UFO:Alien Invasion
Technical support => Feature Requests => Topic started by: Whatever on August 21, 2009, 01:59:33 am
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I frequently get annoyed with the constant need to switch between the several modes of reaction fire. Might it not be easier to, instead of having a single button that cycles through the choices, that you simply select where you want to move, you can do it with some kind of preset button for a certain mode of fire.
So basically let's say your guy with a machine gun is trying to get under cover inside a building quickly and he is currently in single fire reaction mode. Instead of having to go take him off single button auto fire, you would mouse over the place you want to him walk and click a certain button and that certain button instantly shifts you to that other mode of fire and sends you to wherever you moused over. Then next turn you want to position yourself defensively facing the door with some space with multiple shot reaction fire to kill any alien who may run in after you. You mouse over the selected spot and click with a different pre-set button for multiple reaction fire mode in this case.
Normally I'd have to click the reaction fire twice to get to no reaction fire, then I'd have to click the location I want to walk to. Then I'd have to click the reaction fire twice again and then click to the location inside the building I want to make my defensive position at. 300% more clicking.
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*scratches head*
as much as i get is, you complain about the reservation of reaction-fire?
your guy can not walk unless you deactivate the reaction-fire-mode, because the mode forbids to spend a certain ammount of TU's so the soldier can actually use the reaction-fire
sadly, in the stable version the reaction-fire is right now gained from the next turn, making moving around in turns after used reaction fire nearly impossible without deactivating (the changelog for the newest dev-version points at a change there, so it works like intended)
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No. What I'm talking about has nothing to do with the stable versus dev versions of the game currently.
It's a suggestion to have a single button on the keyboard that will both shift you into a certain mode of reaction fire AND move you the selected destination you are moused over.
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from what i understand here u talkl bout thing wchich automatically switch reaction fire so ur soldier get enough TU to walk to place u click,sound good but what if u accidently click in place where that system will switch off reaction fire to give soldier enough TU ?not so safe thing i prefer to reserve certain amount manually
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from what i understand here u talkl bout thing wchich automatically switch reaction fire so ur soldier get enough TU to walk to place u click,sound good but what if u accidently click in place where that system will switch off reaction fire to give soldier enough TU ?not so safe thing i prefer to reserve certain amount manually
It wouldn't do that. The computer isn't shifting you out of any type of firing mode, onl thr player does. It would stop you when you ran out of TUs to do your reaction fire just like it normally does. The button would switch your reaction fire and then move you as far as you can go towards the selected square, like it already does.
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well, in all my plays, i never had the ammount to turn back on my reaction-fire if i moved my soldier farther then i could without deactivating the mode...
so, personally... i see no sense in this request since the outcome would be, the soldier can not reactionfire anymore in that turn if he moved to far
what you suggest is a bit weird, you know? nobody needs to deactivate reaction-fire to move the soldiers around @_@ but you say you do that allways it seems, just to reactivate it again *is confused*
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well, in all my plays, i never had the ammount to turn back on my reaction-fire if i moved my soldier farther then i could without deactivating the mode...
so, personally... i see no sense in this request since the outcome would be, the soldier can not reactionfire anymore in that turn if he moved to far
what you suggest is a bit weird, you know? nobody needs to deactivate reaction-fire to move the soldiers around @_@ but you say you do that allways it seems, just to reactivate it again *is confused*
You do seem confused and you aren't making much sense. I've twice now explained what I'm talking about. There is no way to make it any clearer that I can see.
And as a side note, you seem to be talking mostly about 2.2.1, which this suggested feature would be less userful for because of the cost associated with turning reaction fire on. Still would be useful, but notn nearly as much as in 2.3 + versions.
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from what i can gather he's asking that when you give a move order you get 3 move orders appear on screen, one with no reaction, one with some reaction and one with full reaction. then you select the movement you want from these.
or might be that he's suggesting you use left click to move with no reaction fire and right click move with reaction fire.
it does seem to be a little poorly worded
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from what i can gather he's asking that when you give a move order you get 3 move orders appear on screen, one with no reaction, one with some reaction and one with full reaction. then you select the movement you want from these.
or might be that he's suggesting you use left click to move with no reaction fire and right click move with reaction fire.
it does seem to be a little poorly worded
First paragraph sounds sort of right, except that it wouldn't appear "on screen", every mode of reaction fire will have its own key on the keyboard. So, say "c" button is "single fire" reaction mode. All you would need to do is press C button and your character will automatically switch to that type of reaction fire and move to the location your cursor was located.
This really isn't brain surgery...
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so what you are asking for is that each reaction mode has a keyboard short cut?
This really isn't brain surgery...
no the problem is that your wording is a little ambiguous, so as you know what you mean you read it that way.
where as we read it and we don't know which way you meant it. hence the attempt to clarify
these games have to be deigned so that everything can be done via the prime controller, so you can't have commands that you issue with the mouse that need a keyboard press to confirm. so if you give a move order with the mouse then the confirmation of the move order must also be done by the mouse so using the mouse to set a move order and then having to press a keyboard key to make it move is a a definate no no unless you also have a mouse command that can do the same thing.
however as there is a button on screen that you can use the mouse to set the reaction fire then having a keyboard short cut to set the mode is fine and i beleive already in there, there should also be no issue with changing that shortcut from toggle to a direct link however from a programming point of view it is always best if your keyboard shortcut are a direct match to the control for the mouse.
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There is no crouch button on my mouse, there is no "end turn" buttton on my mouse, there is no go to player X on my mouse, etc. Why does the mouse have to have parity with the keyboard suddenly when such parity never existed before? In short, I don't see your point.
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There is no crouch button on my mouse, there is no "end turn" buttton on my mouse, there is no go to player X on my mouse, etc. Why does the mouse have to have parity with the keyboard suddenly when such parity never existed before? In short, I don't see your point.
no but there is a crouch button on the screen that you can use the mouse to press, and same with the end turn and go to player.
the from an ease of use perspective the mouse is better than the keyboard which is why we use GUI's rather than the command prompt operating systems nowadays. touch screen is better again but is still in it's infancy so not in wide use.
with a keyboard you have limited number of commands and no way of displaying that function to the user bar pre printing.
with a screen you have as many option as you can fit places to click and can move change and basically do whatever you want with one.
i freely admit that for someone that is familiar with them then the keyboard is quicker that is why we still have keyboards
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no but there is a crouch button on the screen that you can use the mouse to press, and same with the end turn and go to player.
the from an ease of use perspective the mouse is better than the keyboard which is why we use GUI's rather than the command prompt operating systems nowadays. touch screen is better again but is still in it's infancy so not in wide use.
Yea, there is a crouch button, but it's not on the mouse. You missed the point. Alright TYPING. You cannot TYPE A SENTENCE with the mouse. How about that one, huh? The whole point is, you claim that the keyboard doing something the mouse can't do is a "no no", even though the mouse could do the exact same thing if the mouse user clicked on a couple of icons in the GUI. You have made zero compelling argument for why this is a "no no" or any argument at all for that matter.
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you can type with the mouse, you put a keyboard on screen and use that to click on each letter, it is the same technology that lets Quadriplegics use computers, if you know how to touch type then the speed is no where close to equal but you can do it
in fact that's software is now standard in windows and most other operating systems.
and i didn't say that it was wrong for the keyboard to do it i said that it was wrong to force the user to use 2 different input devices.if they want to they can but you can't force them to
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Where did you get the idea I was forcing people to do anything??? I suggested adding something, not taking it away.
My suggestion would not change the current keyboard/mouse/user dynamic, it would only reduce the overall clicking a player has to do in missions if they choose to use these new keys on the keyboard. They are just like a pre-programmed macro key.
I tested it a couple times already, and it is about 200% more "click" efficient but it highly depends on the soldier type. The more versatile the weapon, the more click saving. People with assault rifle/bolter rifle heavy teams could save up to 300%.
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i didn't say you were forcing i said that 'you' shouldn't force people to use multiple input devices the you being people that write software
it was in reference to
these games have to be deigned so that everything can be done via the prime controller, so you can't have commands that you issue with the mouse that need a keyboard press to confirm. so if you give a move order with the mouse then the confirmation of the move order must also be done by the mouse so using the mouse to set a move order and then having to press a keyboard key to make it move is a a definate no no unless you also have a mouse command that can do the same thing.
saying that it could be done as a keyboard shortcuts but it couldn't be build into the move command as it would require the user to use 2 input devices violating one of the principle of GUI design
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I don't give a damn about the "principles of GUI design." This is a video game, not a "GUI". Cite some principles of game design. I can assure you eliminate/reduce tedious gameplay is high on the list and maintaining the "principles of GUI design" are nowhere to be found on it.
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I don't give a damn about the "principles of GUI design." This is a video game, not a "GUI". Cite some principles of game design. I can assure you eliminate/reduce tedious gameplay is high on the list and maintaining the "principles of GUI design" are nowhere to be found on it.
a GUI is a Graphical User Interface, it covers all programs that interact with a user via graphics. so anything that uses a point and click system like say this, X com, command and conquer and any game that is not played directly through a keyboard interface like say FPS's or racing games.
in fact FPS are the prime example of when GUI design principles fail as if you had to move and shoot with the mouse they would be unplayable, so they are primary Keyboard based with optional mouse controls that are superior to the Keyboard options. but even though there are superior mouse control they still have the keyboard commands.
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Wow, thanks for explaining what a GUI is. I had no idea. Look, do you actually have a point? You have yet to make one in all your posts in this thread, other than some bogus claim about how macro keys, which are found in many video games, somehow violate imaginary "principles of GUI design".
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Wow, thanks for explaining what a GUI is. I had no idea. Look, do you actually have a point? You have yet to make one in all your posts in this thread, other than some bogus claim about how macro keys, which are found in many video games, somehow violate imaginary "principles of GUI design".
the point is the same as it has aways been, you can't have a mouse command that requires a keyboard press to confirm it. there has to be a way of doing it with the mouse. and changing the game so that you tell a unit where to move with the mouse and then having to press a key to say how to move is a bad idea
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the point is the same as it has aways been, you can't have a mouse command that requires a keyboard press to confirm it. there has to be a way of doing it with the mouse. and changing the game so that you tell a unit where to move with the mouse and then having to press a key to say how to move is a bad idea
There is a way to do it with the freakin mouse. It just takes way more clicks, and THAT'S THE PROBLEM.
Do I need to freaking explain AGAIN?
Goal: move my soldier who is currently in single reaction fire mode to the maximum move distance he can.
Currently I have two ways of doing this. I can mouse over the reaction fire button, click that twice, then left click the place I want to walk to. Alternatively, I can do essentially the same thing but use the keyboard to cycle through the reaction fire modes.
My idea is to have a key that combines switching to a certain type of reaction fire along with moving you to a designated spot.
You keep saying it's a bad idea to decrease needless button clicking. I guess you have never played any RTS, TBS games or even MMORPGs, as they all frequently make use of macro keys to simplify commonly used commands.
You just keep saying it's a "bad idea", but you have seem to have no idea why it's a bad idea, and it's getting quite tiresome. Make a point or stop posting in this thread.
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You just keep saying it's a "bad idea", but you have seem to have no idea why it's a bad idea, and it's getting quite tiresome. Make a point or stop posting in this thread.
i made a point but just as we had trouble seeing yours because of poor communication you seem to be having the same trouble with mine.
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i made a point but just as we had trouble seeing yours because of poor communication you seem to be having the same trouble with mine.
Your only supposed point that I've seen is, quite frankly, completely bogus. You might as well have argued that "santa claus doesn't like macro keys". It's an equally valid argument as to it violating some imaginary principles of GUI design.
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Your only supposed point that I've seen is, quite frankly, completely bogus. You might as well have argued that "santa claus doesn't like macro keys". It's an equally valid argument as to it violating some imaginary principles of GUI design.
perhaps you would like to read up on them http://www.classicsys.com/css06/cfm/article.cfm?articleid=20 (http://www.classicsys.com/css06/cfm/article.cfm?articleid=20)
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you will always find a smaller set of users who are not touch typists and hence embrace the mouse as a point-and-click nirvana. The result is that you need to provide complete and equal keyboard and mouse support for all menu and window operations.
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perhaps you would like to read up on them http://www.classicsys.com/css06/cfm/article.cfm?articleid=20 (http://www.classicsys.com/css06/cfm/article.cfm?articleid=20)
particularly
I like you omit the two paragraphs above that one, I'm sure that's not by accident. Usually when you are asked to support your argument, you don't offer a to completely debunk your own argument:
Keyboards are a common fixture on users' desktops and provide an efficient means to enter text and data. With the introduction of GUI applications, we often assume users will embrace a mouse as the primary interactive device. Using a mouse can become time-consuming and inefficient for the touch typist or frequent users of an application.
Keyboard accelerators can provide an efficient way for users to access specific menu items or controls in a window. The accelerators used should be easy to access and limited to one or two keys (such as F3 or Ctrl-P). Keyboards have limitations in the GUI world, such as when trying to implement direct-manipulation tasks like drag and drop, pointing, and re-sizing.
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Whoa...
Let's calm down a bit here and try to act more civil, shall we? This whole thread has quickly gotten quite silly with what's going back and forth, not to mention a bit vague about what is being argued over. First there is some initial disagreement over something actually related to the game, and it eventually turns into a back-and-forth nitpicking debate that leads to arguing about how each side is conducting the argument, continually snowballing into something more and more vague while having less and less to do with UFO: AI.
This thread really is getting childish - I don't know whether to laugh at how absurd it is getting or outright be pissed and ask you two to "take it outside."
This isn't very constructive...
Edit: I'll say this: If either of you want to suggest something to improve the game, that's fine, but please don't go into attacking each other in such a manner. Do either of you really expect to "win" if you resort to such measures?
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I like you omit the two paragraphs above that one, I'm sure that's not by accident. Usually when you are asked to support your argument, you don't offer a to completely debunk your own argument:
applicable to that, quoting more would have been superfluous
there was no need to include them as the need for keyboard short cuts isn't in question, what i said is that keyboard short cuts have to be in support of GUI commands and can't replace them, and what i quoted is what is
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Whoa...
Let's calm down a bit here and try to act more civil, shall we? This whole thread has quickly gotten quite silly with what's going back and forth, not to mention a bit vague about what is being argued over. First there is some initial disagreement over something actually related to the game, and it eventually turns into a back-and-forth nitpicking debate that leads to arguing about how each side is conducting the argument, continually snowballing into something more and more vague while having less and less to do with UFO: AI.
This thread really is getting childish - I don't know whether to laugh at how absurd it is getting or outright be pissed and ask you two to "take it outside."
This isn't very constructive...
i have been trying to keep it civil,unfortunately failior to get a point accross which seems simple to you but the other party is not grasping is quite frustratating.
however you are completely correct there is no longer even a pretence of attempting to understand the oposing point of view by either amd while that is the case it is impossible to acheive anything constructive, especially as this entire thing is down to miss communication and not a disagreement on any point
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Whatever, just use macros. Get AutoHotkey or AutoIT, do yourself a good macro, bind it and that's that. Asking for in-game macro engine might not yeld anything as most of the programmers are squashing bugs and getting new planned features up and running (you can of course make one yourself).
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Whatever, just use macros. Get AutoHotkey or AutoIT, do yourself a good macro, bind it and that's that. Asking for in-game macro engine might not yeld anything as most of the programmers are squashing bugs and getting new planned features up and running (you can of course make one yourself).
You can't. Well, not very well anyway. You'd have to have a macro listed for every reaction fire starting fire and ending reaction fire. Think about it. Starting from a single reaction fire to a no reaction fire would take two clicks, while going from multiple reaction fire to zero would only take one click. Further complicating it would be the fact that guns with only two modes of reaction fire would require a different set of macro keys, too. Further yet, as far as I can see, you still can't even initiate a "move" command with the keyboard. So all I could do is use one button to switch to a certain reaction fire and I'd have to use a dozen(or whatever) keyboard keys to do that and it would still only do half the job of my suggestion. Not exactly efficient.
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Edit: I'll say this: If either of you want to suggest something to improve the game, that's fine, but please don't go into attacking each other in such a manner. Do either of you really expect to "win" if you resort to such measures?
How many times must I repeat myself in perfectly clear English before I can become frustrated with people who continue to respond to my post with nonsensical gibberish and won't even bother reading what I write and instead claim I'm doing/saying/suggesting things I am not?
This is a simple case of one person with really bad reading comprehension and an inability to admit his error(s) and/or walk away.
And are you and the other devs aware that you are in grievous violation to the "principles of GUI design" by requiring me to press the escape button while playing the game in order to load, save, exit, or access the various options menus? No one will every play your game now.
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This is a simple case of one person with really bad reading comprehension and an inability to admit his error(s) and/or walk away.
This is what I'm talking about - You've already made your suggestion for the game, I've got that - but you go on beyond attacking the argument and start attacking the person you're in the argument with, which accomplishes just about nothing other than to "fuel the fire" and make people even more upset.
I've seen both sides in this fight display this behavior, and if it continues - and I don't like to do this - I'll have to start getting nasty and take measures to enforce order in this forum.
Now come on, I think both of you could handle this a bit better...
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This is what I'm talking about - You've already made your suggestion for the game, I've got that - but you go on beyond attacking the argument and start attacking the person you're in the argument with, which accomplishes just about nothing other than to "fuel the fire" and make people even more upset.
I've seen both sides in this fight display this behavior, and if it continues - and I don't like to do this - I'll have to start getting nasty and take measures to enforce order in this forum.
Now come on, I think both of you could handle this a bit better...
The problem is that he is supplying no argument. He is only posting in this thread to annoy people or troll the thread. I really have no idea which one of those is the case. This is clearly evident from his posts in this thread. I'm not gonna let someone troll my perfectly good idea. I've beta test dozens of games and if I ever offered a suggestion that was easily doable and significantly reduced tedious gameplay elements I would have devs and players doing backflips. This guy acts like I insulted his mother's book on GUI ethics.
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PLEASE... close this thread ::)
I'm not gonna let someone troll my perfectly good idea.
PS: i personally dont think it is a "perfectly good idea" --> principles of GUI design
but you can code it if you want... why not? but ask the devs before commiting it
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Agreed, this thread has gotten out of control, absurd, and then some.
Locked!