)
Very good work nonetheless!
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Mattn also added this one already, although I feel we will get a even nicer version of that tomorrow ;)
Yep - I think you will ;D ;D ;D
I'll have a good look at your suggestions - especially the Drum tracks. They are not processed by a drum machine - I had to do them by hand and I wasn't 100% happy with the result after all that. >:( If I spend a little extra time on them, they will be much better.
Thank you again for the input MCR!! ;D ;D
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That latest one is very nice, and I love that piano. But as MCR pointed out, it's a bit monotonous. You could add a little variation. Both in the drums and in the melody. Like at that short break 1:48-2:12 put that piano again, with maybe a little more notes or such. And after that break you could put a little variation into the lead instrument (what is it called?)
Very good work nonetheless!
Thank you :) :D
I'm about to re-visit the format to produce a longer, better version (as you have probably seen posted already) I'm pleased you like the Grand Piano track. It was just a raw Old Grand voice sample, without any effects or processing, and I thought it sounded pretty good.. seeing as I just added it for you, do you think I should keep the piano track in there for the revised version?
The solo instrument is just a Sustain guitar, through the chorus processor, with a little reverb and I applied some pitch-bending as I played... It came out kinda nice ;D
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I think you should definitely keep the piano in there, maybe also adding effects to it too. It could very well turn out to be great.
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If I spend a little extra time on them, they will be much better.
I am sure about that already ;)
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applied this to trunk - thanks
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applied this to trunk - thanks
No - my thanks to you :D
Bit of a delay on the revised version - (Good Friday etc...) but about half-way through the re-hash, so slow progress.. but I'm pleased with it so far. ;D ;) Should be up in a day or so, but from a different download location - too big for CC-Wiki.
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Return Journey r03.
Not quite 20 minutes though MCR ;)
Extended to 3 times original length, so it runs for around 9 minutes. Added some unexciting ambient sections and incorporated another idea/impression somewhere in the middle. Fade-in Acc Guitar with other instruments and a heavy lead synth joining in.
@Hertzila
I changed the Old Grand piano voice for a standard Grand and routed it through a reverb unit with a medium room setting - came out not too bad and makes the voice a little more interesting. (I know you liked the piano bit!) :D
File is a little over 10 MB (9.91 zipped) http://www.filefactory.com/f/9c20a8e270c4224a/
I was really wondering, rather than trying to create really long tracks, which end up being quite large files, wouldn't it be better/operationally economical to have smaller tracks with track changes during a mission? This whole track mixed down to a 150 MB .wav. The ogg conversion took it down to around 10. But even so, there must be some kind of effect when loading?
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Hey Gren !
I love the ambient part, this is EXACTLY what this game needs regarding the background music during missions.
It is an opera now ;) ;D :D !
BTW, I found that this is quite nice for uploading stuff:
http://www.hyperupload.com/
Maybe you want to check this one out 4 your next upload.
I was really wondering, rather than trying to create really long tracks, which end up being quite large files, wouldn't it be better/operationally economical to have smaller tracks with track changes during a mission?
That's what I meant in my previous post, when I wrote about sound system changes ;)
But having smaller tracks with track changes is not exactly what I was thinking about ;)
It would be a step, but then it could happen that very different styles would be played during 1 mission, so ::)
If you want a track change in the current version of the game you just have to press ESC twice on battlescape, that will fade one track out & another one in ;). I use this 'unknown feature' very often when I play ;)
I thought it would be a nice idea to have something like a dynamic soundtrack, which changes depending on the situation on the battlefield, but that would require quite some work from the coding side, but also from the artists' side, because they would have to revisit their tracks & make shorter different loops of the same tracks suited for not yet defined 'situations' on the battlescape ;)
So this whole stuff would require lot of work, but the effects would be quite nice IMHO...
GREAT TRACK, GREN !!!
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Great work Gren! Very nice track! The original parts are perfect (the new piano sounds great!) and the stuff in-between is good.
Now the more negative comments: Sorry to bug you with this yet again but the 1:58-6:48 could use a bit more variation (you can freely say if I like variation too much). As I said it's good but after a couple of minutes it gets a bit repetitive. You could add a new instrument there or some variation of the existing ones at some point. This isn't a major problem (if even a minor one) at any rate though.
The part that begins at 4:40 sounds somewhat... disconnected. Like it doesn't belong in this track. It doesn't ruin the track but neither does it sound good IMO.
But still:
GREAT TRACK, GREN!
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commited the updated version to trunk - thanks for the work
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Hey Gren !
I love the ambient part, this is EXACTLY what this game needs regarding the background music during missions.
It is an opera now ;) ;D :D !
Oh thanks MCR! - but it's no opera. (I can't really sing :D :D )
BTW, I found that this is quite nice for uploading stuff:
http://www.hyperupload.com/
Maybe you want to check this one out 4 your next upload.
I've bookmarked this & will check it out later - ty!
I thought it would be a nice idea to have something like a dynamic soundtrack, which changes depending on the situation on the battlefield, but that would require quite some work from the coding side, but also from the artists' side, because they would have to revisit their tracks & make shorter different loops of the same tracks suited for not yet defined 'situations' on the battlescape ;)
So this whole stuff would require lot of work, but the effects would be quite nice IMHO..
Well just like Map Designers and Graphics artists, we musicians like a little guidance too, so ideas of format come in very handy when approaching a writing task. :-\
Thank you for the input - it's really great!! :)
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Great work Gren! Very nice track! The original parts are perfect (the new piano sounds great!) and the stuff in-between is good.
Thanks Hertzila :D
Now the more negative comments: Sorry to bug you with this yet again but the 1:58-6:48 could use a bit more variation.
I really do agree that this section is lacking instrumental variation, but it's just an attempt at putting together a period of background interval, that plays when the mission is in full swing - not good to just sit & listen to.... :(
The part that begins at 4:40 sounds somewhat... disconnected. Like it doesn't belong in this track. It doesn't ruin the track but neither does it sound good IMO.
Sorry you think it sounds out of place.. probably I could have integrated it a little better.
But still:
GREAT TRACK, GREN!
Thank you! - I do appreciate your input ;D
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commited the updated version to trunk - thanks for the work
Thanks Mattn - no worries.. ;)
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Gren, just a short question:
Is this the final version in your opinion or would you revisit the track one last time for some final adjustments if you get some constructive criticism ?
:-[
If you like I will :-X also ;) ;D
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Hey MCR - I'll revisit the track as many times as is needed if you point me in the right direction for any suggested improvements.. I don't mind at all. :D It looks like the deviation with the Acoustic guitar section didn't work too well. (although I like it) ::)
I'm working on a new track atm (experimenting with choir pads and stuff) to try and stop myself whistling bits from Return Journey - it kinda hooks into you after a while.. :D
Some of the Midi work I did with Cakewalk PA9 (now Sonar - my version is a little outdated, but I found Reason much cheaper and with a much wider scope for sampling and patching)
Normally I leave my tracks EQ Free, but I patched in a 2 band EQ for one of the synths and played with that for a while - nice :) There are also some nice voices on my old Korg O5/RW module, but I need to revisit the tuts to re-sample them - all good fun I guess.
Please feel free to throw suggestions/crits at the tracks - I will take it the right way hehehe! ???
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Hey Gren !
I would think that you have to revisit this track just 1 last time to finalize & polish it ;).
What IMHO should be changed is this:
1. You did not touch the drums :'(, the ever-repeating 'DUM DAM DA DA DA', which starts 0:11 is just not good enough for this great melody & pushes itself to the foreground too much. Instead of editing the drumz, I would simply mute the whole drum-channel & build a new, more complex one with more variation (build a complex multi-volume hi-hat theme there, which underlines the melody without nerving ;)) [The good thing about electronic drumz is that you can play them so precise, complex & subtle like no real drummer could do.]
2. I really like the way you slide into the break, especially this ultra-short silence @ 1:57. I agree with Hertzila that the ambient part could need some rework, but I think here is very little work needed. If you have some nice filters, here is the part to use them to break monotony & enhance creepiness (1:58-4:18).
3. I like the part from 4:30-6:07. Again you slide into that part very nicely with nothing more audible than the wind. It somehow reminds me of being pulled into the middle-ages, but the wind still keeping you in 2084 ;)
4. 6:08 brings you finally back into the future again, the part until you get back to the melody again (6:48) needs no rework IMO
5. 6:48-9:03 - The Final Part - I think you now what bugs me here ;)
Thanx 4 your work, man !
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I agree the drum track was initially a basic beat-keeper, but I did add a few rolls and variations, but obviously not enough to notice. I didn't really want to use sequenced loops - but maybe I had better explore the idea. :o
Your preferences are different to Hertzilas in that you seem to like the section that begins with the wind (the acoustic guitar fade-in) and Hertzila seems to think it sounds out of place and not associated. I'll look again at this section.
The only other point you raise is re the ambient section and filtering - do you mean pan effects/modulation/after-touch or are you suggesting adding more instruments/synths? If so, I would need to daisy-chain another 14:2 mixer. ;) If I do that, I may just make that re-visit to look at sampling the patches on my O5/RW, which means it will be a while before I upload another version.
Thank you for the input MCR - much, much appreciated... :D ;D ;D
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To elaborate my opinion on the 4:30-6:07, it suffers from a bad mood whiplash (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MoodWhiplash) in my opinion. At first it's (the whole track, not the 4:30-6:07) futuristic sounding with a slight bit of piano, then a bit strange sounding switch (only a bit strange, it's mainly the one part at 1:51 where you switch between the two notes very fast, still not bad sounding), then a still futuristic ambient and then suddenly we completely switch into a medieval castle hall. It's just too big of a change and doesn't fit IMO. I'd recommend you somehow keeping the futuristic feel in there too.
It seems me and MCR are having a disagreement on this part.
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Your preferences are different to Hertzilas in that you seem to like the section that begins with the wind (the acoustic guitar fade-in) and Hertzila seems to think it sounds out of place and not associated. I'll look again at this section.
I agree with Hertila that it sounds a little disconnected or 'out of place', but I like that very much - this brings true variation & twist to this whole thing, it brings me somehow into the middle-ages, I cannot tell you more... ;)
The only other point you raise is re the ambient section and filtering - do you mean pan effects/modulation/after-touch or are you suggesting adding more instruments/synths? If so, I would need to daisy-chain another 14:2 mixer. ;) If I do that, I may just make that re-visit to look at sampling the patches on my O5/RW, which means it will be a while before I upload another version.
I mean just FX, something like some nice VST-plugins added to make the looped ambient stuff variate a little bit more & also to guide the listener through this ambient phase & enhance creepiness there. Pan-FX can be nice too & can add to atmosphere a lot, when ambient sounds change their 'location', but I do not think it is really necessary to add instruments, I would rather wish to hear those new instruments in your next track ;)
@Hertzila:
I do not disagree so much with you, I also see the 'medieval castle hall' somehow :D, but I like it - that is the only difference, it is somehow integrated, brings a fresh melody & the wind in the background somehow holds all of this together...
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This is really cool stuff!! - thank you both. ;D
I was unsure of the little guitar riff at 1:51, but I have also thought about changing the Acoustic Guitar voice for another (more futuristic) instrument. The riff can be removed and I can drop into the next section a bit smoother.
Whilst looking at drum loops I also discovered some old soundfont files I had stored on here since before 2000 :o - (probably restored from one of my back-ups) and I've been looking at importing some of the options with those - some nice voice samples there. :D
Not much progress on the drum track yet... but I'm thinking of attempting to enhance those ambient sections more AND retain the futuristic feel in the middle, instead of the medievil theme.. I think it's mainly the Acoustic run-in that may be the cause - I have a heavy lead synth voice running in that section, which I'm thinking of substituting with a nice Melotron voice re-discovered today.. :)
See how we go - ;D ;D
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How's this coming up?
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How's this coming up?
Sorry Hertzila - I missed your question.. :o :-[
Work is still in progress. (kinda immersed in experimenting with loads of different instruments)
I've removed the Acoustic centre section and changed the questionable guitar riff slightly - atm putting together a new centre (56 bars or so) - but it's a slow melodic/ambient-type section. I incorporated a tempo change to bring the pace right down - dropped from 120bpm to 80. The run-in to the new centre is a kind of galaxial/spacial atmosphere, with a short-paced base progression. - sounds ok so far and coming on well. (my opinion)
:D ;)
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All right. I'll be waiting for that next version. You can take your time, just make it good ;).
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Where is Gren ?
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Where is Gren ?
Hey! - I'm still around. :D
Changed quite a few things with the final version (changed and changed again the middle section) and experimenting with mastering suite, but still not quite ready. Also, a couple of other pieces (ideas running alongside) I'm still working on.
I'm sure you will like the improvements when finished. ;) ;D
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Cool ;)
8) 8) 8)
Great to hear from you !
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Give us @ least another track ;)
Please... !