UFO:Alien Invasion
Technical support => Feature Requests => Topic started by: TrashMan on June 01, 2008, 09:37:16 pm
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One thing I haven't seen so far - it would be nice if you encountered local troops trying to contain aliens, and not only civilians.
Local troops would be be regular soldiers armed with assault rifles and other conventional weapons and they would help you fight aliens (but wouldn't be under your control).
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I believe such a suggestion was already brought up once - there are maps where the aliens are invading a military base and drug factory. Both groups or armed folk don't do much that is interesting. I think implementing some nice behavior is planned though.
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there has been chat about local police trying. and civvies with baseball bats, etc etc
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There's also a lot of military on the convoy ambush mission, but right now they are just victims.
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TAZ
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This really needs in...Would add flavor...F'course, you might need to increase the number of hostiles on such mission to keep the challenge rating.
Hmm..I've yet to play a base defense mission...do your workers/scientists appear inside the base when you're defending? Do they have some basic weapon (like a pistol?)
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i really enjoy this idea....
there was a mission on my last test run of the game involving the ambush of a military convoy.... I was stunned to land on the mission and find 3 unarmed civilians running towards the aliens (another thing i know we already addressed)
Ive never been involved or seen a military convoy that at least SOMEONE wasnt armed with an assault rifle and most with their sidearms...
I like the police and civilians with baseball bats.... however some civilians.. or ex military are heavily armed themselves.. and the aliens might find themselves trying to abduct my old friend who was a team member for 15 years... needless to say he lives by himself in what i consider an armed fortress that im afraid to knock on the door of sometimes..
However the unknowing aliens would have a not so pleasant surprise after they entered the first door of the entry way .... which reminds me... why isnt there the ability to deploy claymores in missions!!!! :-)
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Maybe a new rifle is order for use in local militias? You could even have various types of militias?
Asian militias would have Asiatic faces and use uniforms and weapons from their area.
In a similar fashion, a US milita would use something that looks like a M-16.
speaking of which, more faces might be cool...ya know..Agent Chao that doesn't have a pinch of Chinese blood is a bit daft.
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i really enjoy this idea....
there was a mission on my last test run of the game involving the ambush of a military convoy.... I was stunned to land on the mission and find 3 unarmed civilians running towards the aliens (another thing i know we already addressed)
Ive never been involved or seen a military convoy that at least SOMEONE wasnt armed with an assault rifle and most with their sidearms...
I like the police and civilians with baseball bats.... however some civilians.. or ex military are heavily armed themselves.. and the aliens might find themselves trying to abduct my old friend who was a team member for 15 years... needless to say he lives by himself in what i consider an armed fortress that im afraid to knock on the door of sometimes..
However the unknowing aliens would have a not so pleasant surprise after they entered the first door of the entry way .... which reminds me... why isnt there the ability to deploy claymores in missions!!!! :-)
Armed police and local military reacting to the aliens would be enough to make it really cool. It seems, from the odd behaviour of unarmed military people, that the developers have already begun something of a unique AI for military people. I read somewhere that these unarmed military people will pick up weapons and use them. We should try it next time we get the chance - toss one a pistol and see what he does.
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Maybe a new rifle is order for use in local militias? You could even have various types of militias?
Asian militias would have Asiatic faces and use uniforms and weapons from their area.
In a similar fashion, a US milita would use something that looks like a M-16.
There absolutely won't be any in-game weapons even remotely based on real world weapons. Besides, i think our generic assault rifle should be fine for them. At least it wasn't made in the 1940s... I guess we just have to hope the military team members don't all end up with useless close up weapons like shotguns.
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I dunno, a few local rednecks armed with shotguns and an odd hunting rifle might be a force to reckon with when they go after "wife-stealin', cow-mutilatin', fo sho illegal alien fellers"
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Ah, the livestock - that's something i miss from Enemy Unknown.
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there were a few cows on the farms that harversters happened to fall on. Not sure if we get points for saving the cows.
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You get influence increase with PETA if you do.
Now, seriously, can some code dev shed some more light on this? IT's so cool to fight with allies (and then gaurding them so they don't die)
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How about incapasitate the aliens, then have to fight back the locals who want to string the critter up on a nearby tree? On one hand, you need ET, on the other hand, you can't afford to get too confrontational with the locals.
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I dont see where that would be much use. Besides, that would probably have to be very complex
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Yeah...multiple factions would be nice, but let's not overdo it.
Alltouhg I have to admit that it would be extreemely fun to fight with your allies (local troops) as both of you try to rescue civilians from a massive alien onslaught!
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My idea was to have armed people (local forces) in the map (If there are people at all), and how the locals react to you is based on the nations relations yo PHALANX. You may be a target before the aliens ;)
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IMHO, there should be the following groups:
- aliens
- PHALANX
- local milita (military personel from the country you're inn)
- civilians
- armed civie resistance?
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nono dont make it complex. I think the SIMPLEST thing is to add "police".
This guy could be like an "alien" but he only shoots at other aliens. Such a thing would be quite easy to have implemented in code no? And it would be enough for a start already.
It will at least distract aliens (and he would be stronger than civilians, which often just run around stupidly anyway). He could even carry a very light armour.
And if he dies, we could pick up his weapon and kill aliens hehe
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they would be armed with the most basic of human weapons. I dont think they would pick up any other weapon, since they dont know how to use it. But otherwise, yeah. Basic armor, smarter than the average civie, but I still say that how they react to PHALANX troops is based on national favor towards the organization
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Yes, they can use simple guns. Just a tiny advantage compared to the helpless civilians that run around like crazy, and a bit armour,
even if it won't help them much anyway hehe
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In my opinion it makes absolutely no sense to make any dependencies on nation attitude. Why?
-we still are the same species- fighting for survival with some strange monsters armed with weapons we could not even dream about. You have two targets- a big green guy that has just scorched a mother with child, or a human commando who is trying to kill the grinnie?
-they are not happy with us, but the presence of phalanx on the battlefield can change it - its like "hey look- the phalanx finally realized that we are humans too and they moved their asses to help us!"
As for the equipment they should wield assault rifles/pistols and shotgun like rifles (the police often has such equipment) and a combat armor- its nothing special, some police troops wear it during riot or similar situations
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It would certainly be nice if the troops in the military installation mission were to actually fight back, if incompetently. ;) Ofcourse, you will need more aliens to counter that.
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well, to make the neutral troops behaviour natural they should stick together and try to hold position in most cases.
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I like how the Soldiers in the Military Convoy and Military Base like to stand in every doorway possible or surround my guys so they cant even move. Not for just one round either...until the mission ends or is restarted.
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Yeah...those guys are worse then useless...Hm...I think I figured out why humans were loosing to aliens so badly. Apparently, in the future the military is not allowed to carry weapon off-base. Hence, the unarmed military convoy. I also think the soldiers enlisted in the "living target" course.
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Frankly they don't seem to carry weapons in-base either. That must be one low budget operation...
I think that line about European military readiness being questioned (in the backstory) is more than justified.
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This is an old idea, but I agree... At least the military in the convoy should fight. I guess this is considered.
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It would be really nice to have local troops, it would give to any battlefield a more 'realistic' atmosphere.
In my opinion two different kind should be added:
- militarian for maps related
- police for urbans map.
- none of them in 'lost' places but just civilians or nobody. As it is actually.
Equipping them with standard weapons according to their corp., militarian have frag. grenade, not sure that police does (fumigene or flashbang may be ?).
What I wish to see would be thoses allies doing 'naturally' sometimes boring mistakes : launching grenade or a few bullets while you're not far from/behind target would keep sort of balance about gameplay. Giving thoses troops mostly bad stats (for cops, not really used to fight such a threat; a bit better for militarians then ?) would not make them great help but a little one, sometimes you could hate them, and they would anyway give a more realist touch on battlefield wich is more important point : I rather see dead militarian on attacked convoy map than thoses mushrooms seekers or.. whatever complex task they seems to complete :)
About their placement, hard work I guess ... they basically should join a non-confined placement while moving except if encouter occured. I would say that cops doesn't move but stay hidden waiting for something to shoot at, while militarian would be more aggressive.
Talking about that, interactions with scenes should be improved in this game :
we are not supposed to see aliens seen by civilians but if they could 'scream', run, .. it would add a dramatic atmosphere. Same with a dog model, not a moving one but just a chained one that could growl, etc when spotting an alien (like in any movie yep, while Terminator's getting close). Same with a bird model ?
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Hm....then dead miitary members would contribute to how pleased countries are with you?
After all, if in 10 mission in north america territory all milita on the map are killed, that faction would not be entirely pleased. Altouhg that factor (if any) should be low, since killing aliens and preventing civie casualties is the most important factor.
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My biggest concern with the inclusion of local defenders and potentially armed civilians would be keeping the equipment dropped by killed defenders separate from items PHALANX will loot upon victory...
My take on the setup would be three groups:
Civilians: Rare - Pistol.
Police: Common - Pistol; Uncommon - SMG; Rare - Shotgun.
Military: Common - Assault Rifle; Uncommon - Machine Gun; Rare - Rocket Launcher/Sniper Rifle.
The following model assumes that the number of aliens and their types are not set for each map, and can be re-evaluated while on the geoscape.
An alien incursion appears on the geoscape. Should PHALANX arrive within the first hour, they find the full alien force, civilians, and maybe the odd single or pair of cops. Should PHALANX fail to arrive within the hour, the aliens kill a handful of civilians. The second through fifth hours, police presence increases, civilian decreases. Each hour the aliens kill a slightly smaller number of civilians, with a low chance that police kill one alien. After five hours (less later in the game) the military arrives. Each hour a few civilians (well, in this case they are military, but still count as local non-PHALANX) are killed, with a moderate chance to kill 1-2 aliens. Should PHALANX arrive, they will find the map mostly vacant of civilians, with the exception of military units in groups of 2-4. Along these lines, the Country may also lose respect for PHALANX for each alien their military has to kill; "If PHALANX isn't going to help us, we need to invest in our own interests instead."
There's my proposal.
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sounds good.
Adda sniper to the list of equipment.
Also, all soldiers should have a pistol as a backup.
Maybe add a possibiltiy to have soldeirs get some other man-made equipment later (bolters), since you can sell (and later buy) some higher tech stuff.
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An alien incursion appears on the geoscape. Should PHALANX arrive within the first hour, they find the full alien force, civilians, and maybe the odd single or pair of cops. Should PHALANX fail to arrive within the hour, the aliens kill a handful of civilians. The second through fifth hours, police presence increases, civilian decreases. Each hour the aliens kill a slightly smaller number of civilians, with a low chance that police kill one alien. After five hours (less later in the game) the military arrives. Each hour a few civilians (well, in this case they are military, but still count as local non-PHALANX) are killed, with a moderate chance to kill 1-2 aliens. Should PHALANX arrive, they will find the map mostly vacant of civilians, with the exception of military units in groups of 2-4. Along these lines, the Country may also lose respect for PHALANX for each alien their military has to kill; "If PHALANX isn't going to help us, we need to invest in our own interests instead."
There's my proposal.
I'm thinking as well that a time dependance would be kind, could be represented on the geosphere by helicoptere coming from nearest big city/army camp.
Do they arrive on a crash site because of phalanx interception -> does phalanx warns authority about crashed ufo; may be player could choose ?
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I'd think the military response would mostly be for dealing with terror attacks, a reaction to the aliens slaughtering civilians and wiping out the local police resistance. For crashes, I'd suggest the chance/rate of alien-death be increased, and civilian death be reduced, since crash-aliens wouldn't usually be equipped or prepared to go on terror-rampages, and would already be injured/stunned from the impact. The military would probably arrive about as quickly, possibly faster having detected the dogfight and crash. Also, the "aliens-killed-without-PHALANX's-help" penalty should probably be smaller, considering PHALANX already did some of the work in shooting the ship down. Should the locals secure the site, though, they keep the craft and loot. Maybe if you piss that country off enough, they'll start using that gear against you.
As it is, the sniper rifle may be too strong; it may over-power the military units in-battle, especially in comparison to their poor performance on the geoscape. I think the following may create a system that would allow for the military to be perceived as using the more powerful end of military hardware, without actually having them easily overwhelming the aliens or, worse, out-performing PHALANX.
If civilian/local equipment can be easily excluded from combat spoils, I would actually suggest having a second set of equipment instead of the weapons available to PHALANX, but with lower damage or accuracy ratings. PHALANX gets the pick of the best equipment from participating nations, but the individual nations have their own, mass-produced, not-quite-the-best-there-is gear, especially when it comes to civilians and police. Thus the pistols, shotguns, rifles, etc., would be less effective than what PHALANX uses. The models of the weapons could just be recycled from the existing ones, so I don't think much work would be needed other than re-stating and making sure the locals draw from the right weapon sets.
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Wouldn't any military that sends it's soldiers after aliens, make sure they are decently equipped?
IIRC, All human stock weapons PHALANX uses are on the market. Thus, why wouldn't nations buy a supply and equip troops they plan on sending after aliens?
I don't know if it pays off to make more weapons, just for the civies/military.
EDIT:
Speaking of which, a sniper rifle would fall into the uncommon or rare category of weapons for the military.
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The different nation's general militaries are not going to have access to the same grade of equipment as PHALANX. Most will be using their own nation's standard issues, not the international best PHALANX can choose from. Now, having specially-armed troopers for dealing with the aliens would alleviate that to some extent, but that's what PHALANX is supposed to be. Of course, the more often PHALANX sits on its hands before responding, the more the country under attack will question this logic, and the more likely it is to withdraw and invest in its own program as a last-ditch. And if these nation-specific programs had much chance of success, PHALANX would be a waste of time.
I think it may not involve much work, mostly copy-paste. The models can be recycled, as can most of the stats. The damage value and accuracy value would be reduced. There would need to be some code in the battlescape preventing PHALANX from taking weapons dropped by locals back to base, but that would need to be done anyways if the locals are going to be armed at all. Hell, having a roster of local-specific weapons might even make it easier to keep track of what PHALANX can loot, and what they have no claim to.
I edited in the Sniper Rifle under Rare. It strikes me that the Rifle requires more trainings and ability to use than the Launcher, so it may be even less common. Then again, the AI will still suck with it, and players may get the impression the military hands them out to every "imma b a sn1pa!@!!1" who survives boot camp...
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The different nation's general militaries are not going to have access to the same grade of equipment as PHALANX. Most will be using their own nation's standard issues, not the international best PHALANX can choose from.
IIRC, all standard weapons PHLANAX has are on the open market (in the game world). I really don't see why those new super-countries couldn't afford a sizable supply of those. Not enough for the whole military, but enough to equip a lot of troops. And it would probably be exactly those troops that would be sent to fight aliens.
I think it may not involve much work, mostly copy-paste. The models can be recycled, as can most of the stats. The damage value and accuracy value would be reduced. There would need to be some code in the battlescape preventing PHALANX from taking weapons dropped by locals back to base, but that would need to be done anyways if the locals are going to be armed at all. Hell, having a roster of local-specific weapons might even make it easier to keep track of what PHALANX can loot, and what they have no claim to.
It's not a problem of new models - such simple guns are easy enough to make.
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"IIRC, all standard weapons PHLANAX has are on the open market (in the game world). I really don't see why those new super-countries couldn't afford a sizable supply of those."
I agree somewhat. In the past I complained that in the beginning of the game there was not enough equipment to buy in general, especially ammo. I think there should rarely be a shortage in ammo, especially not if one can pay for it, nice sums.
However on the other hand, I agree that "simple" soldiers should have worse armour + weapons than the elite soldiers we can control. It would look weird if soldiers are better at killing aliens than our trained warriors :)
"Not enough for the whole military, but enough to equip a lot of troops. And it would probably be exactly those troops that would be sent to fight aliens."
One problem is - is your military everywhere? How fast can they reach an area.
However, it brings me to another idea. The aliens could sometimes launch surprise attacks on military complexes. I think a decently equipped UFO could wreak quite some havoc
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You've convinced me to some extent... this 20XX future is supposedly a relatively peaceful one, correct? Most of the weapons strike me as somewhat aged, as if hardware had fallen by the wayside without much use for it; following that logic, manpower has also diminished to more security-level counts, armed for urban engagements (terror/criminal). The scaled-down military model would be smaller and more spread out, and thus slower and weaker in responding to alien threats. They could get better with time, as they ramp up their own agendas, if PHALANX is sufficiently successful at protecting them and keeping their infrastructures intact and uncontaminated.
I do still like the idea of differentiating a second set of weapons that PHALANX cannot loot from the battle, even if they are exact clones of the weapons. There may be other ways to accomplish that, I wouldn't know. Still, there is the advantage of tweaking the second set's damage and other characteristics to adjust them if the military is too effective against aliens, from a gameplay perspective. Cloning weapons and tweaking their stats would save time in brainstorming and modeling, even if it would not have taken a large time investment to model, skin, and stat new weapons to serve generally the same roles in NPC hands.
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I see no problem with giving local militia ordinary assault rifles and shotgun rifles or a combat armour we start with, as SWAT teams normally use it, and in 2084 its probable that terror attacks and crime will get decent equipment forcing the law enforcement to respond accordingly. The main thing should be the AI for local troops- its really unlikely that this man would rush to hunt aliens, instead they will rather guard positions and try to cover civilians without putting themselves to risk, so crouch, hide, cover, reaction fire, and try to group in one building.
I wont mention the military base or convoy that be definition has strong security team armed to teeth with a sufficient firepower to raze down a small village.
On the other hand, aliens killed be locals would also reduce founds from that nation, as there is no point in paying phalanx if our own soldiers do the job better.
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Since the PHALANX are supposed to be the best of the best, the local soldiers should probably also be fairly weak as far as basic stats are concerned, and they indeed should have inferior equipment. They should be able to hamper or even kill aliens if they get lucky, but PHALANX assistance will ofcourse remain critical.
(And, ofcourse, as I proposed in the other thread, the local forces of infested nations should attack PHALANX)