UFO:Alien Invasion
General => Discussion => Topic started by: brainy19 on March 30, 2008, 06:13:37 am
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One thing I like about games like XCOM is the technologies you get to research. I always liked to gain the technology advantage whenever playing any sort of strategy war game.
That's why I'm using this forum for people to suggest and present their thoughts for any new technologies that can be implemented in this game. One idea I had was the usage of antimatter in weapons. Some ideas the US military had with antimatter in real life was to put antimatter in bullets, making the target an exploding target. Also with antimatter, a nuke could be the size of a pinhead. I figured we could adopt these ideas for UFO:AI.
Another idea is the ability to upload new technologies for the game, like how some games can be updated with new goodies with XBOX Live. Anyone can suggest the idea for the technologies and model it and only if it gets approved, will it be uploadable into the game.
Any thoughts?
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what about the microwave emitter...
http://www.lattimore.id.au/2005/07/25/microwaving-adversaries/
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what about the microwave emitter...
Daddy likes! I have read of pistol-sized versions in cyberpunk literature. It wouldn't do gobs of damage to flesh [same penetration as the Particle Beam, however], but would absolutely ravage robots and electronic devices such as implants and powered armor.
I've got a few more ideas [developments of the Bolter]:
1) A gauss rifle firing needles with enough precision to replace the Sniper Rifle.
2) An electromag grenade launcher - progressive replacement for the 1970s tech grenade launcher; better range.
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Hmmm... the microwave emitter could be an advanced ranged flamethrower, in which enemies from a distance can experience the same type of damage (or more deadly) from the microwave emitter but from a larger rage than the flamethrower.
Also, for the gauss weapon and grenade launcher ideas, are you saying they are some sort of derivatives from the railgun weapon? If so, then the bolster rifle technology could be a prerequisite for these techs.
I wonder what admin has to say about this...
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I would be happy for them to just update the human weapons you start with to modern "real life" standards. IE more accurate Gls and RPGs, More accurate small arms and some new attachments/ammo for the weapons. Making them a bit more viable later in the game.
Examples.
None lethal rounds. Bean bag rounds for large bore weapons (shotguns, GLs)
AP rounds, Glaser etc http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armor-piercing_shot_and_shell (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Armor-piercing_shot_and_shell) / http://www.dakotaammo.net/products/glaser/glaser.htm (http://www.dakotaammo.net/products/glaser/glaser.htm)
Tasers http://www.taser.com/products/military/Pages/default.aspx (http://www.taser.com/products/military/Pages/default.aspx)
M203/Masterkey(shotgun) attachments http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KAC_Masterkey (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KAC_Masterkey)
Laser sights for "Close" weapons Flash light attachments for almost everything
Accuracy of GL is slightly off IMO its about as good and 1st gen smooth bore grenade launchers IE Blurp guns
Accuracy of the rocket launcher is terrible ATM (2.2). In most open maps, I can't hit the side of a building consistently with a 30+ skill. I completely understand the idea that they aren't terribly accurate. I have used the AT4 and RPG7 in my military days and at 100 meters you can, with little skill, hit a 3 man bunker (roughly 10'/8'/4') most times. AT4 being the more accurate of the 2 IMO.
You could do a research heading for each weapon type. IE improved laser or Improved SMG These would allow attachments, lower tu costs or just add a little more damage or accuracy. IMO we should never not have something to research. Even if it's a minor improvement overall. I am not paying for those lab coat wearing geeks to stand around and wait for the next alien discovery to spark an idea.
Some new toys should come from the Civ side as well. This game plays out over years so why not have the Civs build a few new toys and let us improve/adapt them for Phalanx use. Seems the R&D output of earth comes to a stand still once the aliens attack.
For weapons the trees would look like this.
SMG ------\-------------------------------------------\
Flashlight AP ammo(-3 dmg reduction due to armor)
\ \
Laser sight (+3 user Acc, +2 TU ) Glazer ammo (+5 dmg)
\ \
Recoil suppression (-1 TU ) ???
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Bullpup config (+10 range, -0.2 spread)
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Improved SMG (+3 user Acc, -1 TU, -0.3 spread, +15 range)
\
???
That is at least 6 new researches for a single weapon. These are only examples and the Values could be completly different
I could easily make a mock up of the tree for each weapon type if the devs or anyone else is interested.
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Also, for the gauss weapon and grenade launcher ideas, are you saying they are some sort of derivatives from the railgun weapon? If so, then the bolster rifle technology could be a prerequisite for these techs.
That is exactly what i'm saying. Right now the Bolter is unceremoniously dumped as soon as you get the Laser Rifle. I think it would be good to take that technology and run with it.
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Vyper in response in to what you said, I believe admin doesn't want any real-world based weapons in this game. So if your ideas are to be made into the game, they would have to be changed and adopted which is why I'm hoping admin would get some posts in this topic, so we can see their response to this. I do agree with you though, customization would enhance this game and make it even more entertaining. Now that I think of it, we don't have that many light amplification equipment in the game...
And yes, the railgun weapon's appearance is way too short in the game. Plus, some aliens are weak against the railgun so some expansion in this technology would be a good idea.
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I don't want to put a wet blanket over this whole discussion, but I think your time would be better spent trying to come up with more alien weapons. The human arsenal is quite large enough as it is.
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i do agree with btaxis, however the microwave is still and always will be, cool....and i like the taser idea.
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@BTAxis:
The human arsenal is quite large enough as it is.
Sorry, but a few words on this:
I don't know if any other of the proposed human weapons will make it to the game. But:
The human arsenal might be large - but is it good?
Nearly all weapons are single old-fashioned weapons - despite all developments in reality. Some weapons are nearly the same ones the guys used in WW2 or Vietnam:
- rocket launcher: WW2, Bazooka
- grenade launcher: Vietnam
- machine gun: WW2
- SMG; WW2
- sniper rifle: WW2
The only two advanced weapons are the laser and the bolter - but each weapon is today in a bigger scale near reality (US Navy: railgun, US army: MTHEL/Skyguard).
And sorry, but the stun rod: We have tasers today - and sound weapons. Even the microwave weapons are near future.
Generally is the development going to highly integrated, more useful weapons than today. You can upgrade nearly every rifle-sized weapon with secondary weapons and optics - from the bayonet to flashlights, flamers and grenade launcher.
For example: The rocket launcher, grenade launcher, assault rifle, machine gun and SMG would be obsolete - by the OICW (weapons) (= HK XM29).
Even smart ammunition should work - despite alien ECM. There're several technologies that could provide that.
So, as I wrote:
IHMO is the human arsenal big - but it is not THAT hot.
cu
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Sure, but the thing is that we HAVE them. We DON'T have all the fancy hardware you guys are suggesting. Having it all would be nice, but who's going to make it? Model it? Texture it? Not me. You?
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I agree that there could be a couple of later stage HUMAN weapons. Projectile guns instead of those typical lasers, plasmas and beams.
As for alien weapons I'd like to see some creative use of different species. As it is now the human figure aliens share the same weapons and I didn't see much difference which one I was fighting against. For starters make the muscle alien even harder to take down, snake alien faster and stealthier and so on. Aliens could be a weapon themself. Like couldn't the snakeguy (sorry can't remember their name now) have a poison spit and snake bite for close range. The big muscle alien could use it's strenght to throw something unique, like an Alien style "facehuggers" at Phalanx, which would take control of your soldier. Exploding alien suicide race would be nasty, as would bigger than one square size super-hard-to-kill alien beasts.
Weapons.. aliens should be scary as hell. Now they are not because the zap weapons aren't that intimidating. Aliens don't have any high-explosive weapons (plasma fluid launcher = grenadelauncher which leaves the ground burning for couple of rounds), they don't have machineguns (very inaccurate super heavy 10-shot autofire for the muscle boys) nor sniper rifles (Long distance low-velocity living projectile, which would bite deeper and deeper in to the skin causing damage each turn until removed). Try to think other weapons than just the basic rifle shape items.
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If you want a fear-inducing heavy weapon, I would suggest a sort of super-heavy Particle Beam Cannon derivative (sort of halfway between a PBW and a Bolter/Railgun in terms of pseudo-science description) which fires a shotgun-like spread of electromagnetically-accelerated rod penetrators which also explode on impact (roughly a mini-grenade). The explosion could even be plasma-based. For balancing issues, it probably should be far to heavy to carry for just about every alien race available, so it seems to beg the inclusion of a large-size alien (2x2, or a biological counterpart to the human... [curses!] ..."Tanks"). Hell, for the alien's design, it could be a 4-6 legged creature with the weapon grafted right into its body. Any of the team's artists have a penchant for bio-mechanical abominations?
Pretender, with regards to the suicide alien, see X-COM: Apocalypse's Popper, it's a good example of that concept in practice.
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@BTAxis:
Sure, but the thing is that we HAVE them. We DON'T have all the fancy hardware you guys are suggesting. Having it all would be nice, but who's going to make it? Model it? Texture it? Not me. You?
Sure, you're right. And if I could code more than 'hello world', I'd help.
BTW: If there was the OICW insteat of 4 other weapons, this would have saved coding, modeling... ;)
Than this issue is simply a question of priorities?
To be inspired for scary alien weapons, I'd simply watch a few hundreds sci-fi movies. For me, the most frightening alien (technical) weapons are the Predator's arsenal (mostly the guided plasma cannon) and the super-worrier 'developed' by 'Anubis' (stargate).
As for alien armor is some kind of 'movement assistance' is mentioned, smart weapons are imho not to exotic. Or as powerful defence against projectiles, rockets and grenades, some kind of smart armor with miniaturized anti-projectiles (or plasma/laser/particle beams) might rock.
Some kind of 'intelligent dust' like you can see in 'Aon flux' might also be a frightening threat.
cu
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ding....idea.....well idea refined, how about a rifle based poison weapon, a bit like in serenity near the end of the movie, kaylee gets hit by poison darts.
the darts would slowly reduce your health unless you get healed by a medpac....you would maybe have to reasearch that part of the med pack....so at first they would maybe be a death sentance, unless you finish the round before your guys die.
as an option to the same weapon how about paralysing darts....reducing your time units for a time, with a chance of unconsiousness, or making you immobile until healed.
also how about one that spits green goo that holds you in place as well.
any of these would allow aliens to capture humans, or they would make your soldiers sitting ducks for other alien weapon atttacks.
how about the needler as mentioned elsewhere, similar to the halo needler.
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BTW: If there was the OICW insteat of 4 other weapons, this would have saved coding, modeling... ;)
Than this issue is simply a question of priorities?
Quite a lot of the weapons we use now were done before mattn even took over the project (i.e. before the "death" of the first project). After that we got some new models, but not nearly as many as we had already. Don't think we just conjure these things out of our hats.
It's really a question of manpower, combined with the dev team's opinions. If there are people willing to make a model for their idea, then they have a shot at getting it included in the game. It is still subject to approval, and maybe the idea needs to be changed in some ways to fit in, but we're not really in a position to turn down art.
What is happening in this thread, though, is people throwing up lots of different ideas, and then looking at the devs, expecting them to make it happen. That tends not to work. We have enough ahead of us as it is, including modeling work.
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One type of "projectile" I haven't seen much of is a gun that shoots electricity. You want a fearsome alien weapon? A gun that shoots electricity and reflects to the surrounding soldiers, damaging multiple soldiers.
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A gun that shoots electricity and reflects to the surrounding soldiers, damaging multiple soldiers.
The reflection would have to relatively short ranged, right? Like it wouldn't work if the soldiers weren't adjacent to each other??
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@ BTAxis: is it okay if we 'brainstorm' together without the demand that you implement it for us? If one of us users gets excited enough about some of these ideas, it might motivate us to create the necessary graphics/sounds/scripts...
From the perspective of the player, it is okeh to have the most efficient tools for the job when the mood is serious. There might be times, however, when we might be willing to forgo the standard loadout for something unusual or 'fun'. Swords, anyone http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?topic=2230.15 (http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?topic=2230.15)? Therefore, there really is no such thing as too many weapons on the human side. The only issue here is whether a particular weapon is exciting enough to be used sometimes. If there is no interest in using it, THEN there's no point in including it. In either case, i wouldn't expect you to do more than take what we create and patch it in.
So in that spirit, let me offer another trial balloon: a bullet that has been variously called an Accelerator or GyRoc. The idea is that these large caliber bullets have a built in rocket motor. Therefore the primer would be much smaller than normal for minimal recoil. After leaving the barrel, the rocket causes the round to accelerate until impact or burnout. This would allow an Accelerator pistol or SMG to comfortably fire a 15 mm round which could in turn have a payload such as armor piercing or HE. An Accelerator rifle or MG could have a 20 mm round. The limitations would be weight and a somewhat lower accuracy. Plus i haven't yet decided whether this should belong in a new tech tree, or have it branch off something existing [Bolter, again?].
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So in that spirit, let me offer another trial balloon: a bullet that has been variously called an Accelerator or GyRoc. The idea is that these large caliber bullets have a built in rocket motor. Therefore the primer would be much smaller than normal for minimal recoil. After leaving the barrel, the rocket causes the round to accelerate until impact or burnout. This would allow an Accelerator pistol or SMG to comfortably fire a 15 mm round which could in turn have a payload such as armor piercing or HE. An Accelerator rifle or MG could have a 20 mm round. The limitations would be weight and a somewhat lower accuracy. Plus i haven't yet decided whether this should belong in a new tech tree, or have it branch off something existing [Bolter, again?].
I've suggested something similar (http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Equipment/Proposed/SRPMW), even made a draft model for such :-) (btw, it was my first experience with Wings 3D):
http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?topic=2242.0
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@Zorlen:
Great work!
May I suggest this: Install the ammo-clip under the weapon, or under/in the stock. Similar to the HK XM25 - which has exactly the same function - but using grenades instead of rockets.
@Doctor J:
Plus i haven't yet decided whether this should belong in a new tech tree, or have it branch off something existing [Bolter, again?].
Maybe: "Smart weapons"?
cu
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I've suggested something similar (http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Equipment/Proposed/SRPMW), even made a draft model for such :-) (btw, it was my first experience with Wings 3D):
http://ufoai.ninex.info/forum/index.php?topic=2242.0
Cool! Great minds think alike. 8) I like the box magazine version for a human weapon. But, mattheus in the other thread had an interesting idea. If we call it an alien technology and make the model more rounded and bulgy, we could make BTAxis happy along with having new toys for us!
So here's my idea for a tech tree: Rocket Carbine leads to Rocket Pistol and Rocket MG. Both the pistol and MG researched allow for research of the Rocket SMG.
I will go further to suggest that the 15 mm ammo have the HE and sabot tips, while the 20 mm rounds could have those as well as a gas round and/or a Stingray [highly charged capacitor which shocks the target].
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Can you suggest this to someone who knows who how model? Or if you know someone who does model, introduce them to this game and get more modelers in :)
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Actually, i've already downloaded Blender3D and will be giving it a whirl. First time for me, so don't hold your breath...
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Blender3D huh? I'll download that and give it a shot too.
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http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Modelling/Blender
http://ufoai.ninex.info/wiki/index.php/Modelling
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ok so just an idea
during research on the alien astro-navigation unit scientists came across head gear that is used as an interface to assist the pilot during flight, after some tampering and reverse engineering the same scientists realized that they could tune the head gear in to the same signal used by the spy satellites of the late 20th century as these satellites are so old the alien threat has ignored them. solders in the filed can use this headgear (at the cost of the astro-navigation unit) to see all units on the field of battle as long as they are in the open (old satellites cannot see underground or inside building)
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That is an interesting idea, but i don't think it will ever make it into the game. The whole basis of the game is horror and suspense. The more you can see, the less suspense there is. The only way to balance it would be to make it ridiculously expensive in credits or work hours.
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HOW BOUT AN EMP?
[attachment deleted by admin]
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So you have IR visors that can help detect enemies but according to the description will penalize your accuracy, how about including targeting goggles? Have them give you an accuracy bump at the cost of extra TU per shot?
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I was going to suggest a human-alien hybrid tech to give the Lasers a boost(unlimited/recharging ammo). I guess I could turn it around. Being the nerd I am, I dug up a old read on Tokamaks (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tokamak). We can't get it to work yet for a lack of knowledge working with plasma... The Aliens demonstrated a intimate knowledge of the subject.
If I remember correctly they're coming here for hosts, and new ideas. Why not turn the tables, say they see what we've been doing, and turn around and reinvent our technology. Some time after we've deploy lasers, and they deploy partical weapons, have them roll out a super laser. They look at our lasers, and seeing it's a good idea, but we don't have the power to get it to work well. They do, they turn around replace the D-F carriage with something alien. Repaint the weapons blue, maybe tweak the model a little.
It is just a modification of our existing design so a supper stat boost isn't needed. Just turn around and say they made it more durable with local materials, and made the chemical laser a conventional one, and gave it a more powerful recharging power source, a mini-Tokamak. That way whatever changes given could be balanced by saying the new ammo type, wile recharging, burns out and cools off weather it's used or not after a few hours once started(a mission.).
Seeing the Aliens increased strength, maybe make a Alien laser cannon, only slightly less powerful then our craft mounted version, but man usesable. Able to cut a large swatch of destruction at range, but using the same power cell as the lesser versions. Using so much power to fire from a cell designed for something smaller, it has to recharge over a turn or two to fire again.
Edit:
Something else I forgot, Alien chemical grenades. Moddling, which I can't do right now(Doh!) wouldn't be more then a clear ball that splatters. They seem to like high energy physics, but what about chemical warfare? Why not a corrosive that is oxygen activated that sticks and super heats them.
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Yeah how about Gas Grenades that can be used with the Grenade Launcher?
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I don't want to put a wet blanket over this whole discussion, but I think your time would be better spent trying to come up with more alien weapons. The human arsenal is quite large enough as it is.
I agree. And what is needed is not just another plasma/particle weapon (we have p. pistol, p. gun, p. cannon, p. grenade, p. blade, p. cigar lighter and p. depilatory, lets make some more plasma). We need some new weapon principal ideas. I came up with two. If anyone of you is familiar with them, yes I stole them ::)
Fusion gun
The principal of this gun is subatomic thermal excitation of its target. It fires no projectile in any way (solid slug or plasma) just focused beam of subatomic energy that is invisible to human eye. But if the beam is invisible, its passing is not. Particles of atmosphere are excitated to such energetic levels where they emit very intense radiation, even visible light. This is coupled with a hissing sound. Upon contact, the same happens with the target, which can be heated to several thousands of degrees. This leads to armoured targets being literally melted and evaporated, while living tissue is just burned. This has earned the gun its nickname meltagun or cooker. Despite its high power against vehicles and highly armoured targets, this weapon is very limited in its range due to the dissipation of the beam when passing through the atmosphere.
Induction gun
This weapon is basically a linear asynchronous induction generator. The way it works is unique among weapons previously encountered. It doesn't fire any form of solid projectile or energetic beam. Rather, the target is pulled into the gun. This is achieved by inducing strong magnetic dipoles in the particles of the target, and subsequent "switching of polarity" in the gun. The target is then gradually stripped to its constituent atoms, which are puled into the gun by strong magnetic force. What is most horrifying about this weapon is the speed of the whole process. It can chew thought living tissue, armour, even ferrocrete and all that within seconds. As such, body armour offers virtually no protection against this weapon, as it would just slow down the process by milliseconds.
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I think its awesome that this forum provides so much exercise for everyones' imagination. Here are some of my weapon ideas. I think the aliens (unless the background forbids it) would use alien analogues of human weapons such as grenade launchers, missile launchers, and the flame thrower.
1.Launcher weapons: If an alien grenade launcher sounds weird (your weird!) then how about a rocket/missile launcher?
2.Grenades/Explosives: The aliens would probably have gas weapons of their own. What would be really sick would be a gas grenade/rocket/shell that acted as smoke and was dangerous to walk through as well basically an area denial weapon like the incendiary weapons.
3.Sprayers: Or if not gas weapons, biological weapons such as chemical sprayers, virus grenades, that sort of thing. No I don't mean killer water pistols!
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They say that some things can affect emotions, like perfumes can make you happy or dog poop makes you feel sick. How about a weapon that deals morale damage? I've only had my men lose morale once, but i can say it was pretty devastating, and it's much more frightening to me then (Gasp) another plasma cannon. Although hearing or seeing particle weapons makes me grimace. (AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH PARTICLE WEAPONS RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!)
Back to the point. Perhaps a sound emitter, kind of like a dog whistle that damages morale, or something along that line?
Also, The really heavy armors use servos to allow movement right? So what about maybe an EMP bomb of some sort that disables servos. The alien would be pretty much incapacitated.
And definitely, I think it's pretty obvious that the gas grenade should be put on the grenade launcher because IT IS AWESOME!
Seriously though, i've set up all my men to carry gas grenades and one other, because most gas grenades knock them out the first time, and if you screw up, it's not like the guy's dead, it's just he's out of the way. I use them if i can't get my guy healed, i just gas myself to save him if i really like his stats.
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How about an ion weapon, a combination of laser and plasma technology?
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Ion weapon would be the particle tech tree. Ions = charged particles.
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how about a disk launcher like in tribes....for an alien grenaded launcher.
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Disc launcher has been suggested and rejected before.
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How about mini missile launchers?
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We've already got the RPG launcher, and we might well get an upgrade for it.
No waypoint-guided stuff, though.
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We've already got the RPG launcher, and we might well get an upgrade for it.
No waypoint-guided stuff, though.
Upgrade that biatch to a mini rocket/missile launcher yo!!