UFO:Alien Invasion

Technical support => Feature Requests => Topic started by: Gunner on August 10, 2009, 12:06:11 pm

Title: Licensing
Post by: Gunner on August 10, 2009, 12:06:11 pm
this idea may be totally fubar but here goes

as i understand it once research is done on a blueprint then earth factories start turning them out in small numbers that you can buy.

if in stead you sold the licences to produce the weapon you gain a small monthly income and an ability to Buy the equipment. the down side it that the amount you can sell the equipment is dramatically reduced.

so as an example plasma rifles.
you recover them from the battle field and can sell them at a high price because they are rare on earth. after research you determing how to produce then. how ever they are still rare as you are the only manufaturer. however there are 0 avalable for purchase

then you sell the licence, now you can buy the weapon on the open market and make a small monthly income off of it but the weapons that you claim on the battlefield are now only worth a 1/4 of what they were before being licensed.
Title: Re: Licensing
Post by: geever on August 10, 2009, 12:18:35 pm
Similar was suggested and rejected already IIRC.

-geever
Title: Re: Licensing
Post by: Gunner on August 11, 2009, 02:33:03 pm
Similar was suggested and rejected already IIRC.

-geever

be interesting to know why,
the changes code would be a minor tweak of what is already there, a boolean flag to the blue print, then a quick for loop in the monthly cost to calc the income and 2 if statements one on the price list and one of the production, and maybe an event to trigger a screen refresh

so i guess it wasn't dismissed for technical reasons. so probably just not a concept that was considered benifical.
i'll have another look and see if i can find it
Title: Re: Licensing
Post by: odie on August 19, 2009, 05:21:59 am
be interesting to know why,
the changes code would be a minor tweak of what is already there, a boolean flag to the blue print, then a quick for loop in the monthly cost to calc the income and 2 if statements one on the price list and one of the production, and maybe an event to trigger a screen refresh

so i guess it wasn't dismissed for technical reasons. so probably just not a concept that was considered benifical.
i'll have another look and see if i can find it

Well, thats just the way the developers want this game to be.

Gunner, ur suggestions is very similar to that of games like X-force, where u can research something, 'patent' it and sell the license..... just a caution here that this is UFOAI, a different game. :D

But i like the idea though, fyi. lol. Extra income. But then again, if u play this game well enough, u actually will have tons more cash than u need. :D
Title: Re: Licensing
Post by: Gunner on August 19, 2009, 11:05:31 am
Well, thats just the way the developers want this game to be.

Gunner, ur suggestions is very similar to that of games like X-force, where u can research something, 'patent' it and sell the license..... just a caution here that this is UFOAI, a different game. :D

never played X force so take your word for it.

i'm a developer myself so i understand the technical limitation of games development, i also understand that conceptual limitations, if you try and make a game that does everything you usually end up with a game so complex that it is either unplayable or plays itself.

But i like the idea though, fyi. lol. Extra income. But then again, if u play this game well enough, u actually will have tons more cash than u need. :D

it wouldn't be extra money, it would be having to choose between a small but steady income or large 1 off windfalls.
so say you sell off the patent for plasma rifles then you are earning much less from every alien mission that leaves PR's but in return you are now earning a constant monthly income.

there is a small issue with it making manufacturing redundant, as if you need something then you sell the patent and buy it. which is an issue i have noticed is already in UFO, once you research something unless you need a mountain of them then it's quicker and easier to buy them than build them infact other than dissasembling UFO's the main thing my workshops do is build rocket packs and gas grenades
Title: Re: Licensing
Post by: criusmac on August 19, 2009, 06:21:59 pm
From what I understand, the aliens already hold all the patents of their equipment, and if you try to produce or reverse engineer their products, they will try to kill you for it. This is since they have extremely strict patent laws, and 0 tolerance for breaking them.

Either way, I don't think you can patent, and try to make a profit off of their equipment without pissing off their corporations... assuming they have any...
Title: Re: Licensing
Post by: Gunner on August 19, 2009, 08:22:50 pm
From what I understand, the aliens already hold all the patents of their equipment, and if you try to produce or reverse engineer their products, they will try to kill you for it. This is since they have extremely strict patent laws, and 0 tolerance for breaking them.

Either way, I don't think you can patent, and try to make a profit off of their equipment without pissing off their corporations... assuming they have any...

a but earth is out side of there patent jurisdiction and never signed up to any inter-solar patent agreements. so they are out of luck
Title: Re: Licensing
Post by: gerald on August 20, 2009, 12:55:51 am
a but earth is out side of there patent jurisdiction and never signed up to any inter-solar patent agreements. so they are out of luck

they out of luck... but definitely not out of tons of not bad weapons and ammo :P
Title: Re: Licensing
Post by: Gunner on August 20, 2009, 10:27:47 am
they out of luck... but definitely not out of tons of not bad weapons and ammo :P

yes and we have them 2 now we have copied them, and we have the home side advantage. we are sitting on the factories making them they are at the end of a logistics train spread over multiple light years
Title: Re: Licensing
Post by: Ain Soph Aur on August 20, 2009, 01:51:25 pm
interesting idea, but maybe buying stuff instead of producing it, would be to easy... you need only money, thats all.
i think after implementing the feature, the game should be rebalanced.

maybe thats the reason they rejected the idea
Title: Re: Licensing
Post by: Gunner on August 20, 2009, 02:21:44 pm
interesting idea, but maybe buying stuff instead of producing it, would be to easy... you need only money, thats all.
i think after implementing the feature, the game should be rebalanced.

maybe thats the reason they rejected the idea

it would need balancing, but buying shouldn't need to replace production, as an example it would probably be more expensive buying than making it, so you have the choice of more money for right now or less money and you have to have to wait to build it. and buying would be limited to however many the factories are selling. once advance weapons hit the open market then every military in the world in going to be trying to buy them so stocks would be very limited.

admitedly i've not tried 2.3 yet but in 2.2 you can buy weapons that you research immediately. so buying instead of building is already an option
once i had researched the dragon's i went to build them but noticed there were already more than enough available in the shop to replace all my stilettos.
so this is a feature that is already included. just you don't earn an income from licensing the patents that seem to be given away as soon as you research them them
Title: Re: Licensing
Post by: shevegen on August 20, 2009, 05:10:21 pm
I dont like the patenting idea in itself, but I do think that weapons from aliens should be sellable.

Perhaps not officially, but there could be a "blackmarket". If the player chooses this option, and it is found out, it may have negative consequences (i.e losing support)

This may give him a slight strategic short-term benefit (i.e. money to buy new soldiers) while having some disadvantages in the long run. (But perhaps this is also not worth to have, it makes the game more complex too... I guess at second thought this is not a hugely important thing. In general what I would like to see is more options to leave cash-starved times during play especially at harder difficulties where money can become a very influencing factor).
Title: Re: Licensing
Post by: Gunner on August 20, 2009, 05:28:24 pm
I dont like the patenting idea in itself, but I do think that weapons from aliens should be sellable.

Perhaps not officially, but there could be a "blackmarket". If the player chooses this option, and it is found out, it may have negative consequences (i.e losing support)

you can already sell weapons, and why whould you sell to the blackmarket when legitimate militaries are falling over themselves to openly buy them?
Title: Re: Licensing
Post by: geever on August 20, 2009, 09:30:01 pm
This topic is useless. Your idea won't be implemented.

-geever
Title: Re: Licensing
Post by: odie on August 21, 2009, 09:43:19 am
This topic is useless. Your idea won't be implemented.

-geever

geever, might as well lock the thread? with the keynote - Proposal Received, Reviewed and Rejected.

:)

Maybe this could be the standard for closing unwanted topics / threads, in view we have many new users to forums. At least they see such things. Lol.

*Sidenote, crazy ideas.... : I know its cumbersome, but do u thnk we should keep a forum for admins only, to shifts such locked and rejected proposals into them? That way, ppl will know wats suggested, rejected, hence wont bring it up again. Of course, these remains locked so they cannot be 'reopened'.

Wat do u and the rest of the admins think? :D Should prove to be helpful in the long run.
Title: Re: Licensing
Post by: Gunner on August 21, 2009, 10:05:59 am
geever, might as well lock the thread? with the keynote - Proposal Received, Reviewed and Rejected.

:)

Maybe this could be the standard for closing unwanted topics / threads, in view we have many new users to forums. At least they see such things. Lol.

*Sidenote, crazy ideas.... : I know its cumbersome, but do u thnk we should keep a forum for admins only, to shifts such locked and rejected proposals into them? That way, ppl will know wats suggested, rejected, hence wont bring it up again. Of course, these remains locked so they cannot be 'reopened'.

Wat do u and the rest of the admins think? :D Should prove to be helpful in the long run.

well at least while they are open they people can talk about the idea with out opening a new one to trumpet there own special variation of the idea. eventually they will close themselves as people migrate to other topics
Title: Re: Licensing
Post by: odie on August 25, 2009, 10:58:59 am
never played X force so take your word for it.

i'm a developer myself so i understand the technical limitation of games development, i also understand that conceptual limitations, if you try and make a game that does everything you usually end up with a game so complex that it is either unplayable or plays itself.

it wouldn't be extra money, it would be having to choose between a small but steady income or large 1 off windfalls.

so say you sell off the patent for plasma rifles then you are earning much less from every alien mission that leaves PR's but in return you are now earning a constant monthly income.

there is a small issue with it making manufacturing redundant, as if you need something then you sell the patent and buy it. which is an issue i have noticed is already in UFO, once you research something unless you need a mountain of them then it's quicker and easier to buy them than build them infact other than dissasembling UFO's the main thing my workshops do is build rocket packs and gas grenades

Ah, I got your point on the patents. I tot u were referring to royalties.... (where profits come in on and on. I was referring to royalties instead then. :D)



From what I understand, the aliens already hold all the patents of their equipment, and if you try to produce or reverse engineer their products, they will try to kill you for it. This is since they have extremely strict patent laws, and 0 tolerance for breaking them.

Either way, I don't think you can patent, and try to make a profit off of their equipment without pissing off their corporations... assuming they have any...

HAHHAHAHAA. I ma have such a good laf over this one, criusmac. LOL.

I would love to plagarise and pirate their technology. LOL.

Maybe we could even setup spies and go in to steal techs? Or possibly have defectors who would join humans??

Okie, too far fetched. Take this suggestion as absurd, hahahhaa. Aniwae, just have a laf and see my nx point. :D



well at least while they are open they people can talk about the idea with out opening a new one to trumpet there own special variation of the idea. eventually they will close themselves as people migrate to other topics

Hmmmm..... no point de, my dear Gunner. Lol.

Its ok for ppl to come and go.... usually these are the ones who are not really constructive and do not contribute anything to the project anyway. In the real world, we call them energy takers.

Its ok for those to come and maybe be disappointed as to why certain things are not implemented (from the suggested "REJECTED FORUM"), yet, if they appreciate the work, and truly stick by the basic respect for designers, they turn into energy givers, and help further the existing designs, giving a push towards fine-tuning the existing designs and bettering it.

They might even become valuable and join as part of the team! Become GREAT energy givers.

Well, this is life, ppl come, ppl go. Someone used to say life is like a bus journey, and u r the captain of the bus.

Some passengers come at 1st stop, some midway, some almost end of journey. Some stay thru from stop 1 to stop last, some get off halfway, some 3/4, some only a few stops. Some are uber nice, chatty, some quiet, observe and get off, some violent and disrupt the journey but ultimately removed (by police or sorts), some taken down by other passengers when they are overly unbearing..... I guess we have to accept all passengers? :D

In summary, its ok for ppl to come and go on this project. I guess all projects want to see their fans only and new fans-to-be. AFAIK, this project alr has 2597 members as of today, but i am sure <10% are active now, with <5% actually contributing to the project. Thats still alot already. :D If more want to join, i am sure we are all happy to see new blood.
Title: Re: Licensing
Post by: Gunner on August 25, 2009, 11:19:34 am
Hmmmm..... no point de, my dear Gunner. Lol.

Its ok for ppl to come and go.... usually these are the ones who are not really constructive and do not contribute anything to the project anyway. In the real world, we call them energy takers.

Its ok for those to come and maybe be disappointed as to why certain things are not implemented (from the suggested "REJECTED FORUM"), yet, if they appreciate the work, and truly stick by the basic respect for designers, they turn into energy givers, and help further the existing designs, giving a push towards fine-tuning the existing designs and bettering it.

They might even become valuable and join as part of the team! Become GREAT energy givers.

Well, this is life, ppl come, ppl go. Someone used to say life is like a bus journey, and u r the captain of the bus.

Some passengers come at 1st stop, some midway, some almost end of journey. Some stay thru from stop 1 to stop last, some get off halfway, some 3/4, some only a few stops. Some are uber nice, chatty, some quiet, observe and get off, some violent and disrupt the journey but ultimately removed (by police or sorts), some taken down by other passengers when they are overly unbearing..... I guess we have to accept all passengers? :D

well i'm currently digging through the source, been too long since i last worked on a non OO language
Title: Re: Licensing
Post by: Profit- on September 21, 2009, 02:34:40 am
It appears to me UFO-AI is entirely built on OO programing...

Perhaps you are confusing Object Oriented, with GUI Design Integrated IDE's like visual basic?

Title: Re: Licensing
Post by: criusmac on September 21, 2009, 04:46:12 am
UFO: AI is built entirely in C. Not C++. There isn't an object anywhere in the source code.
Title: Re: Licensing
Post by: Profit- on September 21, 2009, 08:44:53 am
I am fairly certain being named objects does not matter, as long as it uses discrete code blocks.  I believe that as long as the code is not a simple top down and has functions that are independent with things passed to them, and returning values, it is object oriented code.  

Not 100% certain though.  I am a little foggy where modular programming ends, which they certainly use, and Object Oriented begins.  Just have always thought if one part of the program can be called from any part in the main thread and it is independent of it,  it is object oriented.
Title: Re: Licensing
Post by: Gunner on September 21, 2009, 10:29:41 am
It appears to me UFO-AI is entirely built on OO programing...

Perhaps you are confusing Object Oriented, with GUI Design Integrated IDE's like visual basic?

definitely not
there are 3 sorts of programming language Procedural based around calling Procedure, OO which is is based around grouped data structures and Method packets and functional which is based on defining functions.
it's C which is purely procedural with no OO, though i can see how you could make the mistake of linking it to VB, VB while a OO language still keeps most of the Procedural functionality of it's predecessors and while that back compatibility makes is easier for people to move into it from procedural it results in a large number of people writing OO code that have no idea what they are doing and continue to write Procedural code.
Title: Re: Licensing
Post by: Gunner on September 21, 2009, 10:32:07 am
I am fairly certain being named objects does not matter, as long as it uses discrete code blocks.  I believe that as long as the code is not a simple top down and has functions that are independent with things passed to them, and returning values, it is object oriented code. 

Not 100% certain though.  I am a little foggy where modular programming ends, which they certainly use, and Object Oriented begins.  Just have always thought if one part of the program can be called from any part in the main thread and it is independent of it,  it is object oriented.

it doesn't matter how discretely coded it it it still reacts differently to OO, in procedural code variable can be created and destroyed locally or exist global there is no equivalent to the to the object level variable, while it doesn't seem like a massive difference it does require a different mindset one that i haven't used in a long while
Title: Re: Licensing
Post by: Riker on September 21, 2009, 11:07:18 am
OT
A joke about different programming languages:
If you ask a programmer how to get somewhere his answer depends on the programming language he uses:
- C++: Go to that intersection, then right, straight, straight, straight and finally left and you will reach your destination.
- Pascal: Go to that intersection, turn right into Shakespeare st., next go to Goethe's st. and finally left into King's st. and there you are.
- Assembler: Go to that newsagent, buy a bus ticket, go to the bus stop over there and get on a bus, get out on the third stop, go through the underground passage and that's it.
- Prolog: You see that tall building with a red sign? That's it.
- Lisp: Go to that intersection and ask somebody there.
EOT