UFO:Alien Invasion
Technical support => Feature Requests => Topic started by: zapkitty on March 05, 2010, 04:25:41 pm
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In order to keep more of the games variety of human-style weapons as valid playing options later in the game would it be possible to have certain research projects automatically upgrade similar technologies that are used in existing weapons?
An example: the side effects of coilgun power supply research and alien materials studies results in an enhanced magazine being available for bolter rifles that increases selected bolter stats with little or no extra research needed.
And speaking of bolters I noticed that ammunition capacity is a function of the weapon itself, and not of the magazine. It seems contradictory and in the case of the bolter does not allow the increase in ammo capacity that would naturally come with more efficient power supplies in the magazine.
It does seem odd and it gets in the way of implementing the banana clips for the full-auto coilguns ;D
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Yes, something like:
"Good morning Sir, there is (again for the 4035th time) bad news. The new armour (=medium one) you brought in is almost inpenetrable to our normal infantry weapons and lasers. We must analyse it to find out what we can do about that. As long as we don't have a solution, engage with extreme caution...." something like that, resulting in:
"We found out a way of upgrading our standard weaponry with alien technology, so that it can penetrate the newly discovered armour. [+ add reason that fits the tech-tree]"
Goal: Keep all the weapons as acceptable options in the game instead of allowing them to become useless. Let the player make the choice of what to field against the aliens.
Andy
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Yep - I agree here. There's some brilliant weapons that become almost useless and sadly fall by the way as the game progresses. I think it would be a great asset to try and keep as many as possible updated/upgraded so that they can be chosen as an alternative for diversity, rather than the selection of weapons over each other for their power factor. ;)
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Goal: Keep all the weapons as acceptable options in the game instead of allowing them to become useless. Let the player make the choice of what to field against the aliens.
That's a little broad, I think... It's unlikely that the 9mm pistol or even the assault rifle would be upgraded to tackle medium armor :)
But keeping a broader viable inventory would be fun.
And if the devs feel that the alien weapons array needs more variety that's always an option... I've got a couple weird ideas :)
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Or a hybrid technology perhaps? Plasma tech might have a lot of side uses, from propulsion to plasma "flamethrowers".
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Why shouldn't, for example, a re-engineered assault rifle with an alien material barrel, a newly researched charge and bullets made of ultra-dense alien material be good enough to stay in use and do damage? In a fantastic world like UFO AI, I see no real reason why not even the (re-engineered = tuned) smallest pistol should be able to do a reasonable amount of damage in late-game.
Andy
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Why shouldn't, for example, a re-engineered assault rifle with an alien material barrel, a newly researched charge and bullets made of ultra-dense alien material be good enough to stay in use and do damage? In a fantastic world like UFO AI, I see no real reason why not even the (re-engineered = tuned) smallest pistol should be able to do a reasonable amount of damage in late-game.
Andy
Alien propellant (plasma?) instead of gunpowder, bullets made out of alien materials and all the parts of AR(/any other gun) reinforced with nanotubes to whitstand it all. And if possible make the penetrator from the same stuff Kerrblade uses and you have an anti-materiel assault rifle.
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Upgraded rounds and weapon research options does sound interesting.
What about plasma rockets for the rocket launcher? they did it for the grenade launcher after all, so why not jam a plasma grenade into a rocket, eh?
and maybe, by using the monomolecular blade research, they look into monomolecular point armour piercing rounds? and, based off that and plasma research, they could even develop a type of plasma based delayed-explosive armour-piercing rounds? (or 'plasma DEAP rounds' for short)?
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and maybe, by using the monomolecular blade research, they look into monomolecular point armour piercing rounds? and, based off that and plasma research, they could even develop a type of plasma based delayed-explosive armour-piercing rounds? (or 'plasma DEAP rounds' for short)?
It has the problem that the kerrmaterial requires curved form to keep it from breaking but like I said if succesfully fitted inside an AP round as penetrator (or whatever the part designed to penetrate armor is called) it would be the mother of all AP rounds. Couple that with alien propellant (plasma experts please tell me, is plasma possible for that?) and the whole bullet made out of some heavy and sturdy (alien) material and you have a VERY lethal weapon.
Plasma explosive rounds would be out of bounds unfortunately. Most of the bullets PHALANX uses are simply too small for explosives. SHIVA could use both new plasma explosives and kerr-AP rounds though.
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Making the 9mm pistol and assault rifle more powerful makes little sense to me. If you want such weapons then use desert eagles and battle rifles. Small arms are small because that's what the soldiers can handle not because we lack the technology to make more powerful guns.
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Small arms are small because that's what the soldiers can handle...
Exactly why Desret Eagles 0.5 AE aren't, despite many action movies you probably have seen, used by any sensible military force. What you need from handgun is to be able to quickly draw it and fire with one hand, something impossible with DE. Btw, the pistol used is UFA AI isn't 9mm. Read ufopaedia a bit.
And what are those "battle rifles" of yours supposed to be? High caliber ARs? I'm sorry that's impossible unless you want to treat your soldiers with dislodged shoulder after they try to fire burst from it.
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And what are those "battle rifles" of yours supposed to be? High caliber ARs? I'm sorry that's impossible unless you want to treat your soldiers with dislodged shoulder after they try to fire burst from it.
Well. they did try to adapt the classic battle rifle's 30.06 rounds to an assault rifle format when AR's were first being introduced and those didn't dislocate shoulders... but neither could the troops hit anything when firing bursts... :)
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That was 30.06 rounds. Those don't kick that much..muzzle energy of .50 BMG round is five times higher. Also, higher caliber also means longer barrel, while ARs have to be short and flexible enough for medium to close range engagements.
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SHIVA could use both new plasma explosives and kerr-AP rounds though.
I second that.
I normally swap out my Shiva's for rocket pods and targeting computers as soon as possible. more ammo like this for it would defiantly bring back my interest in it.
higher caliber also means longer barrel, while ARs have to be short and flexible enough for medium to close range engagements.
I second that also.
A weapon has to fit the role it was designed for. not to mention that rigging a AR to fire higher cal rounds would make a whole new weapon, not a upgraded AR, as you wouldn't then be able to use normal rounds. In my view, an upgraded weapon has to be better in some aspect to its predecessor and the same on all other aspects. but then again, whether or not round size counts as a aspect is, and if larger is better, is debatable.
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Really, applications of the kerrblade and plasma tech is extreme. New shotgun shells, for example, new kinds of ammo.
But not just these. Lasers, for example, could also be adapted as projectile propulsion, especially in combination with another, like plasma or EM propulsion. Plasma can be used for engines, too, if EM focusing like the one in PB weapons is used. Perhaps later in game, this could become a new type of propulsion, striking middle ground between speed of AM engines and fuel availability of jet engines.
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Lasers, for example, could also be adapted as projectile propulsion, especially in combination with another, like plasma or EM propulsion. Plasma can be used for engines, too, if EM focusing like the one in PB weapons is used. Perhaps later in game, this could become a new type of propulsion, striking middle ground between speed of AM engines and fuel availability of jet engines.
wait, what? lasers as propulsion? wouldn't they just burn though the round?
on the other hand, EM and plasma might work well together.
oh, and the plasma engines idea sound good.
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Not exactly. Some time ago, I've read about experiments with this kind of propulsion, just used in larger scale to Earth-orbit transport. Basically, laser is used to heat up the air (via some infra-absorbing material) in the cavity in the back of the projectile, creating a kind of "rocket engine". This has several advantages. Less recoil, as the projectile continues to accelerate when out of barell, more stable flight trajectory...it probably won't be an automatic weapon, but a heavy sniper weapon or a new kind of rocket launcher.
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ah. ;D i thought you meant something like that.
yeah, i like the idea. a bigger sniper rifle that isn't the bolt gun would be nice.
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a bigger sniper rifle that isn't the bolt gun would be nice.
What about the Coilgun?
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coil-gun? *facepalm* ah, freck... I knew there were still some weapons I hadn't tried yet!
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When I think of it...could be like this:
Name: Laser Artillery
Long range support weapon. Built upon upscaled heavy laser, this weapon can deliver specially developed HEAP or HEI 30 mm shells over long distance with high accuracy, serving as field artillery as well as another kind of "sniper". Not much improvement over HPML in damage, but laser propulsion allows semi-automatic operation, and holographic targeting increases accuracy. Its greatest disadvatage is that, after certain distance is travelled, laser loses contact with projectile, resulting in high gravity drop after certain point, limiting maximum range.
Since standard DF cartridges won't be sufficent to power this laser, each ammo pack contains a larger DF pack.
Stats:
Damage type-explosive
damage: 135 HEAP, 110 HEI
accuracy: 0.7 aimed shot, 1 for 3-round burst.
Range: 120
Clip size: 3
TU cost: Aimed shot 19, burst 28.
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coil-gun? *facepalm* ah, freck... I knew there were still some weapons I hadn't tried yet!
It's not in 2.2.1, but in 2.3, the coilgun is a researchable sniper weapon, based off the electromagnetic rifle (AKA Bolter), and alien Needler weapons. It's ammo capacity blows immense chunks (only 2 shots per clip, and the clips are 2x2 objects), but it does a ridiculous amount of damage over stupefyingly long range, without the inaccuracy issues of the bolter.
Like the UFOpaedia entry says, "we basically scaled down a tank's main gun."
Name: Laser Artillery
Long range support weapon. Built upon upscaled heavy laser, this weapon can deliver specially developed HEAP or HEI 30 mm shells over long distance with high accuracy, serving as field artillery as well as another kind of "sniper". Not much improvement over HPML in damage, but laser propulsion allows semi-automatic operation, and holographic targeting increases accuracy. Its greatest disadvatage is that, after certain distance is travelled, laser loses contact with projectile, resulting in high gravity drop after certain point, limiting maximum range.
Since standard DF cartridges won't be sufficent to power this laser, each ammo pack contains a larger DF pack.
Stats:
Damage type-explosive
damage: 135 HEAP, 110 HEI
accuracy: 0.7 aimed shot, 1 for 3-round burst.
Range: 120
Clip size: 3
TU cost: Aimed shot 19, burst 28.
I'm kinda leery of this weapon, mainly because of the TU cost. If I'm reading you right, it does a total of 245 damage, for 19 TU. The only weapon that compares with that kind of damage on a single shot is the Unrestricted Blast mode of the Particle Beam Cannon, which does 210 damage, has a blast radius, drains the entire 8-shot clip, and costs 28 TU.
Even the Coilgun's Aimed Shot only does 180 damage for 18 TU, which is the closest direct comparison, and even then, it's not the primary fire mode of the weapon (the primary fire mode is Snap Shot; 12 TU, same damage, but 1.5 accuracy). Further, the Coilgun's lowest accuracy is only 0.9, and does the same 180 damage as its snap shot. I'm thinking your weapon idea might be a bit overkill; too TU-intensive to use effectively, too much damage to keep it from being gamebreaking if you can overcome the TU-cost. And this is a laser-based weapon. From a research standpoint, having a weapon that strong available early might be gamebreaking; it might be enough to dissuade people from researching Particle Beam or Needler weapons entirely.
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Btw, the pistol used is UFA AI isn't 9mm. Read ufopaedia a bit.
My mistake, it's 7.62mm. Not sure why but I was assuming it would fire 9x19mm NATO.
And what are those "battle rifles" of yours supposed to be? High caliber ARs? I'm sorry that's impossible unless you want to treat your soldiers with dislodged shoulder after they try to fire burst from it.
The assault rifle in game is described as firing 4.7mm ammunition. By battle rifle I mean something like an FN FAL or Beretta BM59 which fire 7.62x51mm NATO. I'm not saying this should necessarily be included in the game, but it makes more sense IMHO than upgrading an assault rifle with alien tech.
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Well... (pause) ... I was thinking of upgrades to existing weapons and not new weapons as such, but it seems that all weapons threads veer sharply towards bigger, better and above all else newer guns :)
So back to upgrades: the ability to load a magazine with a newer type of ammo helps a lot in that regard, although ammo capacity really should be dependent on the magazine and not the weapon in weapons that use magazines.
Add-ons such as improved sighting etc should be okay.
Upgrades to the construction processes of the weapon, producing it faster and cheaper, are easy.
But upgrades to the actual structure of the weapon and/or alterations to its primary mode of operations would be something else entirely, I think.
... oh, btw... :) kerrblade shotshells, while deadly and perhaps unbalancing, wouldn't be so far out of line technically, I think. I imagine a set of 6 curved scalpel blades set in a rosette pattern in a nanocomposite base in a nanocomposite sabot, sharp edges forward. When the shell is fired the rosette will slam into the unfortunate alien, slice into the armor until the nc base smacks into the armor and the "scalpels" will then depart the base and spend a second roaming around inside the alien.
So its structured very much like the flechette rounds that the shotguns are already supposed to be loaded with except these rounds would have a very low effective range.
The result should be powder burns on the alien armor around 6 slots in a rosette pattern... and randomized alien leaking out of the lower joints of the armor.
Of course if the kerrshotshell is insufficient for the task then just as the grenade launcher can fire a king-sized version of a flechette shell... ;D
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Hey there, i started playing 2.3 and share same thoughts as here were indicated:
These were some ideas:
- After having researched laser you can improve sniperrifle with a better aiming laser, reducing spread a tiny bit.
- After researching kerrblade, upgrading some assaultrifles with an kerrbladebayonet making it usable for stabbing in close combat.
- Researching plasma (aliens use a way better coolingtechnoligy for their plasma weapons) you can improve laserguns with better cooling, making them shoot faster (less tp)
- For all weapons shooting bullets improved Ammunition, made out of Alien material
- improvement of grenadelauncher should make a bit higher range (btw, it should be possible to shoot/throw in a high arc standing on the one side of a wall to the other side)
Edit: Corrected Typo
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If i was geever, i'd give you a ticket for the idea not forgettable.
But i agree with you.
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If i was geever, i'd give you a ticket for the idea not forgettable.
If I were geever, I'd let Winter and BTAxis consider these ideas...
-geever
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So to which of my Ideas do you refer?
Basicly used the search to find topics about weapon improvements and this was the only one i found and i don`t know what was already discussed in the past :)