UFO:Alien Invasion
General => Discussion => Topic started by: Branes on August 22, 2009, 07:39:46 am
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You decided a long time ago that you didn't want players doing the "kill an alien, save the game, Xcom thing."
So what? Why should YOU care how a person plays the game? Maybe I don't have umpteen thousand hours of playing time to constantly restart the game after my team gets wiped. What gives you the right to tell people how to play? You design a game based on Xcom and it's gameplay, yet you keep out one of the most useful features of the game because YOU want to insure that a person can't make it easier to succeed. That's despotic.
I'm getting the impression that you developers just don't want to hear what your playing audience wants.
Not allowing saves during a very long tedious turn based combat sequence is foolish to the extreme and frankly smacks of controlling behavior. What you game developers don't seem to understand is that saving and restoring is the ONLY way some people are capable of winning a game, either that or outright cheating. Not everyone has the same gaming abilities.
And if you don't allow saves during combat AND limit the number of replacement soldiers available afterwards, you have essentially doomed the player to failure after the first team wipeout. Or worse, they have to continually replay the same combat scenario until they get a favorable outcome. That is not only stupid, it's cruel. And for me it's a serious deal breaker.
Some of us, don't have time to replay a combat sequence every time we have a computer crash or in my case, power outage since I live in central Florida, one of the most active electrical storm areas in the world. It's a shame really, because I was beginning to enjoy the game. It is one of the best Xcom derived games I've played, and I've played just about all of them. Unlike most, you've managed to capture the suspenseful feeling of the original, something that is missing from most spinoffs. Unfortunately, without a save game feature in the battlescape mode, I will not continue to play this game...or yours.
And by the way, I'm not some angry teen. I've been playing computer games since first playing Pong in a bar in Okinawa in 1971.
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What gives you the right to tell people how to play?
Did we tell you? I don't think so.
You design a game
Dot. No more. We design it and we know how we want it to work. (It gives us the right to do as we want.)
But let me ask you a question: What gives you the right to tell us how to write the game?
You're a player? It doesn't mean you have rights on design.
Anyway combat doesn't take so long you cannot finish it. If you have power cuts so often you should get some special power supply.
-geever
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geever is right - on all counts from where I stand.
This project isn't a democracy, although it is open-source and released under a nice, liberal GPL license that allows you to alter it yourself any way you please, including making changes that you would want even though they wouldn't be in an official release.
No one here is holding a gun to your head and forcing you to play this game - With regards to the "deal-breaker" you mentioned, if you are really dissatisfied with the game as it is and unhappy to play it, you're welcome to ask for a full refund of what you paid for it.
Also as geever pointed out: If you're in Florida, you're in the United States of America like myself, and you can easily get a battery backup/surge protection system which you should probably have anyways if power failure is such an issue where you live.
If you can't find one locally, you can order some very good ones:
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/category/category_tlc.asp?CatId=20&srkey=battery%20backup
APC is a very good brand, giving virtually no interruption in power whatsoever and very reliable as far as these things go. I have one myself, it lasts for more than an hour in a blackout and wasn't very expensive.
I hope you now understand why that thread was locked - There isn't any magical combination of words you could post that would likely change what has been established as a final decision on the matter.
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How about making a little democracy just by "custom difficulty" where player can chose starting money, happyness, debts, and ability to save during missions.
I think that this, if agreed, should be very low priority "feature"
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It won't be agreed. Personally I wouldn't mind an optional in-battle save feature (disabled by default), but Mattn is adamant, and I'll continue to support him in that decision. There will be no battlescape saving in any official release of UFO:AI.
As everyone else has said, feel free to code it -- you can even put the patch all over the forums. Just stop whinging at us for it.
Regards,
Winter
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I won't explain it in detail but it would be quite difficult to make it technically and we don't wanna write AND maintain that code. I guess that is why mattn (and myself) is against it.
-geever
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How about making a little democracy just by "custom difficulty" where player can chose starting money, happyness, debts, and ability to save during missions.
I think that this, if agreed, should be very low priority "feature"
Saving in combat just won't be implemented in an official release, no matter what anyone says, arguing about that fact is pointless, but with regards to these other aspects of a "custom difficulty" as you mentioned, all you have to do is edit the .ufo files.
The .ufo files are in plain English, read by the game every time it starts, and can be modified with any common text editor (including Windows notepad or wordpad), and don't require any programming knowledge to work with.
In the .ufo files you can play with most stats and such of the game, including difficulty and what the player starts with.
The .ufo files also allow changing how weapons are balanced, researched, etc., how aircraft work, etc., enough to almost build a new game with enough work, or at least a new campaign.
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Branes,
you may also want to read this post about it:
http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?topic=3147.msg21518#msg21518 (http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?topic=3147.msg21518#msg21518)
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Hi Barnes,
And welcome to the game first.
I thnk u have not explained where u r coming from, other than the fact that u commented on the lack of save / load feature within the battles (known as battlescape on UFOAI).
We also do not know what experience u have from UFOAI (Neither the versions u have played, the platform u r on, nor the kind of gaming experience u have).
U have been playing games since 1971, so have i from 1984. Yet, though ppl may start gaming earli or later, they might simply end up having a reverse amount of experience not-relative to the years of gaming experience.
For example, i do not boast that i play every game there is out there, but its RPG, i have played almost every single darn chinese and english main stream RPGs out there. Including 4x strategy esp for space science genres.
And neither do we wan to thnk or assume everyone who post a thread like yours are punks. What makes u thnk so? A sense of insecurities or simply bad experience on other forums? Pls do not dismiss anyone off on a new forum u r on, (considering u put up post entry nos 1 only). Its not fair to the many good men and women here.
Back to game mechanics:
I have encountered many types of play designs, including the ones where u can save every turn, in and out of combat, to those tat u can not even save until one darn major stage is completed.
I see ppl complain but yet still play on even paying for em. Maybe u thnk this is open source and freeware, hence u can push things thru the way u want it.
Open source simply means that its free for all to grab, modify and distribute in a sense. It however does not mean developers must follow everyone's way who is making a suggestion.
They still have their designs, concepts, and implementations, but open for all to see - their codes, so that bugs, experience can be enhanced / corrected. It also makes the project transparant, so that all can understand the codes (if they are trained to do so, or training themselves to be able to do so).
Hence, many open source projects (including even mozilla firefox) have spins offs..... like firefox for ubuntu etc, by hardcore fans.
Point here is: All open source programs (including a game proj like this UFOAI) are for all to see, use and deploy. They are also free to modify and 'MOD'ded into a version they like. Ppl are free to contribute to the development of the project and free to continue modding it and suggesting changes.
If u like it, good, enjoy and progress with it. If u dun like it, study it, and change it and suggest it.
Hope this does not sound like another -tell-you-off- reply, but that it will be received in good light. I am having a splitting headache too, so my english may be off standards today too.
Feel free to clarify points and enjoy the projects and the uniqueness of the features ok? And no, pls dun start a flaming war here though, again though i would give u the benefit of the doubt that u commented becos u love the proj, and hope it will be the way u preferred it to be, though not all wants and desires can be met here, becos of the HUGE community. :D
Toodles.
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Odie,
Thank you for your thoughtful and respectful response.
As I said, my gaming experience goes back to days before PC's even existed. I was in Okinawa in late 1971 on R&R from Vietnam when I saw a strange looking machine in a bar in Koza. I was called Pong and was being tested by a company called Atari. After waiting a considerable amount of time, because it was extremely popular, I was able to play it and became immediately hooked. It had just been delivered a couple of days earlier. I had been a board game player for many years, but this, this was something unique. So, I can say confidently that I am one of the first hundred or so Americans to EVER play any video game at any time. And I have been playing them since the introduction of the Atari VCS later known as the 2600. I've had computers of every kind including the Timex Sinclair, Commodore Vic 20, Atari 400, Atari 800XKL, Amiga 500 and 2500, one old classic one piece Mac, and PC's dating back to the Compaq 8088 portable which I still have. It has a 10MB hard drive and uses 2 5 1/4" floppy drives with Dos 3.3. and still boots BTW...so much for the Y2K bug. As you can probably guess, I'm in my late 50's and retired.
There are two sides to this issue. Those that like the idea of a battlescape save and those that think the game is better without it. But actually, that's only one side, because those who don't like it, don't have to use it. They can play ironman if they want. And that's the nature of the right to choice. And that's what the developers are depriving us of as players. The right to choose how we want to play. In some games, like Tetris, or video oriented games that's not a big issue, But in a turn-based strategy game where every move could result in losing a squad or a couple of players you've taken time to develop, it becomes important.
I've read other comments where the developers decided they wanted you to have to do things a certain way..lose players you become attached to, operate under a handicap. It's their game, they have the right to impose whatever limitations they want on the game. But frankly, I'm not going to subject myself to being placed in a gamer's box, so i guess I'm just going to have to look elsewhere for my entertainment. Good luck to everyone.
But I'm just going to say one thing..this IS a free, open source game, but were it commercial and the developers had this attitude, it would fail miserably.
Feel free to lock this thread also. I won't be returning to respond to any comments.
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.... I saw a strange looking machine in a bar in Koza. I was called Pong and was being tested by a company called Atari.
Could you save in Pong? :P
Anyway games have rules. You should know that if you're a veteran player. And yes, this rule makes it more difficult but also more interesting. There is nothing more boring than a too easy game.
If you can't save you have to think more. "Can I do that without risking my men's life?", "How could I kill that alien..." Much more fun!
With saving you can simply play trial&error which is miserable..
But I'm just going to say one thing..this IS a free, open source game, but were it commercial and the developers had this attitude, it would fail miserably.
miserable, again..
-geever
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Though I don't need to save in a mission for gameplay reasons, there are two possible reasons I can think of which I have not seen yet:
* Bugs. Several times when playing the game, I've been dropped out of the game or had to abandon a mission due to bugs. I don't complain about the bugs per se, they are to be expected in a game under development (to be quite honest, some of them probably comes from playing on a laptop, which, as laptops typically are, is prone to overheating), but it kind of sucks when you've spent two hours on a mission and your remaining troopers get stuck in a staircase or the game locks up. Being able to save occasionally would help mitigate that.
* Bug fixing. I work with development, and when a customer has a problem, it's much easier to fix if you can duplicate it. Being able to post a savegame so that a developer can reproduce a bug in his development environment would cut down a lot on tedious bug searching.
I just wanted to put those argument forward, in order to enlarge the view to cover what I believe is previously undiscussed terrain.
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But I'm just going to say one thing..this IS a free, open source game, but were it commercial and the developers had this attitude, it would fail miserably.
Honestly, I doubt that. After all, EA are still in business.
We're making a game that people seem to agree is fun to play, on many different levels. That's good enough for me.
Regards,
Winter
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I don't understand why people keep whining about the battlescape save as if we're infringing on a basic human right. There are quite simply two reasons why it's not going to happen: we don't really want it and it's a coding nightmare. The first is an opinion we're not going to change our minds on, the second isn't even a matter of opinion.
So yeah, people can either live with the situation, or... not, I guess.
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Offtopic, but quick question, Are all the .ufo files generated manually? Does UFO Radiant create or edit them?
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Offtopic, but quick question, Are all the .ufo files generated manually? Does UFO Radiant create or edit them?
Yes. No.
The .ufo files can be opened, changed, and re-saved with any common text editor - including notepad or wordpad on Windows. Personally I prefer wordpad, as it formats the lines of data better to make it easier to read.
They get updated with SVN revisions sometimes, when things get re-balanced or the code reads them differently.
Radiant doesn't use them as far as I know.
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Odie,
Thank you for your thoughtful and respectful response.
As I said, my gaming experience goes back to days before PC's even existed. I was in Okinawa in late 1971 on R&R from Vietnam when I saw a strange looking machine in a bar in Koza. I was called Pong and was being tested by a company called Atari. After waiting a considerable amount of time, because it was extremely popular, I was able to play it and became immediately hooked. It had just been delivered a couple of days earlier. I had been a board game player for many years, but this, this was something unique. So, I can say confidently that I am one of the first hundred or so Americans to EVER play any video game at any time. And I have been playing them since the introduction of the Atari VCS later known as the 2600. I've had computers of every kind including the Timex Sinclair, Commodore Vic 20, Atari 400, Atari 800XKL, Amiga 500 and 2500, one old classic one piece Mac, and PC's dating back to the Compaq 8088 portable which I still have. It has a 10MB hard drive and uses 2 5 1/4" floppy drives with Dos 3.3. and still boots BTW...so much for the Y2K bug. As you can probably guess, I'm in my late 50's and retired.
There are two sides to this issue. Those that like the idea of a battlescape save and those that think the game is better without it. But actually, that's only one side, because those who don't like it, don't have to use it. They can play ironman if they want. And that's the nature of the right to choice. And that's what the developers are depriving us of as players. The right to choose how we want to play. In some games, like Tetris, or video oriented games that's not a big issue, But in a turn-based strategy game where every move could result in losing a squad or a couple of players you've taken time to develop, it becomes important.
I've read other comments where the developers decided they wanted you to have to do things a certain way..lose players you become attached to, operate under a handicap. It's their game, they have the right to impose whatever limitations they want on the game. But frankly, I'm not going to subject myself to being placed in a gamer's box, so i guess I'm just going to have to look elsewhere for my entertainment. Good luck to everyone.
But I'm just going to say one thing..this IS a free, open source game, but were it commercial and the developers had this attitude, it would fail miserably.
Feel free to lock this thread also. I won't be returning to respond to any comments.
Branes,
No prob. :D Well, i would say, we have to give the designers of this game much, if not TONS of credits for coming up with this incredible game. Its based on DOOM engine (IIRC, correct if wrong) and its an incredible work.
If u have played other 4x strategy, u prob heard of another open source called Battle for Wesnoth. In the same way, it was much simpler in design and programming, still, they allow saves for own player turn (at start only) and none (actually there's a way but i am not giving it away) during enemies turn. Ppl complain that there should be save for every turn including enemies and stuff......
But i like the way the designers insisted on their designs - which limits the way and style of play, hence forcing strategies to be re-thinked and sorts.
Its also liken to why i dun like arcades FPS so much, since u cannot save while in mission; This also reminds me of an incredible old-time arcade, called Super Marios (nos 1, which has basic missions and 200+ secret under water missions......). U cannot save, u have to complete it in one go, and nobody's complaining tat u cannot save Super mario. Why? Lol. I leave tat room for thinking.
I believe, now coming back to UFOAI, its good to have saves outside battlescapes; its sad that there is no saves during battlescapes. But its what make this game unique, and makes u really think hard and plan before throwing tat one grenade so close, or risking close combat stunning....... Its a strategy which reminds me of another game called Operation Flashpoint, where u r soldier, running FPS, and u need complete a mission, and u make 1 silly / stupid / mistake, and voila - pls retry the game again.
Is anyone complaining Ops flashpoint? Yes. Does that stopped it from being the best game of the year with 2 full add on packs with tons more campaigns? No. Haha.
I still hope Branes, u enjoy the game with these limitations, but look on the bright side. When i was on officer's course, there is this saying:
"There are only 2 types of things / situations in the world:
1) Things within your control
2) Things beyond your control
If 1), then do what u can to make things better. Contribute constructively and keep positiveness in sight.
If 2), then look for things tat are 1) and refer to point 1 earlier.
If 2), and insist on doing something to it..... then perhaps be advised u need TONS of endurance, persistance, a whole new group of ppl to help u or simply change the management.
*
Haha. Sounds good?
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Its based on DOOM engine (IIRC, correct if wrong) and its an incredible work.
modified Quake2
-geever
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I don't understand why people keep whining about the battlescape save as if we're infringing on a basic human right. There are quite simply two reasons why it's not going to happen: we don't really want it and it's a coding nightmare. The first is an opinion we're not going to change our minds on, the second isn't even a matter of opinion.
So yeah, people can either live with the situation, or... not, I guess.
I can understand the second specified argument, namely that battlescape saving is not implemented for technical reasons ("coding nightmare"). However, I am unable to understand the first specified argument, namely that it is disallowed for design reasons. What would be wrong with the option of disallowing battlescape saving in the difficulty settings at the start of the game? This would satisfy everyone, because it would allow everyone to play the way they want to play.
I respect the developers' decision to not implement this feature for technical reasons. However, what I really can't understand is the fact that this thread (http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?topic=937.0) in which this topic is being discussed has been locked, thereby preventing further discussion on this topic. Since this is a controversial topic and it will certainly remain controversial in the foreseeable future, it seems appropriate to me to allow this discussion to continue. Even if the developers no longer wish to take part in this discussion, such a discussion might inspire someone else to make an unofficial patch.
For the above reasons, I request that the previous thread (http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?topic=937.0) be unlocked. Surely, it cannot be in the interest of anyone to censor the UFO:AI community.
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We don't need any more discussion about it. If you make a modification you can share it with other players in the User modifications (http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?board=15.0) forum.
-geever
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We don't need any more discussion about it.
Yes, several official developers have stated this opinion. But is this a valid reason to forbid any further discussion about this topic, by locking the thread? Such censorship is disrespectful to the UFO:AI community, in my opinion. It is also counterproductive, as it prevents people from posting new ideas they have on this matter.
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Yes, several official developers have stated this opinion. But is this a valid reason to forbid any further discussion about this topic, by locking the thread? Such censorship is disrespectful to the UFO:AI community, in my opinion. It is also counterproductive, as it prevents people from posting new ideas they have on this matter.
"New ideas" are really irrelevant - A final decision on the matter has already been made, it doesn't need to be discussed any more, it isn't "counterproductive" because it has already gotten to the end. If you want to make a mod that does it, fine, but please don't pick at it anymore.
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"New ideas" are really irrelevant - A final decision on the matter has already been made, it doesn't need to be discussed any more, it isn't "counterproductive" because it has already gotten to the end.
I completely disagree. The "final decision" you are referencing was made by official developers and concerns only the official SVN repository. However, there may be other potential patch coders out there who would be interested in "new ideas" on this topic. Therefore, I cannot agree with your statement that such "new ideas" are "irrelevant".
For this reason, I continue to believe that the locking of the thread is counterproductive and against the spirit of open source.
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I completely disagree. The "final decision" you are referencing was made by official developers and concerns only the official SVN repository. However, there may be other potential patch coders out there who would be interested in "new ideas" on this topic. Therefore, I cannot agree with your statement that such "new ideas" are "irrelevant".
and because of this you can open a thread in "user modifications" so that anyone able to do this can create a mod for the game so you are able to save during battlescape...
but a discussion in the official forums / threads won't do or change anything
so discussion about anything possible to create a "save during battle"-mod should be started / continued in the user-mod forum
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I completely disagree. The "final decision" you are referencing was made by official developers and concerns only the official SVN repository. However, there may be other potential patch coders out there who would be interested in "new ideas" on this topic. Therefore, I cannot agree with your statement that such "new ideas" are "irrelevant".
For this reason, I continue to believe that the locking of the thread is counterproductive and against the spirit of open source.
Just because this project is open source doesn't mean the design game-plan is also open for anyone to come along and change whatever they want in the official blueprint - if that happened it would fall into a chaotic mess with everyone constantly changing things and that would be counter-productive.
There isn't any magical combination of words you can post to change our minds - Honestly, do you really think you can win this pointless argument?
As Thyranim - and many of the others here have said - If you want a mod, go for it, it can go in that section of the forum, but please stop pushing for it in the official release, it won't happen.
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Blah blah blah BLAH . . . .
Surrealistik, I thought we told you to get out and don't come back.
Regards,
Winter
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I can understand the second specified argument, namely that battlescape saving is not implemented for technical reasons ("coding nightmare"). However, I am unable to understand the first specified argument, namely that it is disallowed for design reasons. What would be wrong with the option of disallowing battlescape saving in the difficulty settings at the start of the game? This would satisfy everyone, because it would allow everyone to play the way they want to play.
I respect the developers' decision to not implement this feature for technical reasons. However, what I really can't understand is the fact that this thread (http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?topic=937.0) in which this topic is being discussed has been locked, thereby preventing further discussion on this topic. Since this is a controversial topic and it will certainly remain controversial in the foreseeable future, it seems appropriate to me to allow this discussion to continue. Even if the developers no longer wish to take part in this discussion, such a discussion might inspire someone else to make an unofficial patch.
For the above reasons, I request that the previous thread (http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?topic=937.0) be unlocked. Surely, it cannot be in the interest of anyone to censor the UFO:AI community.
well they work on that game and is their decision if for someone is too hard to play,should just play sumfin other.
about locked topic,devs said many times so that discuccion is useless so they already decided so why ppl still trying ? want more post on ur accounts lol? thing was said and as for me locking is understadable all got an patience limit .
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I think the main problem here is the layout of the UFO:AI forum.
Let's look for example at the OpenTTD project (http://www.openttd.org/), which has very similar goals as UFO:AI, except that it is based on the game Transport Tycoon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transport_Tycoon_Deluxe) instead of XCOM. OpenTTD offers a sub-forum for suggestions (http://www.tt-forums.net/viewforum.php?f=32), where anyone can write their ideas to improve the game and these ideas are then discussed. Of these ideas, only about 5% ever get implemented as a patch by an unofficial developer and probably less than 1% ever make it into the official SVN repository. Despite these very low chances of implementation, the OpenTTD suggestions forum is still a very pleasant place to exchange ideas with other players.
As a veteran user of this OpenTTD forum and its suggestions sub-forum, it is very hard for me to understand the policy of the UFO:AI forum in which threads with ideas that the developers don't agree with are locked and not to be further discussed by the players. Such a policy would be unimaginable on the OpenTTD suggestion forum, as this would cause 99% of all threads to be locked.
In OpenTTD, many important developments originated as ideas in the suggestion forum, which were then discussed. This discussion then inspired people to have additional, more refined ideas, which in turn inspired people to make unofficial patches that implement some of these ideas. These patches then inspired further ideas and patches, which eventually inspired official developers to include some of these patches in the official SVN repository or to make their own patches. All this inspiring and productive exchange of ideas would never have happened if the threads containing all the initial unrefined ideas had been locked.
It is not my intention to push the official developers to change their opinion on battlescape saves, especially since they have presented good reasons not to implement it. I also have no intention to write such a patch myself, at least not before the next stable version is released. My intention is rather to convince the forum moderators to change their policy regarding the suppression of ideas by locking threads, in order to allow a similar exchange of ideas as on the OpenTTD forums, as I have described above.
I fully understand that most developers don't want to constantly read new ideas regarding topics that they have already dismissed. Therefore, why not make an additional sub-forum for suggestions, as has been done on the OpenTTD forums? Wouldn't that be best for everyone?
After having been disappointed by Project Xenocide, I have come to the conclusion that UFO:AI is the most promising game based on XCOM. As a fan of the XCOM series, I have great interest in taking part in the UFO:AI community, as I have previously done with the OpenTTD project. So far, the only thing preventing me from actively taking part in the community are the reasons stated above, as I do not wish to take part in a community in which ideas cannot be exchanged freely.
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make a suggestion of a feature, make a wish, ok
i think the least of all suggestions will be declined in the beginning.
so all and everyone can discuss in how to do this and if yes or no
but this save-wish is one, that will not ever be in the main-game
every other change or improvmenet or addition can be discussed with all pros and cons so that there is a solution at the end of the long discussion with which everyone can live with
only because of this "this will never be in the main game" someone should create a thread in the user-mod forum so anyone who wants this feature can discuss there who to do this.
as you mentioned, this would be an unofficial patch than, a mod
it's nothing else as in openttd, other than the fact that you have got the decision of never getting this inside the main game and so should continue the discussion in another forum
the orignial thread wouldn't have been locked if the discussion in the official discussion thread would have stopped and continued in the user-mod-forum
so continue any discussion here of what to do and what not to do is just a waste in time ;)
(hopefully it's still understandable? ??? )
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Tekky, I'm not even sure what you're arguing for anymore - We've already answered your questions over and over again, yet you keep pushing and shoving the same requests for something that will *not* happen, simply re-phrased over and over again. You've gotten your answers, we've explained our reasons, and if you don't like our answers or reasons, then simply put, tough shit. If you disagree, then so be it, you're entitled to your own perspective but that doesn't mean you're going to win or that you're even right.
As stated - AGAIN - if you want a save-in-combat feature or discussion about it, you can discuss it in the modding section, as a mod and not for the official release. That is the ONLY way, period, the end.
There isn't anything you can do - no combination of words after words you can continue to spew out that will change that, you're not going to win anything else, you won't see the whole development team suddenly give up and say "okay, you win and we'll do everything you're way, re-vamping everything how you want it..." Trust me, it will NOT happen, now matter how many times you re-phrase your statements.
Further, by continuing to shove this down our throats you're proving to be quite a pain, and are becoming quite irritating. I'd advise you not to continue this, and unless you have anything actually NEW to say you may find this thread locked as well, for good reason.
If you want to join our community, fine, but contribute - Don't come here fighting us every step of the way.
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We don't need any more discussion about it. If you make a modification you can share it with other players in the User modifications (http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?board=15.0) forum.
If you want a mod, go for it, it can go in that section of the forum
I am sorry, I think I misunderstood the quoted sentences above. I thought I was being told to make my own mod and post it in the mod forum. Therefore, I assumed I was forbidden to do any further discussion until I made such a mod. That's why I was complaining about censorship. Is my understanding correct that this assumption of mine was incorrect? It is permissible to start a thread in a mod section even if I have no plans to make such a mod?
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> It is permissible to start a thread in a mod section even if I have no plans to make such a mod?
Sure you can. May be there will be someone who codes that mod.
Just no need to munch and ruminate one single idea, that`s all.
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Every time I see this kind of discussion I lol hard because people that argue with the devs/designers seem to completely not understand what open-source means. Everyone seems to think open-source is some sort of communist approach to coding and the coders have a responsibility for the 'greater good' so they have to do what everyone wants, and everyone is entitled to something... and it is not.
In a nutshell all you get is the code, you can look at it and you can reuse it if you don't charge for it. That's it. They don't even have to compile it for you!
Oh yeah, and if you think about it... if it's a lot of work and it's a feature you don't like, you don't want, would you work on it? Would you really?
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> It is permissible to start a thread in a mod section even if I have no plans to make such a mod?
Sure you can. May be there will be someone who codes that mod.
Thanks, I am pleased to see that my concerns about censorship of discussion turned out to be wrong.
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Hi everyone,
A small offtopic about savegames - the most hardcore savegame feature I've ever encountered was in Warhammer 40k Chaos Gate (IMO one of the best games ever and similar to UFO:AI but without base management - limited ammount of troops (at about 60 for whole game) and supplies, ranks for troops; equip them, go to "battlescape" and kill enemies). There were 4 difficulty levels:
Space Marine - easy, player's units generally stronger, enemy generally weaker
Veteran - average
Champion - hard, opposite of easy
Mighty Hero - same as Champion except for saves - at the beginning of campain you choose a single savegame file, and the game is saved automatically whenever you quit and when one of your soldiers dies in combat. Sweet, isn't it?
Ability to save game during battlescape would enable such "Mighty Hero" difficulty level in UFO:AI, that is, there would be a single save for both geoscape and battlescape, so you couldn't load and choose another equipment. Consider implementing this nightmare of a code to enable that kind of challenge:P (that's an argument for adding battlescape saves in order to make the game harder, not easier:P)
I'm not even close to being good enough player to try that level of difficulty, but I'm sure some of you are:)
If implemented, I would enable battlescape saves at will in easiest difficulty setting, but I'm not a developer, so it's just a suggestion which, I guess, will be rejected:P
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... a single savegame file, and the game is saved automatically whenever you quit and when one of your soldiers dies in combat.
At least that's the best concept I've heard of so far if you want to achieve that saves can't be exploited :)
EDIT: forget it, people will copy savegames around and have as many of them as they like.
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Right, I forgot about that...
Isn't there any way of "chmod"ing them into read-only while UFO:AI is running in such a way that only the game can "chmod" it back? Or would it, even if possible, waay too much trouble?
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every attribute the game sets, can be unset by the user
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A small offtopic about savegames - the most hardcore savegame feature I've ever encountered was in Warhammer 40k Chaos Gate (snip) There were 4 difficulty levels: (snip)
A somewhat similar system was used in Warlords Battlecry. It had, iirc, three levels:
* Tin man. Ordinary saves, ordinary XP.
* Bronze man. Ordinary saves, if you die, lose XP, but if you win, +50% XP.
* Iron man. If you die, it's game over. +100% XP.
The exact levels may be off, but the idea is that you get punished for playing it safe.
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Actually I like the game they way it is (without saves). I used to play X-Com in the described manner of loading&saving a lot. But Alien Invasion is different. If the mission is close to the end and some soldiers die... they die. That's okay. And I like it that way - I actually experienced. It adds a bit of thrill to the game to know that you can't just rush around that corner and take a look... and load if it was the wrong decision. =)
Andreas
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2Developers
if you will not listen for what the players want, you will be the only players of this game.
2mod developers
just make the saving system as it was in x-com UFO.
yes, i will save&load before i will kill all alien & all my soldiers are alive. but i like it ;)
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thanks for sharing your wisdom.
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I think you should implement save during combat with another difficulty mode. And it should be called....
"Happy Happy Pony" mode.
I was going to say "Hello Kitty" mode, but that is trademarked. ;)
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I think you should implement save during combat with another difficulty mode. And it should be called....
"Happy Happy Pony" mode.
I was going to say "Hello Kitty" mode, but that is trademarked. ;)
Hahaha... Good idea!
2Developers
if you will not listen for what the players want, you will be the only players of this game.
2mod developers
just make the saving system as it was in x-com UFO.
yes, i will save&load before i will kill all alien & all my soldiers are alive. but i like it ;)
you know what? just code the "save-while-on-mission" part and maybe it will be in the official game under the "Happy Happy Pony" difficulty mode with a pink background :] and if not... hey, the game is open source, just implement it into your own build and start playing. where is the problem??
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Let the right peaope spend their energy on more important issues. ;)
Andy
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Holy Gripemunster, Batman! I hope Mattn and Geever don't get too disgruntled over the griping. Keep designing "your" game/gameplay and just let the whiners and critics surf on to something else. This is a neat project. I don't "like" every detail either, but I don't even have the time to help test, let alone assist in development, so I will just play and enjoy!
Kudos to ya'.
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Hi everybody
I'm new and I just want to say one thing:
I yearn to play ufoai ! But I have a great problem : lack of time : I can stay infront of my pc for 15-20min max every 3-4 days (this is due to my little son who rightly needs my attention). So the savegame in battlescape option would be very helpful for me otherwise I can't really play this game.
I deeply understand the devs decision but what I want to say is: if many ppl are asking you to add this option or something similar (many suggestion seem interesting)... please think about it or just say that you ( you that can) will think about it after the game is finished.
This is a prayer
Thanks for creating this game.
By
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When I get interrupted during a battle, I simply minimise UFO-AI; if I can't be back within a few minutes I set the computer to standby/sleep/hibernate. To the best of my knowledge, it's always possible to resume a game after it was minimised as long as you pause it before minimising.
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LOL @ the thread that will not go silently into the night
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I've only read the first page on this thread, but my 2c would be this.
1. It would not be that hard to code a save feature for this, a properly designed save game format would not even break current savegames. (IE people can make it themselves, without breaking current savegames provided the save format supports expansion)
2. As said in an above post, there is no need to save. Simply pausing the game and minimising, then hibernating, works fine.
If you need to save and go back to a specific point.... Why?
If you lose, you lose. Go back to your base and hire some new soldiers and fit them out with new equipment. Problem solved.
I have only ever lost a battle once (I've only been playing a week, things may change :P), it was on hard difficulty and I entered the battle with a 4 man team (out of soldiers to hire). I lost miserably. But just because I lost does not mean I go back and replay it 100 times to win it, or that I want to save every 3 seconds during a battle.
Just my rant.
~evilhamburger();